Americans prefer to live where they can own guns and protect themselves...thank goodness.....

[Brain357]

Hamilton 911 tape My son just shot himself

The 2nd Amendment is about repelling tyranny and military support. It isn't about making pussies feel safe at Kroger.

Listen to that 911 call. Then listen again.

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

The 2 million # is a completely made up number based on nothing.

Actually, as a gun grabber...you are wrong.....the 2 million number is based on 40 years of research...over 19 studies on the topic of using guns for self defense done by separate researchers in criminology and economics, both public and private studies, and many of the studies done by anti gun researchers...including the famous Dr. Gary Kleck who was anti gun when he did his famous research....

The majority of your own flawed surveys say it is much lower.

 

[2aguy]

Hamilton 911 tape My son just shot himself

The 2nd Amendment is about repelling tyranny and military support. It isn't about making pussies feel safe at Kroger.

Listen to that 911 call. Then listen again.

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

No not wrong that is about how many criminals are killed each year.

2 million is a fantasy number not supported by anything in reality. Everything in the real world makes it clear that number is false. Also the vast majority of gun studies say it is far less. The most accurate NCVS study says 108k.

No...you said shot and killed....there are many more criminals shot...and even more driven off......without being shot....

And brain...you keep showing that you aren't bright...the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a defensive gun study....and in fact does not ask people if they used a gun for self defense...you gun grabbers have to cling to it tighter than a bible or a gun because it is the only study that puts the number that low....no other study puts the number below 764,000 and the average of non military, non police, civilian self defense with guns is 2 million a year....

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

The 2 million # is a completely made up number based on nothing.

Actually, as a gun grabber...you are wrong.....the 2 million number is based on 40 years of research...over 19 studies on the topic of using guns for self defense done by separate researchers in criminology and economics, both public and private studies, and many of the studies done by anti gun researchers...including the famous Dr. Gary Kleck who was anti gun when he did his famous research....

The majority of your own flawed surveys say it is much lower.

They aren't my surveys brain...they were conducted by actual researchers...in criminology, economics and executed by professional researchers........

 

[2aguy]

Hamilton 911 tape My son just shot himself

The 2nd Amendment is about repelling tyranny and military support. It isn't about making pussies feel safe at Kroger.

Listen to that 911 call. Then listen again.

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

And we have like 500 more accidental gun deaths than any other civilized country.

So. Europe killed 12 million people because they were Jewish, Gypsies, christians, gays, and other undesirables.......and Russia murdered 25 million...and China killed 70 million.....

505 accidental gun deaths in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands and over 90 million homes with guns in them and over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns on a daily basis for self defense....shows that we are a very responsible, gun owning people....and as more of our people own and carry guns...that number has gone down, not up......same with gun murders that number is going down, not up as well...

And if you take out the gang killings...the drug killings...our gun murder rate is as low or lower than Europe.....and we didn't mass murder 12 million people..........and no the Indians don't count...disease did that, not genocide....

and we didn't murder 25 million or 75 million people either......

 

[LoneLaugher]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

I'm an American who prefers to live where I DON'T have to carry a gun to protect myself.

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

 

[2aguy]

And here is the research, again....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[LoneLaugher]

Hamilton 911 tape My son just shot himself

The 2nd Amendment is about repelling tyranny and military support. It isn't about making pussies feel safe at Kroger.

Listen to that 911 call. Then listen again.

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

The 2 million # is a completely made up number based on nothing.

Actually, as a gun grabber...you are wrong.....the 2 million number is based on 40 years of research...over 19 studies on the topic of using guns for self defense done by separate researchers in criminology and economics, both public and private studies, and many of the studies done by anti gun researchers...including the famous Dr. Gary Kleck who was anti gun when he did his famous research....

It is bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

I'm an American who prefers to live where I DON'T have to carry a gun to protect myself.

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

The 2 million # is a completely made up number based on nothing.

