America First. R U Sure?

[Hum Dinger]

The level of cognitive dissonance of conservatives is incredible!

Globalism is, more than anything, business people doing business across national borders without government intervention.

Conservatives claim to want smaller government, less regulation and less government interference. They claim to be for free markets.

Isolationism, America first, protectionism are extremely contrary to these principals.

I get the idea that most conservatives, especially Trump supporters, are a completely mindless bunch that just parrots whatever they are told without thinking anything through.

 

[Doc1]

The level of cognitive dissonance of conservatives is incredible!

Globalism is, more than anything, business people doing business across national borders without government intervention.

Conservatives claim to want smaller government, less regulation and less government interference. They claim to be for free markets.

Isolationism, America first, protectionism are extremely contrary to these principals.

I get the idea that most conservatives, especially Trump supporters, are a completely mindless bunch that just parrots whatever they are told without thinking anything through.

Golly , what a well thought out and logical response. Let me boil it down for you. "Smart people voted for Hilary"?

 

[Virginia Mom]

"trumps unconstitutional attack on sanctuary cities"

May I ask you who lives in the sanctuary cities and who supports them? I don't mean to be stupid but I had a discussion with someone on here, and he said refugees were sponsored by mainly church organizations, no taxpayers money. My DIL is a legal immigrant and no one supported her but my son and myself.

Never mind, I looked it up and found illegal immigrants, and undocumented immigrants. Much cheaper not to come legally, the taxpayers will take care of you if you are illegal.

 

[Tom Horn]

The level of cognitive dissonance of conservatives is incredible!

Globalism is, more than anything, business people doing business across national borders without government intervention.

Conservatives claim to want smaller government, less regulation and less government interference. They claim to be for free markets.

Isolationism, America first, protectionism are extremely contrary to these principals.

I get the idea that most conservatives, especially Trump supporters, are a completely mindless bunch that just parrots whatever they are told without thinking anything through.

No, "globalism" is a marketplace where all parties are supposedly equal.....yeah, like the US market shouldn't have more influence than Brunei? Don't bring your juvenile insults in here without knowing what you're talking about, boy.

 

[TNHarley]

"trumps unconstitutional attack on sanctuary cities"

May I ask you who lives in the sanctuary cities and who supports them? I don't mean to be stupid but I had a discussion with someone on here, and he said refugees were sponsored by mainly church organizations, no taxpayers money. My DIL is a legal immigrant and no one supported her but my son and myself.

Never mind, I looked it up and found illegal immigrants, and undocumented immigrants. Much cheaper not to come legally, the taxpayers will take care of you if you are illegal.

I didn't even see that. Sorry!
Indeed, there is so much incentive to come here illegally.
While I admit almost half of illegals are here on expired time, the incentive keeps them here.
If we got rid of incentive, we wouldn't have to do much else. And we wouldn't have to spend tens of billions on a wall..

 

[TNHarley]

The level of cognitive dissonance of conservatives is incredible!

Globalism is, more than anything, business people doing business across national borders without government intervention.

Conservatives claim to want smaller government, less regulation and less government interference. They claim to be for free markets.

Isolationism, America first, protectionism are extremely contrary to these principals.

I get the idea that most conservatives, especially Trump supporters, are a completely mindless bunch that just parrots whatever they are told without thinking anything through.

Our trade deals aren't "free trade."
Sadly, I couldn't make out much more of that post from laughing so hard.

 

[OldLady]

For 70 years, we sustained an international system of open commerce and democratic alliances that has enabled America and the West to grow and thrive. Global leadership is what made America great. We abandon it at our peril.

I'll float a theory here that may just be wishful thinking:

Look at how Trump communicates, and what his followers seem to prefer: Very basic communication, simple, straight ahead thoughts, little nuance, very black & white. It may (yes, may) be that he's purposely leaving out nuance for them, but in actuality willing to use it behind closed doors. If that is the case, then these conversations he's having with world leaders may be more nuanced and comprehensive than we know.

An example is the very smart thing that British PM Theresa May did at the press conference after meeting with Trump - she went out of her way to look directly at him and point out that, during their meeting, he said he's "100% behind NATO", even though (a) he has never said that publicly, and (b) he never referred to it afterwards. That moment really boxed him in for future meetings with European leaders.

This is a terribly dangerous game he's playing, pandering to his crowd in public and being more serious behind the scenes. But, looking for a silver lining, I'm guessing he's not being this simplistic when it matters. Uh, hopefully.
.

