american-dream-slips-out-of-reach-for-millennials-study-finds

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's still a pretty good paying job, and it also depends on where you work in the country. Here is what I found nationally:

Journeyman Wages

A bricklayer who has successfully completed his apprenticeship is known as a journeyman. Wages for union journeyman bricklayers vary based on their geographic location. Taxable wages for a union journeyman bricklayer in Orange County, Calif., were $35.26, while his counterpart in Ithaca, N.Y., earned $26.78 per hour.

Union Bricklayer Pay Scale

According to Salary.com, bricklayers over here make around $45.00 per hour, but that includes benefits:

Bricklayer Salaries in Ohio and by education, experience, Location and more - Salary.com

Bottom line is that these are good paying jobs, but it's difficult to find people willing to do hard manual labor.

Not bad. But how would it compare to the same job a generation ago?

How much do the apprentices made while apprenticing?

The downward pressuring factors in the labor pool makes me suspect that those wages have NOT kept up with inflation.

Maybe not. But with all the complaining by the left that there are no jobs, it sure pays pretty well for no takers.

Back to point: I believe that while many are making less than their parents, part of that is due to the lack of motivation. In my line of work, we need tens of thousands of drivers industry can't find. Many truck drivers today are foreigners because Americans won't take these jobs. Some of these guys can't even speak or read English.

I had some tenants leave their apartment last year. It was a younger couple both who worked at fast food restaurants. They made the rent, but were usually late. I had no problem with that so it wasn't an issue. They were in their mid 20's when they left, and the reason they worked restaurants is because they didn't want to give up smoking pot. Pot is more important than securing a career or even a job for that matter. As long as they worked lower wage jobs, they didn't have to worry about ever being drug tested.

I see a vast difference between younger people today and younger people years ago when I entered the workforce. When I was younger, I was the first in my crowd to get my own apartment at the age of 20, but many of my other friends were not far behind. We didn't live at home with our parents until our 30's. Today, it's common from what I've read.

I like to see inflation adjusted numbers for those driving jobs. I bet that if you looked at it, you would find that they are NOT paying what they did when you were 20.

As with most manual labor jobs.

And that's is the result of bad policy choices, leading to an oversupply of labor, and a decrease of demand.

If you want someone to make sacrifices like spending most of their lives on the road away from their family, you need to make it worth their while.

I've worked temp jobs in other states. I didn't do it so that we could scrape by a little better.

I did it because I was making money hand over fist.

There is nothing you can do about over supply of labor. True, we will soon have a President that will be much tougher on foreigners getting into this country, but that's only part of the problem.

There will always be a percentage of our population that are manual labor people. Everybody has different inclinations. You can't turn a scientist into a NFL quarterback. You can't turn a mechanic into a lawyer. There are medical doctors who call out a plumber to fix a leaky toilet. They pay them $75.00 or more to come out and change a two dollar flapper vale that takes about two minutes.

The problem is that with automation and outsourcing, those manual labor jobs are disappearing by the millions, and that's part of the over supply labor problem. What are we supposed to do with all those manual labor people when machines take over just about everything? I got into truck driving because drivers were so in demand, and I never wanted to be in a position of having no job. Now they are experimenting with manless trucks that drive themselves!

By the time they get here, I'll either be retired or long off this earth, but what about the younger manual labor people?

 

[Correll]

Not bad. But how would it compare to the same job a generation ago?

How much do the apprentices made while apprenticing?

The downward pressuring factors in the labor pool makes me suspect that those wages have NOT kept up with inflation.

Maybe not. But with all the complaining by the left that there are no jobs, it sure pays pretty well for no takers.

Back to point: I believe that while many are making less than their parents, part of that is due to the lack of motivation. In my line of work, we need tens of thousands of drivers industry can't find. Many truck drivers today are foreigners because Americans won't take these jobs. Some of these guys can't even speak or read English.

