Affordable Care Act

[Taz]

Reduce your military spending to say the average of the next 5 top spenders, and everyone could probably get free health care.

Non sequitur. There is no "free".

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Non sequitur. There is no "free".

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Indeed, but roads and other infrastructure are necessary to the functioning of this society. Aiding citizens is one thing - providing them with welfare as a default lifestyle is however detrimental to this society, and there is certainly no legitimate reason to take money from citizens by force and pass it to illegal aliens who've invaded simply because they know you people will do just that in order to one day secure a guaranteed majority.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Non sequitur. There is no "free".

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

 

[Taz]

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

Covering everyone as a free public service.

 

[doctordog]

Due to life choices and circumstances we are losing our employer provided health care. So I went to the healthcare.gov web site to look for plans. What I found is this.

1. The web site is extremely easy to use.

2. The cost, while high, is not nearly as expensive as it was when I looked into it when ACA became the law of the land.

3. Big penalty for making money and not having employer provided coverage.

Here is an example of what I found for 1 person first making 50,000 the second making 25000. Which seems to me to be affordable considering that car insurance might cost as much.

What I don't like is that the cost should be the same for everyone since it is required by the government to purchase. In other words make it a tax deduction, if it is not already.

What I am going to call about is if I can sign up the wife for one plan, using her income. And one plan for me using mine. I don't think this is the case.

Not cheap, but not as expensive as I thought and anyone should be able to navigate the site.

Still, employer sponsored health care is far cheaper and better.

View attachment 47568

View attachment 47569

the deductible and out of pocket are cheaper than my employer plan, however I checked my state and my premium was $1200/month but we are in the $150k bracket

 

[Sun Devil 92]

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

Covering everyone as a free public service.

Sorry, but that isn't what happens in other countries.

That is why private health insurance is still offered in places like Canada and Britain.

Covering everyone for everything is simply not possible.

But thank you for the definition.

I expected this to be the case...just wanted to make sure.

 

[Freewill]

Due to life choices and circumstances we are losing our employer provided health care. So I went to the healthcare.gov web site to look for plans. What I found is this.

1. The web site is extremely easy to use.

2. The cost, while high, is not nearly as expensive as it was when I looked into it when ACA became the law of the land.

3. Big penalty for making money and not having employer provided coverage.

Here is an example of what I found for 1 person first making 50,000 the second making 25000. Which seems to me to be affordable considering that car insurance might cost as much.

What I don't like is that the cost should be the same for everyone since it is required by the government to purchase. In other words make it a tax deduction, if it is not already.

What I am going to call about is if I can sign up the wife for one plan, using her income. And one plan for me using mine. I don't think this is the case.

Not cheap, but not as expensive as I thought and anyone should be able to navigate the site.

Still, employer sponsored health care is far cheaper and better.

View attachment 47568

View attachment 47569

the deductible and out of pocket are cheaper than my employer plan, however I checked my state and my premium was $1200/month but we are in the $150k bracket

that must be a gold or platinum plan.

 

[doctordog]

Due to life choices and circumstances we are losing our employer provided health care. So I went to the healthcare.gov web site to look for plans. What I found is this.

1. The web site is extremely easy to use.

2. The cost, while high, is not nearly as expensive as it was when I looked into it when ACA became the law of the land.

3. Big penalty for making money and not having employer provided coverage.

Here is an example of what I found for 1 person first making 50,000 the second making 25000. Which seems to me to be affordable considering that car insurance might cost as much.

What I don't like is that the cost should be the same for everyone since it is required by the government to purchase. In other words make it a tax deduction, if it is not already.

What I am going to call about is if I can sign up the wife for one plan, using her income. And one plan for me using mine. I don't think this is the case.

Not cheap, but not as expensive as I thought and anyone should be able to navigate the site.

Still, employer sponsored health care is far cheaper and better.

View attachment 47568

View attachment 47569

the deductible and out of pocket are cheaper than my employer plan, however I checked my state and my premium was $1200/month but we are in the $150k bracket

that must be a gold or platinum plan.

No it was a silver

 

[Andylusion]

Non sequitur. There is no "free".

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

 

[Andylusion]

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

Covering everyone as a free public service.

And we can end up like Greece. Not a good plan.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah. And who has done it "right"?

Lots of countries, England, Canada, the Scandinavian ones...

Brit health care is terrible. Canadians sued their government to get pay for service care, and routinely come to America to pay for better care. Scandinavia varies, is often no better.

All are models to not follow.

All are models that are better than the US.

