Americans have had over 200 years to prove democracy can work, but...

[zaangalewa]

A Republic Is Tyranny

"republic" - res publica - rulership is a public issue.

"tyranny" - one single absolute ruler decides

 

[zaangalewa]

We have two MAJOR(large~main) political parties, and several smaller "third" parties. Next most largest of the "thirds" is likely the Libertarian. The two major parties in essence rally around the polarity of the political ideologies; conservative vs progressive/liberal, and given the nature of elections requiring money for campaigning: signs, literature, tv/radio ads, travel to rallies, etc. things have settled onto the two major parties in the last century. USA history shows a full past of other major parties, and occasional minor third ones that had brief major influence.

In 1848 (175 years ago) Zachary Taylor was the last president of the USA who not had been a Democrat or Republican. He was a "Whig" - whatever this is.

Question: Which political party except "the Democrats" and "the Republicans" could win the next elections in the USA? If no one - "why"? Concrete means this "why" that I heard most US-Americans don't like to have to make again a decision "Donald Trump vs Joe Biden". Many think it should exist better alternatives. If this is really the will of the very most US-Americans - what I don't know!!! - how can this be realized?

 

[SavannahMann]

There are a few problems. As has been mentioned we are a representative republic. This has advantages in that such republics are guided and limited by a constitution.

We are also a democracy. Sort of.

By voting for our candidate’s of choice, or on ballot issues, we can start or prevent certain actions. An example is the recent ballot initiatives on Abortion which shocked the RW.

When I was much much younger we had a thing called comprise. This was accomplished by more moderate politicians working out a deal everyone could live with. This most recently was the Gang of 14 led notionally by McCain.

Gang of 14 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But let me give you an example of compromise. Let’s say you are selling a house. You offer it for $250,000. You doubt you will get that but you believe you will get about $240,000. You expect to get that amount from the sale.

A few months goes by and nobody offers on the house. Then I come along. I am looking for a house. I would like to pay $200,000. I am willing to pay $225,000. But your house has everything I am looking for on my wish list.

I offer $225,000. You counter with $240,000. I still want the house. But I don’t want to pay $240,000. I offer $230,000. You want to sell. But that is too low. You counter with your final of $237,000.

I tell you that the absolute most I’ll pay is $232,000. We finally agree on $233,500.

I paid more than I wanted to. You received less than you wanted. But in the end neither are happy, but both can live with it. That is a compromise.

That is the problem with politics today. They will not compromise. The parties are run by the extremists. People who will accept nothing short of total victory. They won’t even speak to anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%. It is to be victory or death.

Every day we see this. When I was a boy there was a weekly sports show called the Wide World of Sports. The intro showed clips of famous sporting events. The voice over told you about the show. The triumph of victory. The agony of defeat.

The parties have devolved into that show. Either it is the triumph of victory or the agony of defeat.

The second problem is core beliefs. In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan could walk in unprepared and talk for an hour on his core beliefs without a single note. These were ideals and principles he held dear to his heart. They were his guides in the world.

Today the extremists have a single core belief. Destroying their enemies. For the MTG’s and Boebert’s that is Liberals and Minorities. For AOC that is the RW.

They’re all wrong. They are enemies. They are fellow citizens. Fellow Americans.

We have gone from Voltaire’s I may not agree with what you have to say but I’ll fight to the death for your right to say it, to I’ll kill you for saying that.

For that the only answer I can come up with is to bring back dueling. Maybe if enough of them die they’ll finally calm down enough to talk and listen. I doubt it. They’ll probably go ahead and start the Second Civil War they dream of.

Two decades ago I started to think that we would be better served if we gave up on electing congressional representatives. I figured we could do just as well picking people at random from within each district. Like Jury Duty. They get called up and sent to Washington for their term of service.

Sure you would still get the occasional nut. You would certainly get a MTG or AOC. But they would only have one term and they return home. Most of the Representatives would be average people who aren’t with the extremes. They would not have to curry favor with donors to get re-elected. They wouldn’t have to repay debts to those who helped get them elected. They could just do the job and go home. Just like Jury Duty.

Come on. They couldn’t do any worse than what we have now.