I had some tenants leave their apartment last year. It was a younger couple both who worked at fast food restaurants. They made the rent, but were usually late. I had no problem with that so it wasn't an issue. They were in their mid 20's when they left, and the reason they worked restaurants is because they didn't want to give up smoking pot. Pot is more important than securing a career or even a job for that matter. As long as they worked lower wage jobs, they didn't have to worry about ever being drug tested.

I see a vast difference between younger people today and younger people years ago when I entered the workforce. When I was younger, I was the first in my crowd to get my own apartment at the age of 20, but many of my other friends were not far behind. We didn't live at home with our parents until our 30's. Today, it's common from what I've read.

I like to see inflation adjusted numbers for those driving jobs. I bet that if you looked at it, you would find that they are NOT paying what they did when you were 20.

As with most manual labor jobs.

And that's is the result of bad policy choices, leading to an oversupply of labor, and a decrease of demand.

If you want someone to make sacrifices like spending most of their lives on the road away from their family, you need to make it worth their while.

I've worked temp jobs in other states. I didn't do it so that we could scrape by a little better.

I did it because I was making money hand over fist.

There is nothing you can do about over supply of labor. True, we will soon have a President that will be much tougher on foreigners getting into this country, but that's only part of the problem.

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

There will always be a percentage of our population that are manual labor people. Everybody has different inclinations. You can't turn a scientist into a NFL quarterback. You can't turn a mechanic into a lawyer. There are medical doctors who call out a plumber to fix a leaky toilet. They pay them $75.00 or more to come out and change a two dollar flapper vale that takes about two minutes.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

The problem is that with automation and outsourcing, those manual labor jobs are disappearing by the millions, and that's part of the over supply labor problem. What are we supposed to do with all those manual labor people when machines take over just about everything? I got into truck driving because drivers were so in demand, and I never wanted to be in a position of having no job. Now they are experimenting with manless trucks that drive themselves!

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

By the time they get here, I'll either be retired or long off this earth, but what about the younger manual labor people?

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Not a surprise, and part of the reason outsiders like Bernie and Trump were so popular. You can't maintain the status quo when people aren't experiencing what they have seen other experience. People want to blame everyone and everything but the reality on the ground.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

 

[Correll]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

 

[ColonelAngus]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/american-dream-slips-out-of-reach-for-millennials-study-finds/ar-AAlkAyv?li=BBnb7Kz


Children born in 1940 had a 92 percent chance of taking home more income than their parents, the research shows. By contrast, someone born in 1984 — who is 32 years old today — has just a 50 percent likelihood of making more than his or her parents.



------------

The funny part is I earn more than my parents did, and can't buy anything with it

Millenials don't want to be like their parents and grandparents.

The hard work and sensiblilities of their ancestors is blemished by the awful racism, xenophobia, and misogyny of those generations.

The millenial population will wisk through history as a footnote and a customary tale of their futile battle for ending their manufactured social injustices.

 

[shockedcanadian]

What is the so called american dream anyway? It has never been defined but it sure was recklessly bantered about.

People owning their own land/home and being able to do with it what they want.

And also having enough money for a nice car, reasonably fashionable clothes, college for the kids, plenty of food, good healthcare, never having to want for anything.

One good family vacation a year.

You can afford to go on vacation in America?

Vacation in Canada is "going into town", or a "Netflix night".

 

[Correll]

What is the so called american dream anyway? It has never been defined but it sure was recklessly bantered about.

People owning their own land/home and being able to do with it what they want.

And also having enough money for a nice car, reasonably fashionable clothes, college for the kids, plenty of food, good healthcare, never having to want for anything.

One good family vacation a year.

You can afford to go on vacation in America?

Vacation in Canada is "going into town", or a "Netflix night".

I have in the past. Took the family on a cruise to Bermuda a while back.

It was great.

That was a while ago.

I'm not sure when if ever I'll be able to do that again.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

There are plenty of jobs, it's just that the younger generation doesn't want to do them. Why do you suppose that over one-third of our people of working age do not work nor are looking for a job?

Trust me, I work with industry. I spend a lot of time in industrial areas. Most all of them are loaded with HELP WANTED signs. Go there a month later, those signs are still up there on the same buildings.