Actually, as a gun grabber...you are wrong.....the 2 million number is based on 40 years of research...over 19 studies on the topic of using guns for self defense done by separate researchers in criminology and economics, both public and private studies, and many of the studies done by anti gun researchers...including the famous Dr. Gary Kleck who was anti gun when he did his famous research....

It is bullshit.

Right on time....emote...not reason.....or proof......should I start the countdown where you use the words "Fetish", "Penis" or "compensating"?

 

[orogenicman]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

I'm an American who prefers to live where I DON'T have to carry a gun to protect myself.

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

 

[2aguy]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

I'm an American who prefers to live where I DON'T have to carry a gun to protect myself.

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

You know...there actually has been a time without guns......and people slaughtered each other with swords, axes, arrows and spears........so your utopia has existed...and it was far more brutal and bloody than today....

And the victims were helpless in the face of aggressive, stronger more numerous attackers...while today the smaller, weaker, the old, the injured, a woman.......can all face off against stronger, more numerous or armed attackers and win....

Did you see my post about the woman who fought off 5 male home invaders....as a cancer survivor...and her gun made that possible...

Or the woman confronted by two men with a baseball bat who told her she was going to go with them....she pulled out her gun and they ran away...I also posted that story....


And of course Britian, with strict gun control is 2 times as violent as the United States...please explain how that works.....

 

[orogenicman]

I'm an American who prefers to live where I DON'T have to carry a gun to protect myself.

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

In what alternative universe? If there are no guns, there can be no gun deaths. And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means. But there are no other deaths as efficient is death by gun. If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife. The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands.

 

[Brain357]

Hamilton 911 tape My son just shot himself

The 2nd Amendment is about repelling tyranny and military support. It isn't about making pussies feel safe at Kroger.

Listen to that 911 call. Then listen again.

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

No not wrong that is about how many criminals are killed each year.

2 million is a fantasy number not supported by anything in reality. Everything in the real world makes it clear that number is false. Also the vast majority of gun studies say it is far less. The most accurate NCVS study says 108k.

No...you said shot and killed....there are many more criminals shot...and even more driven off......without being shot....

And brain...you keep showing that you aren't bright...the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a defensive gun study....and in fact does not ask people if they used a gun for self defense...you gun grabbers have to cling to it tighter than a bible or a gun because it is the only study that puts the number that low....no other study puts the number below 764,000 and the average of non military, non police, civilian self defense with guns is 2 million a year....

Your gun studies prove how inaccurate a gun study is. They range from 500k to 3.6 million. If they were accurate they would all arrive at a similar number.

 

[2aguy]

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

In what alternative universe? If there are no guns, there can be no gun deaths. And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means. But there are no other deaths as efficient is death by gun. If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife. The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands.

And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means.

Thanks...that pretty much makes your point silly.....you only care if a gun kills them......right?

If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife.

You do realize that more people are killed with knives than with all category of rifles don't you....but you want to ban the tool that kills fewer people...right?

The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands

1) they still have gun murders in Japan...you know that right?

2) it isn't that they don't have guns...it is that they live in a police state...the police can search you anytime they want for any reason at all...and they can search your home when they want and do so at least once a year....they can beat suspects into confessing and the judges don't care....and they can hold you without letting you see an attorney and when you see the attorney he is more interested in not offending the judge and the police than representing you...

and that is how they have over a 95% conviction rate.....try comparing that to the bitching and moaning you gun grabbers made about stop and frisk in New York....or the treatment of these suspects at the hands of American police...then tell me you want to be like Japan...

That is how Japan keeps gun crime low..

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmm...over 11.1 million people carry guns for protection.....accidental gun deaths in 2013...505

not exactly a problem is it....?

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

No not wrong that is about how many criminals are killed each year.

2 million is a fantasy number not supported by anything in reality. Everything in the real world makes it clear that number is false. Also the vast majority of gun studies say it is far less. The most accurate NCVS study says 108k.

No...you said shot and killed....there are many more criminals shot...and even more driven off......without being shot....

