Alright, I Don't Understand, What Is It That Conservatives Want?

[oreo]

What I find odd is that some conservatives on here like to lump all the liberals into one giant group based on a few of the nutjobs who respond while expecting the rest of us not to lump them into one group as well.

Ever stop to think that maybe the smarter liberals were just reading and taking to heart what was posted and that since this wasn't about liberals (until such a sweeping generalization was made) we just had nothing to add?

I have never seen a liberal that didn't have something to add? In my experience with liberals if they cannot address a question, they typically change the topic--or whirl around the topic without really addressing the issue.

 

[KittenKoder]

What I find odd is that some conservatives on here like to lump all the liberals into one giant group based on a few of the nutjobs who respond while expecting the rest of us not to lump them into one group as well.

Ever stop to think that maybe the smarter liberals were just reading and taking to heart what was posted and that since this wasn't about liberals (until such a sweeping generalization was made) we just had nothing to add?

I have never seen a liberal that didn't have something to add? In my experience with liberals if they cannot address a question, they typically change the topic--or whirl around the topic without really addressing the issue.

Then you have not been paying attention and know very few liberals.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ill some it up with one word: Freedom.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Ill some it up with one word: Freedom.

That'd be libertarians.

 

[DiamondDave]

Ill some it up with one word: Freedom.

That'd be libertarians.

Not inherently... it's not like libertarians want freedom and conservatives don't... hell, you could say the 'anarchists' want 'freedom' too... but that is not truly an accurate way to sum up their overall stance

 

[jillian]

Not inherently... it's not like libertarians want freedom and conservatives don't... hell, you could say the 'anarchists' want 'freedom' too... but that is not truly an accurate way to sum up their overall stance

I think the "freedoms" libertarians profess to want are closer to what social liberals want... no government interference in things like marriage, religion, recreational drug use, reproductive choice, sexuality between two consenting adults...

But I think in terms of big "G" government, libertarians are actually closer to anarchists than they are to republicans. (I won't say conservatives because to me, Barry Goldwater was a true conservative and he'd be appalled by today's republican party). They hate government and want it shrunk til it can be "drowned in the bathtub". Today's republican party seems to hate government except when it's in your bedroom.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

So, generally speaking, conservatives want more social regulations and less business regulations.

Libertarians want less social and business regulations.

And Liberals want more business regulations and less social regulations.

Is that generally accurate?

Who wants more business and social regulations? Politicians?

 

[DiamondDave]

Authoritarians?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

In all honesty, I don't think you really paid much mind to my responses, other than thanking me for dealing with point by point. I'm conservative, but not of a zealot religious bent. Not by a long shot.

Not true, Annie! I did take your responses in mind. In fact, your response were an important part of the revision I made to my perception of conservatives. I need to make another revision and rub out some of the Christianity stuff, partly because of yours and others' responses.

Perhaps I should begin with: It is too unrealistic to understand each and every conservative perspective, but in order to gain a greater understanding of the grander points of focus of the Conservative movement I've listed the following items. These are generalizations and therefore there are exceptions to each of these.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I find it fascinating to note that the conservatives here responded with serious, thoughtful analyses of the OP, and/or statements about their own personal take on conservatism, while the majority of liberals shot straight out of the box to the ad hominem attacks and rudeness. Very enlightening.

Yes you have discovered a profound truth. Only liberals use ad hominem attacks. The conservatives here never stoop to that level.

Imagine if we were on a thread about what liberal ideology is. I am sure the conservatives would be giving their thoughtful convictions and the liberals would be doing all of the ad hominem attacks.

Sorry, Sparky, but that's not what I said. I think what I was actually getting at is that only conservatives are willing to also use thoughtful, serious attempts to reach across the aisle. And I'll retract it just as soon as I see a liberal on this thread who doesn't react with kneejerk partisanship and/or defensiveness about the kneejerk partisanship.

And yes, I am sure that would be the reaction to a reverse thread, too.

 

[Sinatra]

So, generally speaking, conservatives want more social regulations and less business regulations.

Libertarians want less social and business regulations.

And Liberals want more business regulations and less social regulations.

Is that generally accurate?

Who wants more business and social regulations? Politicians?

NO.

You are once again locking in all conservatives with the Christian Right. That is as unfair as locking in all liberals with Gay Radicals.

True conservatives want freedom. Freedom of thought, expression, pursuits of happiness within reasonable bounds of responsibility. (and therein lies the rub of disputed defintion)

The real fight emerges between activist liberals who wish to alter the intent of the Constitution, who pervert freedom as something involving all-access sexual expression or the like, and hardcore Christian Right folks who pretend that sex does not exist. Add activist judges into the mix, or politicians who will attempt to overrule the vote of the people (California Prop 8) and you get dissention between the two.

That being said, the great many conservatives in this nation (who according to polls make up the majority) just want everyone to shut the hell up and leave them alone to get on with getting on in this life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, generally speaking, conservatives want more social regulations and less business regulations.