Like a Jury you would have an alternate or two in case the individual couldn’t serve. The Probate Judge in the area could excuse a Congressional Representative or Senator in favor of the alternate if need be.

 

[zaangalewa]

There are a few problems. As has been mentioned we are a representative republic. This has advantages in that such republics are guided and limited by a constitution.

We are also a democracy. Sort of.

By voting for our candidate’s of choice, or on ballot issues, we can start or prevent certain actions. An example is the recent ballot initiatives on Abortion which shocked the RW.

When I was much much younger we had a thing called comprise. This was accomplished by more moderate politicians working out a deal everyone could live with. This most recently was the Gang of 14 led notionally by McCain.

Gang of 14 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But let me give you an example of compromise. Let’s say you are selling a house. You offer it for $250,000. You doubt you will get that but you believe you will get about $240,000. You expect to get that amount from the sale.

A few months goes by and nobody offers on the house. Then I come along. I am looking for a house. I would like to pay $200,000. I am willing to pay $225,000. But your house has everything I am looking for on my wish list.

I offer $225,000. You counter with $240,000. I still want the house. But I don’t want to pay $240,000. I offer $230,000. You want to sell. But that is too low. You counter with your final of $237,000.

I tell you that the absolute most I’ll pay is $232,000. We finally agree on $233,500.

I paid more than I wanted to. You received less than you wanted. But in the end neither are happy, but both can live with it. That is a compromise.

That is the problem with politics today. They will not compromise. The parties are run by the extremists. People who will accept nothing short of total victory. They won’t even speak to anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%. It is to be victory or death.

Every day we see this. When I was a boy there was a weekly sports show called the Wide World of Sports. The intro showed clips of famous sporting events. The voice over told you about the show. The triumph of victory. The agony of defeat.

The parties have devolved into that show. Either it is the triumph of victory or the agony of defeat.

The second problem is core beliefs. In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan could walk in unprepared and talk for an hour on his core beliefs without a single note. These were ideals and principles he held dear to his heart. They were his guides in the world.

Today the extremists have a single core belief. Destroying their enemies. For the MTG’s and Boebert’s that is Liberals and Minorities. For AOC that is the RW.

They’re all wrong. They are enemies. They are fellow citizens. Fellow Americans.

We have gone from Voltaire’s I may not agree with what you have to say but I’ll fight to the death for your right to say it, to I’ll kill you for saying that.

For that the only answer I can come up with is to bring back dueling. Maybe if enough of them die they’ll finally calm down enough to talk and listen. I doubt it. They’ll probably go ahead and start the Second Civil War they dream of.

Two decades ago I started to think that we would be better served if we gave up on electing congressional representatives. I figured we could do just as well picking people at random from within each district. Like Jury Duty. They get called up and sent to Washington for their term of service.

Sure you would still get the occasional nut. You would certainly get a MTG or AOC. But they would only have one term and they return home. Most of the Representatives would be average people who aren’t with the extremes. They would not have to curry favor with donors to get re-elected. They wouldn’t have to repay debts to those who helped get them elected. They could just do the job and go home. Just like Jury Duty.

Come on. They couldn’t do any worse than what we have now.

Like a Jury you would have an alternate or two in case the individual couldn’t serve. The Probate Judge in the area could excuse a Congressional Representative or Senator in favor of the alternate if need be.

What you say here is by the way very similar to the basic ideas of Perikles in the ancient democracy of Athens:

It was also part of the idea of Athenian democracy that every citizen was considered capable of holding office. The approximately 700 officeholders were chosen by lot, their term of office was strictly limited, and they were subject to complete control and accountability. Only a few high-ranking offices that required special knowledge were awarded by election. These included financial administration, urban planning, water supply and the office of strategists, military commanders who were primarily responsible for external security and warfare.

Translated from this source: Grundzüge der athenischen Demokratie

 

[Dragonlady]

Get rid of democrats.

They tried that in South America. They ”disappeared” all of the leftists. That’s why South America is now a continent of of second tier “hell hole” countries.

And that’s where you’re headed if you continue with your right wing authoritarianism

 

[Dragonlady]

There are a few problems. As has been mentioned we are a representative republic. This has advantages in that such republics are guided and limited by a constitution.

We are also a democracy. Sort of.