By what measure?

Wait times are years in those countries. You'd rather wait years, instead of a few days?

Survival rates are lower in those countries. You'd rather have a higher chance of dying?

Care is simply denied in those countries. You'd rather be told 'sucks to be you, good luck'?

Taxes are almost double in those countries. You'd rather save a few hundred in insurance premiums, and lose thousands in income, capital gains, and sales tax?

Name one area, one measurement, in which they are better?

You have no idea what you are talking about. I've been to Europe. Been to their hospitals. It's not the same. Not even close.

I'm not even going to argue with you, you base your arguments on falseties. Thinking that the US system is the best is just absurd.

I made specific claims. Can you disprove them... or not?

Sorry, but I base my opinion on fact. You only say "that's absurd" as if that is evidence.

Can I use your 'debate tactic' too? Ok, You are absurd, so I am not going to argue with you. There, now you are absurd too. Now what?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

"Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group."

Take some time to think ebola about that typhoid statement, and AIDS I am sure that you will polio have a change of heart. Unless, that is, you think people who have the means to support for profit health care are immune to such silly diseases.

 

[Andylusion]

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

"Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group."

Take some time to think ebola about that typhoid statement, and AIDS I am sure that you will polio have a change of heart. Unless, that is, you think people who have the means to support for profit health care are immune to such silly diseases.

The elimination of Polio was done on a capitalist free-market system. It wasn't paid for by government.

One of the reasons that we constantly have vaccine shortages, is because it's not legal to make a profit on vaccines, and it takes millions of dollars to get approval for a vaccines. It used to take 10 years of testing to even get a vaccine sent for approval. I've heard that has been reduced a bit, but it is still millions of dollars.

Point being, government intervention has been more of a hindrance, than a benefit to health care.

I love how in 1990s, we increased taxes on health care research, and now everyone is pushing for more government research grants for health care. How dumb does the left have to be, to think this makes sense. Let's jack up taxes on the companies doing health care research, and then when research budgets shrink, give out government grants to make up for the money government taxed away.

Brilliant.....

 

[LoneLaugher]

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

"Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group."

Take some time to think ebola about that typhoid statement, and AIDS I am sure that you will polio have a change of heart. Unless, that is, you think people who have the means to support for profit health care are immune to such silly diseases.

The elimination of Polio was done on a capitalist free-market system. It wasn't paid for by government.

One of the reasons that we constantly have vaccine shortages, is because it's not legal to make a profit on vaccines, and it takes millions of dollars to get approval for a vaccines. It used to take 10 years of testing to even get a vaccine sent for approval. I've heard that has been reduced a bit, but it is still millions of dollars.

Point being, government intervention has been more of a hindrance, than a benefit to health care.

I love how in 1990s, we increased taxes on health care research, and now everyone is pushing for more government research grants for health care. How dumb does the left have to be, to think this makes sense. Let's jack up taxes on the companies doing health care research, and then when research budgets shrink, give out government grants to make up for the money government taxed away.

Brilliant.....

Fool. You want your kids to play with a kid with some undiagnosed disease at the local Chuck e Cheese?

The only way for you to be sure to avoid that is to provide preventive care to people regardless of ability to pay.

In the end....this approach saves money and strengthens our nation.

Get used to it......the good guys are winning.

 

[Freewill]

Due to life choices and circumstances we are losing our employer provided health care. So I went to the healthcare.gov web site to look for plans. What I found is this.

1. The web site is extremely easy to use.

2. The cost, while high, is not nearly as expensive as it was when I looked into it when ACA became the law of the land.

3. Big penalty for making money and not having employer provided coverage.

Here is an example of what I found for 1 person first making 50,000 the second making 25000. Which seems to me to be affordable considering that car insurance might cost as much.

What I don't like is that the cost should be the same for everyone since it is required by the government to purchase. In other words make it a tax deduction, if it is not already.

What I am going to call about is if I can sign up the wife for one plan, using her income. And one plan for me using mine. I don't think this is the case.

Not cheap, but not as expensive as I thought and anyone should be able to navigate the site.

Still, employer sponsored health care is far cheaper and better.

View attachment 47568

View attachment 47569

the deductible and out of pocket are cheaper than my employer plan, however I checked my state and my premium was $1200/month but we are in the $150k bracket

that must be a gold or platinum plan.

No it was a silver

Then you are a big family?

 

[Taz]

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

Covering everyone as a free public service.

Sorry, but that isn't what happens in other countries.

That is why private health insurance is still offered in places like Canada and Britain.