Sounds to me like you're searching for something you want to hear.
Billionaires have to be great communicators. Great communicators read their listeners and speak with total clarity. Removing all potential blur from vocabulary is actually an art form. A simplistic vocabulary may sound, well, simple to many who prefer to be wow'd by intellectual word play. The problem is communication barriers are built between the speaker and the people who just want to hear it straight with no spin. Trump is extremely effective in getting through to his supporters.
I'll bet the conversation with the Prime Minister went like this:
"We are 100% behind NATO if X Y and Z issues that we have can be modified to become better fit for American's."
The Prime Minister responded with:
"I'm sure your requested modifications can be made."

THE END!

I hope you're right.

 

[Virginia Mom]

"trumps unconstitutional attack on sanctuary cities"

May I ask you who lives in the sanctuary cities and who supports them? I don't mean to be stupid but I had a discussion with someone on here, and he said refugees were sponsored by mainly church organizations, no taxpayers money. My DIL is a legal immigrant and no one supported her but my son and myself.

Never mind, I looked it up and found illegal immigrants, and undocumented immigrants. Much cheaper not to come legally, the taxpayers will take care of you if you are illegal.

I didn't even see that. Sorry!
Indeed, there is so much incentive to come here illegally.
While I admit almost half of illegals are here on expired time, the incentive keeps them here.
If we got rid of incentive, we wouldn't have to do much else. And we wouldn't have to spend tens of billions on a wall..

That's ok, I should have looked it up before I asked. We told my son's girlfriend, now wife, that it would have been a lot easier and cheaper if she had just crawled under a fence somewhere to get here. We were just kidding of course,much better to do it right and legal way. Thanks

 

[Hum Dinger]

The level of cognitive dissonance of conservatives is incredible!

Globalism is, more than anything, business people doing business across national borders without government intervention.

Conservatives claim to want smaller government, less regulation and less government interference. They claim to be for free markets.

Isolationism, America first, protectionism are extremely contrary to these principals.

I get the idea that most conservatives, especially Trump supporters, are a completely mindless bunch that just parrots whatever they are told without thinking anything through.

No, "globalism" is a marketplace where all parties are supposedly equal.....yeah, like the US market shouldn't have more influence than Brunei? Don't bring your juvenile insults in here without knowing what you're talking about, boy.

So what your saying is that to protect 'free markets', we need government protectionist policies?

Do you seriously think that the free trade agreements devalued the American market? Guess again! It opened the American market up to foreign made goods.

NAFTA and TPP were free trade agreements, they weren't preferential. It's the difference market value of labor between the countries that gave other countries the advantage, not the trade agreements themselves.

 

[Tom Horn]

So what your saying is that to protect 'free markets', we need government protectionist policies?

Do you seriously think that the free trade agreements devalued the American market? Guess again! It opened the American market up to foreign made goods.

NAFTA and TPP were free trade agreements, they weren't preferential. It's the difference market value of labor between the countries that gave other countries the advantage, not the trade agreements themselves.

No $3 hammer is worth an American losing his job to some asian sweatshop slave.....capiche? If you knew anything about economics you'd know TPP would have ended the industrial capacity of America to defend herself. You can stick the WTO where the sun don't shine.

 

[OldLady]

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

Russia is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

It is not a threat to Europe, and certainly not US.

It was so important to you that they like us. They like Trump better than Hillary. That was a selling point you said. But now England, Mexico, Canada and Germany don't like Trump. Do you care?

That's the way it has been for months now. Its nothing new. So what makes you think it would matter NOW?

You mean you've been a hypocrite for months? I agree. Yea, it only matters when we vote in 2018 and 2020. Right now I'm just armchair qb'ing. You guys know all about that.

What makes me a hypocrite?
First off, fuck you.
Second, I don't give two shits who don't like us. I don't like that trump is an embarrassment(he says some stupid shit) but I dont care who doesn't like it. Fuck everyone else. We need to focus on us. Our country is slowly going down the drain and all some people care about is "image". Hollywood have severely warped pathetic little brains. Its like everything is a popularity contest. Grow up.
Third, I was right and your ignorant bullshit doesn't change anything.

Second, I don't give two shits who don't like us...Fuck everyone else.
This is what worries me. To me it seems misplaced arrogance. However, if our President is not actually promoting that "policy," and is only making sure our interests are served, we will be alright. Right now, he is just making pronouncements. When we see how his attitude shapes policy, that is when it will matter. No one expects him to get up and describe everything in detail before negotiations. I guess it's the wondering that's so scary. What will it look like?

 

[Hum Dinger]

So what your saying is that to protect 'free markets', we need government protectionist policies?

Do you seriously think that the free trade agreements devalued the American market? Guess again! It opened the American market up to foreign made goods.