By voting for our candidate’s of choice, or on ballot issues, we can start or prevent certain actions. An example is the recent ballot initiatives on Abortion which shocked the RW.

When I was much much younger we had a thing called comprise. This was accomplished by more moderate politicians working out a deal everyone could live with. This most recently was the Gang of 14 led notionally by McCain.

Gang of 14 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But let me give you an example of compromise. Let’s say you are selling a house. You offer it for $250,000. You doubt you will get that but you believe you will get about $240,000. You expect to get that amount from the sale.

A few months goes by and nobody offers on the house. Then I come along. I am looking for a house. I would like to pay $200,000. I am willing to pay $225,000. But your house has everything I am looking for on my wish list.

I offer $225,000. You counter with $240,000. I still want the house. But I don’t want to pay $240,000. I offer $230,000. You want to sell. But that is too low. You counter with your final of $237,000.

I tell you that the absolute most I’ll pay is $232,000. We finally agree on $233,500.

I paid more than I wanted to. You received less than you wanted. But in the end neither are happy, but both can live with it. That is a compromise.

That is the problem with politics today. They will not compromise. The parties are run by the extremists. People who will accept nothing short of total victory. They won’t even speak to anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%. It is to be victory or death.

Every day we see this. When I was a boy there was a weekly sports show called the Wide World of Sports. The intro showed clips of famous sporting events. The voice over told you about the show. The triumph of victory. The agony of defeat.

The parties have devolved into that show. Either it is the triumph of victory or the agony of defeat.

The second problem is core beliefs. In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan could walk in unprepared and talk for an hour on his core beliefs without a single note. These were ideals and principles he held dear to his heart. They were his guides in the world.

Today the extremists have a single core belief. Destroying their enemies. For the MTG’s and Boebert’s that is Liberals and Minorities. For AOC that is the RW.

They’re all wrong. They are enemies. They are fellow citizens. Fellow Americans.

We have gone from Voltaire’s I may not agree with what you have to say but I’ll fight to the death for your right to say it, to I’ll kill you for saying that.

For that the only answer I can come up with is to bring back dueling. Maybe if enough of them die they’ll finally calm down enough to talk and listen. I doubt it. They’ll probably go ahead and start the Second Civil War they dream of.

Two decades ago I started to think that we would be better served if we gave up on electing congressional representatives. I figured we could do just as well picking people at random from within each district. Like Jury Duty. They get called up and sent to Washington for their term of service.

Sure you would still get the occasional nut. You would certainly get a MTG or AOC. But they would only have one term and they return home. Most of the Representatives would be average people who aren’t with the extremes. They would not have to curry favor with donors to get re-elected. They wouldn’t have to repay debts to those who helped get them elected. They could just do the job and go home. Just like Jury Duty.

Come on. They couldn’t do any worse than what we have now.

Like a Jury you would have an alternate or two in case the individual couldn’t serve. The Probate Judge in the area could excuse a Congressional Representative or Senator in favor of the alternate if need be.

Your comparison to AOC to Marjorie Taylor, Greene is offensive. One woman is a complete clown, and the other is a well educated, well spoken, and thoughtful liberal.

AOC is not an “extremist” as the Banana Republicans, keep claiming she is. You keep referring to the Squad extremists, but the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is hardly “extreme”.

 

[SavannahMann]

Your comparison to AOC to Marjorie Taylor, Greene is offensive. One woman is a complete clown, and the other is a well educated, well spoken, and thoughtful liberal.

AOC is not an “extremist” as the Banana Republicans, keep claiming she is. You keep referring to the Squad extremists, but the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is hardly “extreme”.

I’m a moderate. I live in Georgia. I have the dubious honor of living in the state with two of the dumbest members of Congress. Hank Johnson who asked an Admiral if we had considered the idea that Guam may tip over and capsize. Marjorie Tyler Green who is notorious with all her dumb statements.

AIC is an extremist. As a Moderate I declare it. Her idiotic opposition to Amazon opening a distribution center there. Most districts are trying to get more jobs. She is trying to run the jobs off. That is extreme.

AOC fought for control of the agenda with Nancy Pelosi. She was just like the Freedom Caucus idiots battling with McCarthy. It happened off the floor but in full view of the public. So yes. She is extreme.