And brain...you keep showing that you aren't bright...the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a defensive gun study....and in fact does not ask people if they used a gun for self defense...you gun grabbers have to cling to it tighter than a bible or a gun because it is the only study that puts the number that low....no other study puts the number below 764,000 and the average of non military, non police, civilian self defense with guns is 2 million a year....

Your gun studies prove how inaccurate a gun study is. They range from 500k to 3.6 million. If they were accurate they would all arrive at a similar number.

Brain....the studies are compelling because of the length of time they cover, the number of different researchers and the fact that many of those researchers were anti gun researchers...which would afffect their numbers.....


And not one of them is under 764,000...that I have access to......and the obama CDC study from 2013...an anti gun study...as you point out shows all the research they had access to...which is far more than me.......was 500,000 or more....the extent of the research shows you are wrong brain.....

 

[2aguy]

Same here......but I live in RealVille as Rush puts it........if you find Utopia...let me know...I'll move there too....

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

In what alternative universe? If there are no guns, there can be no gun deaths. And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means. But there are no other deaths as efficient is death by gun. If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife. The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands.

If you want to understand the truth and reality of Japanese gun control...here you go...tell me you want these powers for American police officers......

Japanese Gun Control

III. A Police State

Illegal gun possession, like illegal drug possession, is a consensual offense. There is no victim to complain to the police. Accordingly, in order to find illegal guns, the Japanese police are given broad search and seizure powers. The basic firearms law permits a policeman to search a person's belongings if the officer judges there is 'sufficient suspicion that a person is carrying a fire-arm, a sword or a knife' or if he judges that a person 'is likely to endanger life or body of other persons judging reasonably from his abnormal behavior or any other surrounding circumstances'.[32] Once a weapon is found, the policeman may confiscate it. Even if the confiscation is later admitted to be an error, the firearm is sometimes not returned.[33](p.29)

In practice, the special law for weapons searches is not necessary, since the police routinely search at will. They ask suspicious characters to show them what is in their purse or sack.[34] In the rare cases where a policeman's search (for a gun or any other contraband) is ruled illegal, it hardly matters; the Japanese courts permit the use of illegally seized evidence.[35] And legal rules aside, Japanese, both criminals and ordinary citizens, are much the more willing than their American counterparts to consent to searches and to answer questions from the police.[36]

'Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police...' explains the Japanese National Police Agency. In twice-a-year visit, officers fill out Residence Information Cards about who lives where and which family member to contact in case of emergency, what relation people in the house have to each other, what kind of work they do, if they work late, and what kind of cars they own.[37] The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure that no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.[38]

The close surveillance of gun owners and householders comports with the police tradition of keeping close tabs on many private activities.[39]For example, the nation's official year-end police report includes statistics like 'Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct'. The police recorded 9,402 such incidents in 1985, and determined that 37.4 per cent of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had sex 'voluntarily'. The two leading reasons for having sex voluntarily were 'out of curiosity' for 19.6 per cent, and 'liked particular boy', for 18.1 per cent.[40] The fact that police keep records on sex is simply a reflection of their keeping an eye on everything, including guns. Every person is the subject of a police dossier.[41]

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After the arrest, a suspect may be detained without bail for up to 28 days before the prosecutor brings the suspect before a judge.[42] Even after the 28 day period is completed, detention in a Japanese police station may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Rearrest on another charge, bekken taihö, is a common police tactic for starting the suspect on another 28 day interrogation process. 'Rearrest' may (p.30)occur while the suspect is still being held at the police station on the first charge. Some defendants may be held for several months without ever being brought before a judge.[43] Courts approve 99.5 per cent of prosecutors' requests for detentions.[44]

Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a suspect in custody, and those meetings are strictly limited. In the months while a suspect is held prisoner, the defense counsel may see his or her client for one to five meetings lasting about 15 minutes each. Even that access will be denied if it hampers the police investigation. While under detention, suspects can be interrogated 12 hours a day, allowed to bathe only every fifth day, and may be prohibited from standing up, lying down, or leaning against the wall of their jail cells.[45] Amnesty International calls the Japanese police custody system a 'flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles'.[46]

The confession rate is 95 per cent.[47] As a Tokyo police sergeant observes, 'It is no use to protest against power'.[48] Suspects are not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and suspects commonly complain that their confession was altered after signature. The police use confession as their main investigative technique, and when that fails, they can become frustrated and angry.

