That’s wishful thinking. At best they have infected America.
Post 23929312 reply to 23877924
Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx
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That’s wishful thinking. At best they have infected America.
Post 23929312 reply to 23877924
No. It's still a Christian nation. Some of us seem to have lost our way though. Not to worry though. It's only a matter of time before a self correction.So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
Claiming to be a Christian in a poll is not the same as giving of yourself, volunteering, being a good citizen, and a good steward of the Word of God.
Jefferson was a Christian - just not a mainstream Christian
Just because Jefferson did not agree with the mainstream doesn't prove a damn thing.
I made a case for Jefferson being a Christian.
If you had read this thread, I proved, unequivocally, that Jefferson was a Christian.
The Ten Commandments are a common set of Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God and have as much weight in society as any man made law.
Doesn’t matter if Jefferson was a Christian.
He had Christian values and principles.
Everyone who is raised in America has Christian values and principles.
It’s cyclical.23931584 reply to 23931186Doesn’t matter if Jefferson was a Christian.
He had Christian values and principles.
Everyone who is raised in America has Christian values and principles.
It matters when this matter is addressed to Mr. Rockwell. Because he writes that America is no longer a Christian Nation. You saw the posts, he says it’s because so many so called Christians are not really genuine well behaved enough Christians and therefore not Stewards of the Word of God.
Jefferson was an OK steward of the Word of God when Rockwell counts him as a Christian with 98% of all four million of the white ones around the 1790s.
But now with 65% of a quarter billion Americans professing to be Christians, Mr. Rockwell can’t find enough good ones to defeat Satan and his Secular Humanist Army.
Secular Humanists today might want to cut up the Bible as Jefferson so wisely did 250 years ago.
I guess that’s Ok with you, to you they are still Christians. But it is apparently not ok with your ‘false declaration that America was founded as a Christian Nation’ thread partner.
You should take that up with your buddy.
So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.
America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.
In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.
Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.
23929706 para 18Claiming to be a Christian in a poll is not the same as giving of yourself, volunteering, being a good citizen, and a good steward of the Word of God.
The following links showing four times that Mr Rockwell states that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian. Plus a fifth link stating that the Ten Commandments ... Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God.”
Jefferson was a Christian - just not a mainstream Christian
Just because Jefferson did not agree with the mainstream doesn't prove a damn thing.
I made a case for Jefferson being a Christian.
If you had read this thread, I proved, unequivocally, that Jefferson was a Christian.
The Ten Commandments are a common set of Bible laws that all Christians profess are the Word of God and have as much weight in society as any man made law.
Jefferson did not claim to be a Christian, But Mr Rockwell says he was. The conflict Mr Rockwell has with himself is that he wants us to know urgency for Christendom to defend the world from the evils of secular humanism, Christians must be good citizens for sure but they must also be a good steward of the Word of God.
I submit that Jefferson was not a good steward of the Word of God. He did not believe it was, and he took a razor to it to rid it of the that political dung that he thought organized religion put in it.
So, should not Jefferson of today be on your Christian shit list for aiding and abetting the evil human secularists in taking control of the nation from the Christians Word of God believing model that today you think is lacking.
I question why you can have Jefferson both ways. The right kind of Christian in his day but the wrong kind of Christian today.
Which is "a" reason many came here to begin with- state sanctioned church- I like your word Churchians to describe religious orders- it fits- Full disclosure: I'm not a believer either.They were all committed to religious Liberty.
So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.
America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.
In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.
Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.
What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?
Which is "a" reason many came here to begin with- state sanctioned church- I like your word Churchians to describe religious orders- it fits- Full disclosure: I'm not a believer either.They were all committed to religious Liberty.
I can’t speak for him but it depends if your a militant atheist attempting to subordinate religion in the time honored Marxist tradition.So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.
America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.
In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.
Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.
What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?
I can’t speak for him but it depends if your a militant atheist attempting to subordinate religion in the time honored Marxist tradition.So what's the gist of this thread so far? America was a Christian nation and now it's not? Now why would He allow that to happen? Maybe He wasn't pleased with the way things were going when it was a Christian nation and decided on a change of management?
If you aren't educated enough to read the thread, then maybe you'd better skip it.
America has been under attack since its inception. The financial part started as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution. The social, political, and religious crises took much longer.
In 1962, the de facto / unconstitutional / illegal / immoral social and religious forces began the defeat of the posterity of the framers. Today, there are at least two governments operating in the United States. There is the de facto / illegal government that is in charge and the de jure / legal / constitutional Republic guaranteed under the Constitution.
Right now the secularists / secular humanists / atheists / unbelievers are crowing about the government they have. I'm in the process of educating a troll about how great his illegal utopia really is NOT. At least have the courage to read posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 39, and 40. That sums up the OP in 6 easy posts. The rest is basically two of us giving a guy with commie avatar the beat down of a lifetime.
What I really want to know is what do you want from us non Christians? Are we to have a daily ritual where we bow down and kiss your Christian ass?
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,
that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,
Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?
23934105 Reply to 23931186
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.
Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause
Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.
Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]
Fact Five: You posted this:
Here are two truths
- "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.
- “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”
Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.
You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.
From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.
Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson
Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,
that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,
Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?
23934105 Reply to 23931186
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.
Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause
Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.
Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]
Fact Five: You posted this:
Here are two truths
- "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.
- “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”
Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.
You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.
From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.
Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson
Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,
that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,
Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?
23934105 Reply to 23931186
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.
Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause
Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.
Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]
Fact Five: You posted this:
Here are two truths
- "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.
- “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”
Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.
You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.
From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.
Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson
Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803
Who wrote the rules saying what one must believe or disbelieve IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD (WHICH IS IN THE BIBLE)?????