Libertarians want less social and business regulations.

And Liberals want more business regulations and less social regulations.

Is that generally accurate?

Who wants more business and social regulations? Politicians?

No. Conservatives do not want MORE social regulations. We want CORRECT social regulations. Government has a specific job to do, and when it has done that, it needs to stop.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, generally speaking, conservatives want more social regulations and less business regulations.

Libertarians want less social and business regulations.

And Liberals want more business regulations and less social regulations.

Is that generally accurate?

Who wants more business and social regulations? Politicians?

NO.

You are once again locking in all conservatives with the Christian Right. That is as unfair as locking in all liberals with Gay Radicals.

True conservatives want freedom. Freedom of thought, expression, pursuits of happiness within reasonable bounds of responsibility. (and therein lies the rub of disputed defintion)

The real fight emerges between activist liberals who wish to alter the intent of the Constitution, who pervert freedom as something involving all-access sexual expression or the like, and hardcore Christian Right folks who pretend that sex does not exist. Add activist judges into the mix, or politicians who will attempt to overrule the vote of the people (California Prop 8) and you get dissention between the two.

That being said, the great many conservatives in this nation (who according to polls make up the majority) just want everyone to shut the hell up and leave them alone to get on with getting on in this life.

The Christian Right doesn't want more social regulation, either. In many cases, what the Christian Right is fighting against is the left using the government to change the status quo, which means they're fighting against an increase in social regulation.

 

[Sinatra]

So, generally speaking, conservatives want more social regulations and less business regulations.

Libertarians want less social and business regulations.

And Liberals want more business regulations and less social regulations.

Is that generally accurate?

Who wants more business and social regulations? Politicians?

NO.

You are once again locking in all conservatives with the Christian Right. That is as unfair as locking in all liberals with Gay Radicals.

True conservatives want freedom. Freedom of thought, expression, pursuits of happiness within reasonable bounds of responsibility. (and therein lies the rub of disputed defintion)

The real fight emerges between activist liberals who wish to alter the intent of the Constitution, who pervert freedom as something involving all-access sexual expression or the like, and hardcore Christian Right folks who pretend that sex does not exist. Add activist judges into the mix, or politicians who will attempt to overrule the vote of the people (California Prop 8) and you get dissention between the two.

That being said, the great many conservatives in this nation (who according to polls make up the majority) just want everyone to shut the hell up and leave them alone to get on with getting on in this life.

The Christian Right doesn't want more social regulation, either. In many cases, what the Christian Right is fighting against is the left using the government to change the status quo, which means they're fighting against an increase in social regulation.

I hear what you are saying and agree with the general message, but there has been an increase in activist Christians as well in this country, as a backlash response to the activist liberals I assume, and that has caused a great deal of tension between the two, with big government clearly falling on the side of activist liberals in more recent years.

But yes, I do believe the majority of Christian Right are quite content to just be left alone -but the repeated intrusions of government get them/us/me quite angry...

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not inherently... it's not like libertarians want freedom and conservatives don't... hell, you could say the 'anarchists' want 'freedom' too... but that is not truly an accurate way to sum up their overall stance

I think the "freedoms" libertarians profess to want are closer to what social liberals want... no government interference in things like marriage, religion, recreational drug use, reproductive choice, sexuality between two consenting adults...

But I think in terms of big "G" government, libertarians are actually closer to anarchists than they are to republicans. (I won't say conservatives because to me, Barry Goldwater was a true conservative and he'd be appalled by today's republican party). They hate government and want it shrunk til it can be "drowned in the bathtub". Today's republican party seems to hate government except when it's in your bedroom.

You say Libertarians hate government, but would it be better if we loved government? You said before that government should be run by people that "respect government," but I still don't know what you meant by that. Why should I respect an organization that is allowed to get away with murder and theft?

 

[Sinatra]

Not inherently... it's not like libertarians want freedom and conservatives don't... hell, you could say the 'anarchists' want 'freedom' too... but that is not truly an accurate way to sum up their overall stance

I think the "freedoms" libertarians profess to want are closer to what social liberals want... no government interference in things like marriage, religion, recreational drug use, reproductive choice, sexuality between two consenting adults...

But I think in terms of big "G" government, libertarians are actually closer to anarchists than they are to republicans. (I won't say conservatives because to me, Barry Goldwater was a true conservative and he'd be appalled by today's republican party). They hate government and want it shrunk til it can be "drowned in the bathtub". Today's republican party seems to hate government except when it's in your bedroom.

You say Libertarians hate government, but would it be better if we loved government? You said before that government should be run by people that "respect government," but I still don't know what you meant by that. Why should I respect an organization that is allowed to get away with murder and theft?

Good luck getting a cogent response from that one.

She is an odd combination of overt emotion and an intellect left wanting....

 

[johnrocks]

A good conservative might believe....

That powers of Congress have been usurped by the President.
That the rights and liberties of American citizens have been violated.
That Regulated monopolies have displaced free enterprise.
That government has destroyed the morale of our people and made them dependent upon government.