Covering everyone for everything is simply not possible.

But thank you for the definition.

I expected this to be the case...just wanted to make sure.

Everyone is covered, private insurance is for rich people, politicians, unions... But EVERYONE is covered. And NO ONE has to pay a co-pay.

 

[Taz]

Free to the user, just go to Canada. Other countries as well.

"Free to the user" is someone else's burden..

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what other countries do. Why should I?

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

"Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group." WWHHAAAATTTT!!!!!!!!!! Health care heals everyone. Doctors take an oath not to harm anyone. On the other hand, wars kill people, destroy countries, homes, families... Geez, get your brain in gear.

 

[Taz]

Because you could learn from others how to do it right. But I'm guessing that you're not too good at sharing.

Do it right ?

I'd love for someone to explain or define what "right" is ?

Taxing the crapp out of people ?

The US has enough tax revenue, you just prefer to spend a huge chunk of it attacking people for no reason instead of investing in your own people's health.

You didn't answer the question.

Define what it means to do it right.

Covering everyone as a free public service.

And we can end up like Greece. Not a good plan.

You already owe more money than Greece. WWAAAYYYY more!!!!

 

[Taz]

Lots of countries, England, Canada, the Scandinavian ones...

Brit health care is terrible. Canadians sued their government to get pay for service care, and routinely come to America to pay for better care. Scandinavia varies, is often no better.

All are models to not follow.

All are models that are better than the US.

By what measure?

Wait times are years in those countries. You'd rather wait years, instead of a few days?

Survival rates are lower in those countries. You'd rather have a higher chance of dying?

Care is simply denied in those countries. You'd rather be told 'sucks to be you, good luck'?

Taxes are almost double in those countries. You'd rather save a few hundred in insurance premiums, and lose thousands in income, capital gains, and sales tax?

Name one area, one measurement, in which they are better?

You have no idea what you are talking about. I've been to Europe. Been to their hospitals. It's not the same. Not even close.

I'm not even going to argue with you, you base your arguments on falseties. Thinking that the US system is the best is just absurd.

I made specific claims. Can you disprove them... or not?

Sorry, but I base my opinion on fact. You only say "that's absurd" as if that is evidence.

Can I use your 'debate tactic' too? Ok, You are absurd, so I am not going to argue with you. There, now you are absurd too. Now what?

You want one area where other countries are better? Canada hasn't instigated a war, ever. The US has been at war for nearly its WHOLE EXISTENCE! And just spent TRILLIONS attacking countries for no reason.

 

[Andylusion]

Theft is never "right", and if they are so right, why are they in even more trouble than we?

No, I'm not very good at involuntary sharing, at gunpoint.

You already share in all kinds of things: roads (some of which you help pay for but don't use), the military and their useless wars, supporting illegals... sharing to help your fellow citizens have access to health care seems to me to be a fundamental component of a just society.

Everyone in the country, from the poorest impoverished beggar, to the richest corporate CEO, benefits from roads, and the military.

Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group.

Moreover, the cost of the military and roads, is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of blowing trillions on trillions on health care.

"Health care harms one group, for the benefit of another group."

Take some time to think ebola about that typhoid statement, and AIDS I am sure that you will polio have a change of heart. Unless, that is, you think people who have the means to support for profit health care are immune to such silly diseases.

The elimination of Polio was done on a capitalist free-market system. It wasn't paid for by government.

One of the reasons that we constantly have vaccine shortages, is because it's not legal to make a profit on vaccines, and it takes millions of dollars to get approval for a vaccines. It used to take 10 years of testing to even get a vaccine sent for approval. I've heard that has been reduced a bit, but it is still millions of dollars.

Point being, government intervention has been more of a hindrance, than a benefit to health care.

I love how in 1990s, we increased taxes on health care research, and now everyone is pushing for more government research grants for health care. How dumb does the left have to be, to think this makes sense. Let's jack up taxes on the companies doing health care research, and then when research budgets shrink, give out government grants to make up for the money government taxed away.

Brilliant.....

Fool. You want your kids to play with a kid with some undiagnosed disease at the local Chuck e Cheese?

The only way for you to be sure to avoid that is to provide preventive care to people regardless of ability to pay.

In the end....this approach saves money and strengthens our nation.

Get used to it......the good guys are winning.

Nothing I said, changes anything I said.

Moreover, if you look at places like Greece, diseases that we haven't had to worry about in 70 years, are coming back. And unlike the US system, they have "free" health care. Which would you prefer?