NAFTA and TPP were free trade agreements, they weren't preferential. It's the difference market value of labor between the countries that gave other countries the advantage, not the trade agreements themselves.

No $3 hammer is worth an American losing his job to some asian sweatshop slave.....capiche? If you knew anything about economics you'd know TPP would have ended the industrial capacity of America to defend herself. You can stick the WOT where the sun don't shine.

So are you suggesting unionization in all countries before we have a free trade agreement? Conservatives tend to be extremely anti-union.

More cognitive dissonance?

 

[Tom Horn]

This is what worries me. To me it seems misplaced arrogance. However, if our President is not actually promoting that "policy," and is only making sure our interests are served, we will be alright. Right now, he is just making pronouncements. When we see how his attitude shapes policy, that is when it will matter. No one expects him to get up and describe everything in detail before negotiations. I guess it's the wondering that's so scary. What will it look like?

It's only "scary" because it's actually happening, not just the usual talk, "we'll look into it" jive. Trump is tackling issues as a CEO...action-oriented, results demanded. Finally we have an American standing up for America instead of letting us remain the punching bag for the rest of the world. If we are to remain a super power we have to get RICH again and we can only do that by telling the rest of the world we're taking care of our own for a few years...adios and kiss our ass.

 

[TNHarley]

Russia is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

It is not a threat to Europe, and certainly not US.

It was so important to you that they like us. They like Trump better than Hillary. That was a selling point you said. But now England, Mexico, Canada and Germany don't like Trump. Do you care?

That's the way it has been for months now. Its nothing new. So what makes you think it would matter NOW?

You mean you've been a hypocrite for months? I agree. Yea, it only matters when we vote in 2018 and 2020. Right now I'm just armchair qb'ing. You guys know all about that.

What makes me a hypocrite?
First off, fuck you.
Second, I don't give two shits who don't like us. I don't like that trump is an embarrassment(he says some stupid shit) but I dont care who doesn't like it. Fuck everyone else. We need to focus on us. Our country is slowly going down the drain and all some people care about is "image". Hollywood have severely warped pathetic little brains. Its like everything is a popularity contest. Grow up.
Third, I was right and your ignorant bullshit doesn't change anything.

Second, I don't give two shits who don't like us...Fuck everyone else.
This is what worries me. To me it seems misplaced arrogance. However, if our President is not actually promoting that "policy," and is only making sure our interests are served, we will be alright. Right now, he is just making pronouncements. When we see how his attitude shapes policy, that is when it will matter. No one expects him to get up and describe everything in detail before negotiations. I guess it's the wondering that's so scary. What will it look like?

World image is something I don't care about. We are just another country. Just like every other one.
We have been putting Americans at the back of the bus for too long.

 

[Tom Horn]

So are you suggesting unionization in all countries before we have a free trade agreement? Conservatives tend to be extremely anti-union.

More cognitive dissonance?

Indeed, MORON...we were promised the maquiladoras on the mehican border would be environmentally-friendly and unionized to pass NAFTA....it never happened. In your brave new world, companies are chasing the cheapest labor dollar and with cheap fuel will continue to ignore transportation costs. We don't have to compete with sweatshop labor while China devalues their currency and won't take in our exports. Rigged game, stupid game clowns like you think are just fine.....That horseshit is yesterday's news....don't like it, who cares?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Look at how Trump communicates, and what his followers seem to prefer: Very basic communication, simple, straight ahead thoughts, little nuance, very black & white. It may (yes, may) be that he's purposely leaving out nuance for them, but in actuality willing to use it behind closed doors.

Assuming that's so, just what does that say about his supporters and how Trump perceives their ability to grasp complex concepts? Three "d" words: deceitfulness, duplicity and disdain.

If that is the case, then these conversations he's having with world leaders may be more nuanced and comprehensive than we know.

Well, there's candor and transparency for the American people.

she went out of her way to look directly at him and point out that, during their meeting, he said he's "100% behind NATO", even though (a) he has never said that publicly, and (b) he never referred to it afterwards.

That's right. Let U.S. voters learn about their country's policy from other nation's leaders before they hear it from the President of the United States. Seems to me that Trump letting her be the first to make that assertion leaves him the position of merely saying, "That's what she said, not what I said." Considered in yet another way, it may even be that she wasn't telling him what position he was going to take, as opposed to reiterating something he said to her?

That moment really boxed him in for future meetings with European leaders.

The matter of the U.S.' support for NATO is a matter for which there should not be any question of the uniformity of strategy among the various NATO nations.

This is a terribly dangerous game he's playing, pandering to his crowd in public and being more serious behind the scenes.