Some of our customers have asked me if I know anybody looking for a job because they can't find help. As I stated, my industry needs over 50,000 new drivers they can't find.

There is no such thing as no jobs. There are thousands of jobs out there. They may not pay as much as you'd like, they may not have the hours that you want, but there are plenty of jobs out there.

 

[Correll]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

There are plenty of jobs, it's just that the younger generation doesn't want to do them. Why do you suppose that over one-third of our people of working age do not work nor are looking for a job?

Trust me, I work with industry. I spend a lot of time in industrial areas. Most all of them are loaded with HELP WANTED signs. Go there a month later, those signs are still up there on the same buildings.

Some of our customers have asked me if I know anybody looking for a job because they can't find help. As I stated, my industry needs over 50,000 new drivers they can't find.

There is no such thing as no jobs. There are thousands of jobs out there. They may not pay as much as you'd like, they may not have the hours that you want, but there are plenty of jobs out there.

If it's not paying enough to make a difference, why take it?

If the hours suck, in that it messes up your life, and doesn't give you enough wages to change it, why take it?

Do they want experience, while paying a starting wage?

DO they want a degree, while paying shit?

 

[BluesLegend]

Stop electing corrupt Dem and Rep establishment politicians, problem solved. They fuck over the American people to line their own pockets and are owned by special interests. They are whores basically and cheap ones.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

There are plenty of jobs, it's just that the younger generation doesn't want to do them. Why do you suppose that over one-third of our people of working age do not work nor are looking for a job?

Trust me, I work with industry. I spend a lot of time in industrial areas. Most all of them are loaded with HELP WANTED signs. Go there a month later, those signs are still up there on the same buildings.

Some of our customers have asked me if I know anybody looking for a job because they can't find help. As I stated, my industry needs over 50,000 new drivers they can't find.

There is no such thing as no jobs. There are thousands of jobs out there. They may not pay as much as you'd like, they may not have the hours that you want, but there are plenty of jobs out there.

If it's not paying enough to make a difference, why take it?

If the hours suck, in that it messes up your life, and doesn't give you enough wages to change it, why take it?

Do they want experience, while paying a starting wage?

DO they want a degree, while paying shit?

Well there you go, it's the same attitude with a lot of youngsters today. If the job isn't perfect, just stay home on SNAP's cards and welfare.

Times have really changed. When I was younger, any job was better than no job. Of course then, our safety net systems didn't pay anything like today. No job meant no money. When you get hungry enough, you'll work no matter what work it is. Having lights and heat meant a lot. In many cases, Dad kicked you out of the house at 18 or after college.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

There are plenty of jobs, it's just that the younger generation doesn't want to do them. Why do you suppose that over one-third of our people of working age do not work nor are looking for a job?

Trust me, I work with industry. I spend a lot of time in industrial areas. Most all of them are loaded with HELP WANTED signs. Go there a month later, those signs are still up there on the same buildings.

Some of our customers have asked me if I know anybody looking for a job because they can't find help. As I stated, my industry needs over 50,000 new drivers they can't find.

There is no such thing as no jobs. There are thousands of jobs out there. They may not pay as much as you'd like, they may not have the hours that you want, but there are plenty of jobs out there.

A year ago I applied to U.S technology sales jobs as that is my skillset and what I have excelled at. These were jobs paying $60k+, American (so add 20-25% Canadian), they had benefits, 401K etc. I applied to about four such jobs, received call backs from three, two immediate telephone interviews. The only barrier was I lived in Canada, was a bummer for me and I really don't know how the system works to be able to have them pay for my moving costs, work visa etc.

A month later, three of the four jobs were available again. I was thinking "this is insane". Good companies looking for good, educated, ambitious employees and the jobs weren't being filled. Sales is the lifeblood of a company and they deserve the best and brightest, I am confidence enough to say I am one such person. It still surprises me that these jobs couldn't be filled.