 

[Unkotare]

(is still a continent and not a country -...

America is my country.

 

[miketx]

(is still a continent and not a country - except you speak about [the United States of] America)



But all this people - except "Democrats" and "Republicans" - have to decide nothing because of your British system "The winner takes it all".



As far as as I heard would be happy the very most democracies in the world if they had such a stable and also such a dynamic political system as we have in Germany.

Sieg Heil! How's that Russian oil taste?

 

[zaangalewa]

America is my country.

Perhaps one of the United States of America is your country - or you need another name for the USA.

 

[zaangalewa]

Sieg Heil!

A greeting from some German soldiers of world war 1? In which context do you like to win in one piece without being wounded?

How's that Russian oil taste?

What do you try to say with this words?

 

[Unkotare]

Perhaps one of the United States of America is your country - or you need another name for the USA.

America is the name of my country.

 

[BackAgain]

Interesting read -

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.

www.theatlantic.com

Interesting. But wrong. We are absolutely a republic because the founders and framers were very intent to avoid the problems inherent in a democracy. We are, in fact, a Constitutional republic as an additional step to avoid democracy.

If you wish to contend that our Constitutional republic has some elements of a democracy as a part of it, I’d stipulate to that. We the People are, ultimately, the nation’s sovereigns; and that’s why we get the main say in who makes our laws and who administers and enforces our laws.

But to go from that premise to the conclusion that we are a “democracy,” is absolutely false.

 

[miketx]

A greeting from some German soldiers of world war 1? In which context do you like to win in one piece without being wounded?



What do you try to say with this words?

The usual babble response.

 

[zaangalewa]

America is the name of my country.

Tststststs - you will never understand what's your mistake.

 

[zaangalewa]

The usual babble response.

So why do you say something if you use only "The usual babble response" but answer no question? What means "How's that Russian oil taste?". What do you like to say with this words?

 

[Dwell]

When was the last time you voted on a federal law?
How many state laws have you voted on?

Never and none.

 

[ActionJackson]

A failure of a democracy is a failure of its people. Look at us! Are we Americans the stupidest people on the planet? A democracy requires agreement among the people, yet we can't even agree that we even are a democracy. Our nation appears to be failing. The only thing nearly all people can agree on is - exactly who is responsible for our failure. Nearly everyone will say "It's the Other Side!". And they have PROOF! They can provide links to mounds of evidence on the internet supporting their beliefs. The problem with the internet is, and we should all know this by now, no matter what your beliefs are or how crazy they are, you can always find supporting evidence for them on the internet. There undoubtedly is some honest, rational information available on the internet, but who needs it if it challenges our own beliefs and there is an unlimited amount of alternative 'truth' online that we can spread instead?

Without blaming "the Other Side", can anyone see a way out of this mess?

“Democracy” will likely never work.

America is a Constitutional Republic. It had a chance to work until she allowed a ton of foreign nationals onto her shores and allowed them to bring their anti-American ideals, religions, and cultures with them. They then tried to turn America from a Republic into a Democracy. She's been swirling down the proverbial toilet ever since.

 

[Dwell]

That is the problem with politics today. They will not compromise. The parties are run by the extremists. People who will accept nothing short of total victory. They won’t even speak to anyone who doesn’t agree with them 100%. It is to be victory or death.

Oh, the parties in power do compromise occasionally, just not rationally. The results of their compromises provide some benefit to each political party, but rarely any benefit at all to the citizens that elected them. That's because when citizens elect these lawmakers, they pay no attention to what qualifications these extremists might have to represent someone besides themselves.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Interesting. But wrong. We are absolutely a republic because the founders and framers were very intent to avoid the problems inherent in a democracy. We are, in fact, a Constitutional republic as an additional step to avoid democracy.

If you wish to contend that our Constitutional republic has some elements of a democracy as a part of it, I’d stipulate to that. We the People are, ultimately, the nation’s sovereigns; and that’s why we get the main say in who makes our laws and who administers and enforces our laws.

But to go from that premise to the conclusion that we are a “democracy,” is absolutely false.

You need to read the link to update your knowledge. It will also gives you a background to America's constitution as opposed to what you want it to be.