The Tokyo Bar Association states that the police routinely 'engage in torture or illegal treatment'. The Tokyo Bar is particularly critical of the judiciary for its near-total disinterest in coercion during the confession process.

'Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions'.[49]

In Japan, the legal system is, in effect, an omnipotent and unitary state authority. All law enforcement administrators in Japan are appointed by the National Police Agency and receive their funding from the NPA. Hence, the police are insulated from complaints from politicians or other citizens.[50] There is hardly any check on the power of the state, save its own conscience.

What does the breadth of police powers have to do with gun controls? Japanese gun controls exist in a society where there is little need for guns for self-defense. Police powers make it difficult for owners of illegal guns to hide them. Most importantly, the Japanese criminal justice system is based on the Government possessing the inherent authority to do whatever it wishes. In a society where almost everyone accepts nearly limitless, unchecked Government power, people do not wish to own guns to resist oppression or to protect themselves in case the criminal justice system fails.

Extensive police authority is one reason the Japanese gun control system works.

 

[Brain357]

Only 230 criminals shot and killed each year. So you are twice as likely to be accidently shot and killed than to kill a criminal. Also more likely to be accidentally shot and killed than killed by a criminal in a home invasion. And with 17000 accidental shootings each year you are twice as likely to be accidently shot as intentionally killed.

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

No not wrong that is about how many criminals are killed each year.

2 million is a fantasy number not supported by anything in reality. Everything in the real world makes it clear that number is false. Also the vast majority of gun studies say it is far less. The most accurate NCVS study says 108k.

No...you said shot and killed....there are many more criminals shot...and even more driven off......without being shot....

And brain...you keep showing that you aren't bright...the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a defensive gun study....and in fact does not ask people if they used a gun for self defense...you gun grabbers have to cling to it tighter than a bible or a gun because it is the only study that puts the number that low....no other study puts the number below 764,000 and the average of non military, non police, civilian self defense with guns is 2 million a year....

Your gun studies prove how inaccurate a gun study is. They range from 500k to 3.6 million. If they were accurate they would all arrive at a similar number.

Brain....the studies are compelling because of the length of time they cover, the number of different researchers and the fact that many of those researchers were anti gun researchers...which would afffect their numbers.....


And not one of them is under 764,000...that I have access to......and the obama CDC study from 2013...an anti gun study...as you point out shows all the research they had access to...which is far more than me.......was 500,000 or more....the extent of the research shows you are wrong brain.....

All your studies have been debunked. They are filled with false positives. Since the majority of studies are below your 2 million it makes no sense to claim that number. Your own studies counter that claim. Just like your own studies prove how inaccurate they are.

The CDC did not estimate dgu. I have corrected you on that many times. Stop lying.

What stat from reality supports your fantasy numbers?

 

[orogenicman]

Would there be handguns and automatic weapons in your utopia?

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

In what alternative universe? If there are no guns, there can be no gun deaths. And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means. But there are no other deaths as efficient is death by gun. If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife. The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands.

And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means.

Thanks...that pretty much makes your point silly.....you only care if a gun kills them......right?

If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife.

You do realize that more people are killed with knives than with all category of rifles don't you....but you want to ban the tool that kills fewer people...right?

That's because rifles aren't generally used for defense. But you knew that already.

The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands

1) they still have gun murders in Japan...you know that right?[/quote]

Yes, In Japan, there were 11 murders by guns in 2008. You really want to compare this to the number that occurred in the U.S. that year?

2) it isn't that they don't have guns...it is that they live in a police state...the police can search you anytime they want for any reason at all...and they can search your home when they want and do so at least once a year....they can beat suspects into confessing and the judges don't care....and they can hold you without letting you see an attorney and when you see the attorney he is more interested in not offending the judge and the police than representing you...