I know $60K might not make everyone excited, but I know how I think. I will double that in time with commission, I will be promoted within the company and either get into management or become a partner. That's my thinking and I'm no spring chicken (though I'm not close to retirement). Maybe it's a problem with work ethic, maybe it's a problem with expectation. To me you either fill these jobs locally, or make it much easier for American businesses to pick their employees, especially from a country like Canada that shares the language and many of us share the American way of life. As long as a Canadian is paying taxes and spending within the economy, really what's the difference? How else can a mid sized company compete and grow unless they are able to get the best they can get?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Deport the illegals and stop importing Third World labor, and that will have a serious impact. Those people aren't coming because there is no demand.

Agreed. To some extent. Sometimes you CAN turn a Mechanic into a lawyer or a NFL quarter back into a scientist. Just because someone is working with his hands, doesn't mean he is doing that because he has too.

And just because someone is working with their head, doesn't mean they are capable of hard physical work.

Be that as it may.

In my experience that is false.

Years ago I took a part-time job teaching music. Some of my students were as dumb as an ox, but learned and played very well. Others were white collar but no matter how hard they tried, could never figure it out.

The worst were the jock types. When I got a new student, and they walked in with baseball attire and trying to start a conversation about sports, I knew from that moment they would never be successful at playing guitar. Oh, they tried their ass off, but for some reason, people who are consumed with sports have absolutely no musical ability.

My sister is a college grad, makes great money, and has a good job at the Cleveland Clinic. She's smart as a whip, but can't do the simplest things when it comes to home repair. She had a broken handle on her toilet. I explained to her how easy it was to repair. She refused to even try; said she was confused. I told her to go to YouTube and watch a few videos. She said that didn't help her either. I finally fixed it myself. Took me five minutes at the most.

You might be able to get people to do things they don't have a natural ability to do, but that doesn't mean they will be any good at it. You have to be good at what you do to make a living off of it.

Outsourcing is a policy that can be reversed.

Automation is a factor, BUT it is not an excuse for inaction. We can get a lot of those jobs back, for quite some time.

At some point automation will require some serious changes in society and economics. We are not there yet.

Oh but we are getting there. Here is a piece from economist Dr Walter Williams. It is a bit dated, but has some pretty interesting statistics when it comes to labor in this country and around the world. It's a short read:

Walter Williams

For now get them jobs. Long term, that is a conversation that we need to have. A lot will depend on the details of how the Post Work Society tech shakes out.

You can't just get them jobs. We need a huge cutback on our social programs to do that. As long as people can live just as comfortably on social programs as they can working, it makes no sense to get a job.

With all due respect to Walter Williams, he is comparing a lot of apples to oranges. Comparing insourced manufacturing wages to national average instead of to manufacturing average, for one example.


Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we do. That's a lot of jobs to just give up on, because in a generation or two, they won't be there.


If we get to a point where automation and robots and computers can do almost EVERYTHING, we might have to reconsider our economy and society from the ground up.

YOu can't tell people to better themselves and go find a job, when there are literally NO JOBS FOR THEM.

There are plenty of jobs, it's just that the younger generation doesn't want to do them. Why do you suppose that over one-third of our people of working age do not work nor are looking for a job?

Trust me, I work with industry. I spend a lot of time in industrial areas. Most all of them are loaded with HELP WANTED signs. Go there a month later, those signs are still up there on the same buildings.

Some of our customers have asked me if I know anybody looking for a job because they can't find help. As I stated, my industry needs over 50,000 new drivers they can't find.

There is no such thing as no jobs. There are thousands of jobs out there. They may not pay as much as you'd like, they may not have the hours that you want, but there are plenty of jobs out there.

A year ago I applied to U.S technology sales jobs as that is my skillset and what I have excelled at. These were jobs paying $60k+, American (so add 20-25% Canadian), they had benefits, 401K etc. I applied to about four such jobs, received call backs from three, two immediate telephone interviews. The only barrier was I lived in Canada, was a bummer for me and I really don't know how the system works to be able to have them pay for my moving costs, work visa etc.

A month later, three of the four jobs were available again. I was thinking "this is insane". Good companies looking for good, educated, ambitious employees and the jobs weren't being filled. Sales is the lifeblood of a company and they deserve the best and brightest, I am confidence enough to say I am one such person. It still surprises me that these jobs couldn't be filled.