Conservative in my opinion would/should

Should strive to maintain the American system of Constitutional and local self government, and to resist all attempts to impair the authority of the Supreme Court of the United States, the final protector of the rights of our citizens against the arbitrary encroachments of the legislative and executive branches of government. There can be no individual liberty without an independent judiciary.

Should fight to preserve the American system of free enterprise, private competition, and equality of opportunity, and to seek its constant betterment in the interests of all.

Removal of restrictions on production. Abandonment of all New Deal policies that raise production costs, increase the cost of living, and thereby restrict buying, reduce volume and prevent reemployment.

Encouragement instead of hindrance to legitimate business.

Withdrawal of government from competition with private payrolls.

Elimination of unnecessary and hampering regulations.

Adoption of such other policies as will furnish a chance for individual enterprise, industrial expansion, and the restoration of jobs.

Should advocate a sound currency to be preserved at all hazards.

We should promote and maintain peace by all honorable means not leading to foreign alliances or political commitments.

We should be obedient to the traditional foreign policy of America and to the repeatedly expressed will of the American people and not intervene in other nation's internal affairs, we should advocate getting out of organizations such as the UN,The World Bank and other organizations and treaties that threaten our sovernity.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

A good conservative might believe....

That powers of Congress have been usurped by the President.
That the rights and liberties of American citizens have been violated.
That Regulated monopolies have displaced free enterprise.
That government has destroyed the morale of our people and made them dependent upon government.


Conservative in my opinion would/should

Should strive to maintain the American system of Constitutional and local self government, and to resist all attempts to impair the authority of the Supreme Court of the United States, the final protector of the rights of our citizens against the arbitrary encroachments of the legislative and executive branches of government. There can be no individual liberty without an independent judiciary.

Should fight to preserve the American system of free enterprise, private competition, and equality of opportunity, and to seek its constant betterment in the interests of all.

Removal of restrictions on production. Abandonment of all New Deal policies that raise production costs, increase the cost of living, and thereby restrict buying, reduce volume and prevent reemployment.

Encouragement instead of hindrance to legitimate business.

Withdrawal of government from competition with private payrolls.

Elimination of unnecessary and hampering regulations.

Adoption of such other policies as will furnish a chance for individual enterprise, industrial expansion, and the restoration of jobs.

Should advocate a sound currency to be preserved at all hazards.

We should promote and maintain peace by all honorable means not leading to foreign alliances or political commitments.

We should be obedient to the traditional foreign policy of America and to the repeatedly expressed will of the American people and not intervene in other nation's internal affairs, we should advocate getting out of organizations such as the UN,The World Bank and other organizations and treaties that threaten our sovernity.

Thanks John. Very enlightening.

 

[johnrocks]

A good conservative might believe....

That powers of Congress have been usurped by the President.
That the rights and liberties of American citizens have been violated.
That Regulated monopolies have displaced free enterprise.
That government has destroyed the morale of our people and made them dependent upon government.


Conservative in my opinion would/should

Should strive to maintain the American system of Constitutional and local self government, and to resist all attempts to impair the authority of the Supreme Court of the United States, the final protector of the rights of our citizens against the arbitrary encroachments of the legislative and executive branches of government. There can be no individual liberty without an independent judiciary.

Should fight to preserve the American system of free enterprise, private competition, and equality of opportunity, and to seek its constant betterment in the interests of all.

Removal of restrictions on production. Abandonment of all New Deal policies that raise production costs, increase the cost of living, and thereby restrict buying, reduce volume and prevent reemployment.

Encouragement instead of hindrance to legitimate business.

Withdrawal of government from competition with private payrolls.

Elimination of unnecessary and hampering regulations.

Adoption of such other policies as will furnish a chance for individual enterprise, industrial expansion, and the restoration of jobs.

Should advocate a sound currency to be preserved at all hazards.

We should promote and maintain peace by all honorable means not leading to foreign alliances or political commitments.

We should be obedient to the traditional foreign policy of America and to the repeatedly expressed will of the American people and not intervene in other nation's internal affairs, we should advocate getting out of organizations such as the UN,The World Bank and other organizations and treaties that threaten our sovernity.

Thanks John. Very enlightening.

I did this on purpose thinking someone would call that crazy or libertarian but actually those are directly from past Republican Party platforms.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/platforms.php

 

[Coloradomtnman]

The Christian Right doesn't want more social regulation, either. In many cases, what the Christian Right is fighting against is the left using the government to change the status quo, which means they're fighting against an increase in social regulation.

You know, I don't know what social regulation that the right is fighting. That is, I'm ignorant of it. I'm not accusing you of lying or dramatizing the subject I really don't know of any.

From my perspective the Right wants MORE social regulation. As in instituting laws that ban or refuse the recognition of consenting adults marrying other consenting adults who love eachother (homosexual marriage). And limiting abortion.

Could you give me some examples of social regulations that the Right are opposed to? Thanks.