It absolutely is that they don't have guns. Police state? Japan today is one of the most peaceful nations on the planet. Get real.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong brain...230 criminals killed....many more are shot...most are driven off and aren't counted...since no shots were fired....

And the average number of times Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives...2 million...that is quite a bit more than injuries and accidents...which would be (using your 17,000) 17,000 non fatal accidents with guns and only 505 accidental gun deaths

And those 505 accidents...come from over 320 million guns in private hands in 90 million homes with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense.....so you point brain is...pointless........millions of people with access to guns, 90 million....and only 505 killed in accidents......and 2 million people using them to stop criminals....a win win....

No not wrong that is about how many criminals are killed each year.

2 million is a fantasy number not supported by anything in reality. Everything in the real world makes it clear that number is false. Also the vast majority of gun studies say it is far less. The most accurate NCVS study says 108k.

No...you said shot and killed....there are many more criminals shot...and even more driven off......without being shot....

And brain...you keep showing that you aren't bright...the National Crime Victimization Survey is not a defensive gun study....and in fact does not ask people if they used a gun for self defense...you gun grabbers have to cling to it tighter than a bible or a gun because it is the only study that puts the number that low....no other study puts the number below 764,000 and the average of non military, non police, civilian self defense with guns is 2 million a year....

Your gun studies prove how inaccurate a gun study is. They range from 500k to 3.6 million. If they were accurate they would all arrive at a similar number.

Brain....the studies are compelling because of the length of time they cover, the number of different researchers and the fact that many of those researchers were anti gun researchers...which would afffect their numbers.....


And not one of them is under 764,000...that I have access to......and the obama CDC study from 2013...an anti gun study...as you point out shows all the research they had access to...which is far more than me.......was 500,000 or more....the extent of the research shows you are wrong brain.....

All your studies have been debunked. They are filled with false positives. Since the majority of studies are below your 2 million it makes no sense to claim that number. Your own studies counter that claim. Just like your own studies prove how inaccurate they are.

The CDC did not estimate dgu. I have corrected you on that many times. Stop lying.

What stat from reality supports your fantasy numbers?

I never said they did Brain...they studied all the research out there...please read more slowly, you will make fewer dumb mistakes........they studied all the current gun research...and they came out with those numbers...and spent 10 million dollars to do it too......

I average the numbers of the studies to get a more accurate number....and that number for civilian only gun self defense is 2 million a year....

Anyone can read those studies if they want ......

 

[2aguy]

If there were no crime, there would be no need for guns now would there?

If there had been no guns last year in the U.S., there would have been 10,000 fewer gun deaths.

And if there had been no guns in the U.S. then there would have been 2 million more victims...on average........and those 10,000 fewer gun deaths would have been deaths by other means....

In what alternative universe? If there are no guns, there can be no gun deaths. And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means. But there are no other deaths as efficient is death by gun. If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife. The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands.

And yes, there would likely have been deaths by other means.

Thanks...that pretty much makes your point silly.....you only care if a gun kills them......right?

If you don't believe me, try killing someone with a knife.

You do realize that more people are killed with knives than with all category of rifles don't you....but you want to ban the tool that kills fewer people...right?

That's because rifles aren't generally used for defense. But you knew that already.

The fact remains that the nation with the lowest gun deaths (Japan) also has the lowest murder rate in the industrial world, and has the fewest guns in private hands

1) they still have gun murders in Japan...you know that right?

Yes, In Japan, there were 11 murders by guns in 2008. You really want to compare this to the number that occurred in the U.S. that year?

2) it isn't that they don't have guns...it is that they live in a police state...the police can search you anytime they want for any reason at all...and they can search your home when they want and do so at least once a year....they can beat suspects into confessing and the judges don't care....and they can hold you without letting you see an attorney and when you see the attorney he is more interested in not offending the judge and the police than representing you...

It absolutely is that they don't have guns. Police state? Japan today is one of the most peaceful nations on the planet. Get real.[/QUOTE]


It is a police state.....read my post on Japan and it's police.....