I know $60K might not make everyone excited, but I know how I think. I will double that in time with commission, I will be promoted within the company and either get into management or become a partner. That's my thinking and I'm no spring chicken (though I'm not close to retirement). Maybe it's a problem with work ethic, maybe it's a problem with expectation. To me you either fill these jobs locally, or make it much easier for American businesses to pick their employees, especially from a country like Canada that shares the language and many of us share the American way of life. As long as a Canadian is paying taxes and spending within the economy, really what's the difference? How else can a mid sized company compete and grow unless they are able to get the best they can get?

Absolutely. Our problem in this country is our social programs. There isn't much of a work ethic anymore. You and I sound like around the same age, and even though we live in different places, we probably shared the same experiences when we were younger.

Getting into my line of work can pay 60K a year or better. Some companies will not only train you for free, but pay you while you learn. You just have to sign a one or two year contract with them. After that, you're an experienced driver with the ability to live anywhere in the country you desire, drive anywhere you desire, and getting paid pretty well at the same time. You'd never have to worry about being out of work again the rest of your life no matter what the economy.

That's not good enough for some Americans. It's too much time, too much work, the pay isn't excellent, you spend too much time away from home.

What you experienced with that company is not unusual. They simply can't find Americans to work. I see it all the time with our customers.

 

[HenryBHough]

Should we mourn for the countless hoodwinked "graduates" who go, at old age, to their graves with unpaid student loans?

Nawwwww.....

Dey done done it to theyselfs and dey deserve wot dey got!

 

[ClosedCaption]

In my opinion, Americans have become increasingly lazier. Drugs and drug testing plays a major role from what I've seen.

Stupidity is to look at a generational study and conclude that every generation deserved lower pay based on personal characteristics that effect the entire generation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In my opinion, Americans have become increasingly lazier. Drugs and drug testing plays a major role from what I've seen.

Stupidity is to look at a generational study and conclude that every generation deserved lower pay based on personal characteristics that effect the entire generation.

I have no idea what the hell that even means, but pay is based on what the individual does--not what the generation does.

 

[ClosedCaption]

In my opinion, Americans have become increasingly lazier. Drugs and drug testing plays a major role from what I've seen.

Stupidity is to look at a generational study and conclude that every generation deserved lower pay based on personal characteristics that effect the entire generation.

I have no idea what the hell that even means, but pay is based on what the individual does--not what the generation does.

Pay is based on what someone will pay you. I get tired of this bullshit that says whatever someone pays you is what you're worth because I know those people never had to shovel snow as a kid.

Dont set prices and go to 2 different houses to shovel snow. Same work but one guy pays $10 and the other pays $20. You're standing there wondering how you fucked up so bad on the $10 house when all it was was that's all the guy had to give you. Not that you're some sort of fuck up based on what someone else pays you goofball

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In my opinion, Americans have become increasingly lazier. Drugs and drug testing plays a major role from what I've seen.

Stupidity is to look at a generational study and conclude that every generation deserved lower pay based on personal characteristics that effect the entire generation.

I have no idea what the hell that even means, but pay is based on what the individual does--not what the generation does.

Pay is based on what someone will pay you. I get tired of this bullshit that says whatever someone pays you is what you're worth because I know those people never had to shovel snow as a kid.

Dont set prices and go to 2 different houses to shovel snow. Same work but one guy pays $10 and the other pays $20. You're standing there wondering how you fucked up so bad on the $10 house when all it was was that's all the guy had to give you. Not that you're some sort of fuck up based on what someone else pays you goofball

An employee is worth only as much as another person willing to do the same quality work. Most all of us are paid that way.

If you scrub toilets for a living, that's a job anybody can do. As long as an employer can find people to do the job for $10.00 an hour, that's all the job is worth. Why pay a person $20.00 an hour when you can find them for $10.00?

If you run a drill press and it pays $15.00 an hour, why pay them $25.00 an hour when you can find plenty of people to run that drill press for $15.00?