Every time I've caught you lying, I have cited it chapter and verse. NOBODY is going to screw around with your private numbering system.
A period of 1803 to 1816 defines a man's life??? A whole 13 years in the life of a man who lived to be 83 defines every thought he had about Christianity? Really? How stupid can you be!!!
I've been telling people that Donald Trump is anti - gun based upon statements he made over a 25 year period, ending just as recent as about August of last year. I've not convinced ANYONE he's anti gun even with 25 years up to August of last year to prove it by his own words. Good luck with getting people to believe that swill you just tried to sell here.
You've lied by calling me a liar. You ARE a pathological liar and you've ignored my posts. I'm sure you won't mind if I fail to give you another minute of my time. You've tried to make a God of Jefferson. Best I can tell, God was using him much like he's using Trump.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,
that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,
Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?
23934105 Reply to 23931186
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.
Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause
Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.
Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]
Fact Five: You posted this:
Here are two truths
- "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.
- “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”
Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.
You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.
From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.
Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson
Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. I am a real Christian,
that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man,
Didn’t think I could look ‘real Christian’ up?
23934105 Reply to 23931186
Performing a Contextomy is a form of lying.this troll is LYING, LYING, LYING. I will only respond to what I saw:
FACT: Thomas Jefferson self identified as a Christian. Yes, at points in his life he questioned religion, rejected a lot of it; however at points in his life he himself self identified as a Christian. So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
Unlike you I can document right here exact that proof in writing that you lied.
Proponents calling for belief that the USA was founded as a Christian Nation should not bear false witness against thy honest neighbor and then make an obvious lie on the same trade. It hurts your cause
Fact One: You posted a brief sentence from a Jefferson letter that he asked to be kept private. I presume that ‘kept private’ because Jefferson was called an atheist and infidel by men of the cloth much of his political life. There are reasons Christian clergy and parishioners considered Jefferson’s atheism made him unfit for office . He never said he believed in the Divinity of Christ. That belief is required of one professing to be a Christian.
Fact Two: in the same letter Jefferson said this, “to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed” from other writing we know Jefferson considered the corruptions of Christianity to be: {The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today.[1] The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[2][3][4][5]}. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Three: In a letter to John Adams dated August 22, 1813, Jefferson named Joseph Priestly (an English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (an English Deist) as his religious inspirations.[9]. Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia
Fact Four: Jefferson opposed Calvinism, Trinitarianism, and what he identified as Platonic elements in Christianity. In private letters Jefferson also described himself as subscribing to other certain philosophies, in addition to being a Christian. In these letters he described himself as also being an "Epicurean" (1819),[10] a "19th century materialist" (1820),[11] a "Unitarian by myself" (1825),[12] and "a sect by myself" (1819).[13]
Fact Five: You posted this:
Here are two truths
- "I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
1803 Letter to Benjamin Rush:
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816. see bold text in except from the whole original.
- “I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other.
To Charles Thomson Monticello, January 9, 1816 < The Letters of Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826 < Thomas Jefferson < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, through our friend Dr. Patterson, of your synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertised, and had become familiar with its use; but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. This work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks everything from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselvesChristians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.
Fact Six: You wrote: “So, what he a Christian? YES. Was he Christian at every point in his life? Maybe not. His childish outbursts and mood swings leaves one to wonder.”
Jefferson put in writing virtually the exact same view of Church Christianity; once in 1803 and again in 1816.
You call that a mood sing and childish outburst. You are proud of yourself I am sure.
From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803 To Benjamin Rush Washington April 21. 1803.
Dear Sir
In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798. 99. which1 served as an Anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then labouring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic: and I then promised you that, one day or other, I would give you my views of it. they are the result of a life of enquiry & reflection, and very different from that Anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. to the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human2 excellence, & believing he never claimed any other. at the short3 intervals, since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs,4 this subject has been under my contemplation. but the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. in the moment of my late departure from Monticello,5 I recieved from Doctr. Priestly his little treatise of ‘Socrates & Jesus compared.’ this being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection, while on the road, and unoccupied otherwise. the result was, to arrange in my mind a Syllabus, or Outline, of such an Estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity, as I wished to see executed, by some one of more leisure and information for the task than myself. this I now send you, as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. and, in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make6 every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that Inquisition over the rights of 7 conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. it behoves every man, who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others;8 or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. it behoves him too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independant opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between god & himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.
Th: Jefferson
Founders Online: From Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 21 April 1803
Who wrote the rules saying what one must believe or disbelieve IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD (WHICH IS IN THE BIBLE)?????
Every time I've caught you lying, I have cited it chapter and verse. NOBODY is going to screw around with your private numbering system.
A period of 1803 to 1816 defines a man's life??? A whole 13 years in the life of a man who lived to be 83 defines every thought he had about Christianity? Really? How stupid can you be!!!
I've been telling people that Donald Trump is anti - gun based upon statements he made over a 25 year period, ending just as recent as about August of last year. I've not convinced ANYONE he's anti gun even with 25 years up to August of last year to prove it by his own words. Good luck with getting people to believe that swill you just tried to sell here.
You've lied by calling me a liar. You ARE a pathological liar and you've ignored my posts. I'm sure you won't mind if I fail to give you another minute of my time. You've tried to make a God of Jefferson. Best I can tell, God was using him much like he's using Trump.
You posted this as fact. As Jefferson’s Intent::
“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
That is a lie because it leaves out the context of the writers intent
The full statement I provided with links to sources:
“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature..”
If you read that full statement and swear to God that Jefferson is declaring himself a believer in the Divinity of Christ? You are lying to yourself.
i can’t fix that. All I can do is put the truth and facts in front of you. You cannot refute my facts
You won’t even try. I know that.