Yet another manifestation of the man's failure to take the fully scope and role of the President seriously. Integrity means nothing to that man.

 

[Hum Dinger]

This is what worries me. To me it seems misplaced arrogance. However, if our President is not actually promoting that "policy," and is only making sure our interests are served, we will be alright. Right now, he is just making pronouncements. When we see how his attitude shapes policy, that is when it will matter. No one expects him to get up and describe everything in detail before negotiations. I guess it's the wondering that's so scary. What will it look like?

It's only "scary" because it's actually happening, not just the usual talk, "we'll look into it" jive. Trump is tackling issues as a CEO...action-oriented, results demanded. Finally we have an American standing up for America instead of letting us remain the punching bag for the rest of the world. If we are to remain a super power we have to get RICH again and we can only do that by telling the rest of the world we're taking care of our own for a few years...adios and kiss our ass.

Yes, Trump is trying to run the government like a CEO. But CEOs are tyrants in their companies. They are in their position because of ownership, not business acumen. They are as likely to run their companies into to ground as anything else. They layoff thousands of working people without a second thought - and it's those people that pay for the incompetence of CEOs. Did the CEOs at GM have a second though about moving factories to Mexico?

Bankruptcy is not an acceptable option for government.

BTW - America never stopped being RICH - all the money just went to the CEOs while American workers got screwed. Is that your idea of 'Making American Great'?

 

[Tom Horn]

Yes, Trump is trying to run the government like a CEO. But CEOs are tyrants in their companies. They are in their position because of ownership, not business acumen. They are as likely to run their companies into to ground as anything else. They layoff thousands of working people without a second thought - and it's those people that pay for the incompetence of CEOs. Did the CEOs at GM have a second though about moving factories to Mexico?

Bankruptcy is not an acceptable option for government.

BTW - America never stopped being RICH - all the money just went to the CEOs while American workers got screwed. Is that your idea of 'Making American Great'?

This is a comedy bit, right?

 

[Hum Dinger]

So are you suggesting unionization in all countries before we have a free trade agreement? Conservatives tend to be extremely anti-union.

More cognitive dissonance?

Indeed, MORON...we were promised the maquiladoras on the mehican border would be environmentally-friendly and unionized to pass NAFTA....it never happened. In your brave new world, companies are chasing the cheapest labor dollar and with cheap fuel will continue to ignore transportation costs. We don't have to compete with sweatshop labor while China devalues their currency and won't take in our exports. Rigged game, stupid game clowns like you think are just fine.....That horseshit is yesterday's news....don't like it, who cares?

Not only do you suffer from cognitive dissonance, but poor reading comprehension as well.

My argument was to point out the logical disconnect in conservative thinking, not to argue in favor of free trade agreements.

I got news for you. LIBERALS were against NAFTA. Conservatives were all for it. Clinton was a fiscal conservative who went against his own party on NAFTA.

My thinking has always been consistent - that merging two very different economies means that many people in one or both economies will suffer. I am not for free market and never have been. I am for government protectionism as needed to protect their people. I am abhorred by the fact that China's super accelerated economic development was done off the backs of the American workers.

Of course it was the American worker that supported capitalism above all else - that supported trickle down which enabled the wealthiest to abandon American workers and invest in China.

It's the inconsistency in conservative thinking that is the problem. They want free markets, they want trickle down, then when it all backfires on them they elect a scam artist/globalist named Trump and are stupid enough to believe that he will fix everything. They have a big surprise coming their way.

 

[RealDave]

So are you suggesting unionization in all countries before we have a free trade agreement? Conservatives tend to be extremely anti-union.

More cognitive dissonance?

Indeed, MORON...we were promised the maquiladoras on the mehican border would be environmentally-friendly and unionized to pass NAFTA....it never happened. In your brave new world, companies are chasing the cheapest labor dollar and with cheap fuel will continue to ignore transportation costs. We don't have to compete with sweatshop labor while China devalues their currency and won't take in our exports. Rigged game, stupid game clowns like you think are just fine.....That horseshit is yesterday's news....don't like it, who cares?

Funny you mention China. Isn't that where Ivanka & Trump gets their shit made?

US companies were making their shit in Mexico duty free long before NAFTA was signed. Companies can only seek their cheap labor overseas if Americans opt to buy it. We should not be giving US corps a tax break for taking their factories overseas. Thanks to Republicans their overseas profits are not taxed until they bring them home - so they don't. When we import steel from China to manufacture, it cancels out any freight advantage we might have against Chinese products made from steel. It is really stupid to wall off the US market for just US made goods when the global reaction will be to end our exports. What kind of idiot strives to claim 315 million customers while alienation billions?