An Honest Conversation about Race

[ima]

What I'm saying is that today's negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves.

 

[poet]

What I'm saying is that today's negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves.

Negros? Or would it be "Negroes"? And besides, no one is using excuses, least of all "slavery"...as you're being un-PC. Whites should simply get off of their racism and actually practice the responsibility that they look for in others.

 

[katsteve2012]

What I'm saying is that today's negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves.

And maybe some of todays caucasoids should stop their whining about affirmative action practices giving today's so called "negros" an advantage over them.....especially considering that the primary beneficiaries of that program are white females like yourself.

 

[ima]

What I'm saying is that today's negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves.

And maybe some of todays caucasoids should stop their whining about affirmative action practices giving today's so called "negros" an advantage over them.....especially considering that the primary beneficiaries of that program are white females like yourself.

I think it should be on merit only, that's all.
And negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves today.

 

[katsteve2012]

What I'm saying is that today's negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves.

And maybe some of todays caucasoids should stop their whining about affirmative action practices giving today's so called "negros" an advantage over them.....especially considering that the primary beneficiaries of that program are white females like yourself.

I think it should be on merit only, that's all.
And negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves today.[/QUOTE

The reality is that all employers do not hire on merit alone. You should know that.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

should begin with the fact that a majority of Whites don't spend their days dreaming up ways to screw Blacks, whereas the majority of Blacks believe they are getting screwed by Whites. How to bridge this gulf between perceptions?

separate the races

 

[ima]

And maybe some of todays caucasoids should stop their whining about affirmative action practices giving today's so called "negros" an advantage over them.....especially considering that the primary beneficiaries of that program are white females like yourself.

I think it should be on merit only, that's all.
And negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves today.

The reality is that all employers do not hire on merit alone. You should know that.

We're talking about universities. Employers should be able to hire whom they want. So merit based again. Who merits it the most according to the employer and his needs.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

An honest discussion of race recognizes jwoodie has nothing of serious impact to offer.

exactly. An honest discussion would start with truths and facts. I think most people do not want an honest discussion because of the headaches involved. Most people (in the USA) are not black. There are other minorities with beefs about society in the USA, as there are in every single nation on Earth.

Focusing on black/white issues alone speaks volumes about the OP

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have been to almost every state in this nation with the exception of 2, and have also been to several different countries on 3 continents, and I have never found any stereotypes to fit the "majority" of any specific ethnic group that I have encountered multiple times.

As far as "rap music" goes, I don't like it, do not allow it to be played in my home or cars and no one who is black within my circle does either.

In fact, I even know a number of caucasians who cannot stand country music and pickup trucks or NASCAR.

So when initially meeting them, I could have sounded quite ignorant by making a statement like "Isn't Toby Keith awesome"?

Kind like I have been asked if I have heard "Snoop Doggs" new album or asked about "soul food", which I do not eat either.

So I disagree. With some objectivity and life experience where one is paying attention, stereotypes can be avoided in an INTELLIGENT discussion pertaining to race relations.

Stereotyping is not limited to those who are biased. We all use stereotypes all the time. They are a kind of mental shortcut.

That being said, in the arena of race relations "mental shortcuts" they are too often used by individuals who as opposed to engaging in the application of critical thinking skills and objectivity, will take the "shortcut" instead of judging individuals as individuals.

Many stereotypes are empirical generalizations with a statistical basis and thus on average tend to be true. If they are not true, they wouldn’t be stereotypes. The only problem with stereotypes and empirical generalizations is that they are not always true for all individual cases. They are generalizations, not invariant laws. There are always individual exceptions to stereotypes and empirical generalizations. The danger lies in applying the empirical generalizations to individual cases, which may or may not be exceptions. But these individual exceptions do not invalidate the generalizations.

An observation, if true, becomes an empirical generalization until someone objects to it, and then it becomes a stereotype. For example, the statement “Men are taller than women” is an empirical generalization. It is in general true, but there are individual exceptions. There are many men who are shorter than the average woman, and there are many women who are taller than the average man, but these exceptions do not make the generalization untrue. Men on average are taller than women in every human society (and, by the way, there are evolutionary psychological explanations for this phenomenon, known as the sexual dimorphism in size, but that’s perhaps for a future post). Everybody knows this, but nobody calls it a stereotype because it is not unkind to anybody. Men in general like being taller than women, and women in general like being shorter than men.

As it relates to physical characteristics, generalizations are used daily. Generally, whites are typically more light complexioned than blacks, Asians are by comparison more often slighter of build and stature than blacks.

I understand that reasoning, however, applying generalizations to behavioral charateristics based on ethnicity invalidates the theory that humans are capable of rationalizing, which IMO, is a display of ignorance.

So I agree to disagree with that type of logic.

Then you disagree with many psychologists.

Your prerogative.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Guilty??? You're one stupid bitch, also. Just countering "lies" that someone is feeding someone. If that isn't white privilege "on steroids", then I don't know. Angry black man stereotype, or a normal reaction to being painted with a broad brush, and offending in the process?

You're not countering anything. You're showing your true colors.

To counter a statement like hers would be to show evidence that indicates she's wrong.

Blacks represent roughly 15 percent of the population. Almost 40 percent of those are on welfare. So yes, taxpayers are in effect "feeding" them. Likewise the whites, Hispanics, Asians and everyone else on welfare.

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy

What Do the Numbers Tell Us About Poverty?

White Americans, poor and middle-class alike, receive the vast majority of tax-funded government assistance programs, from monthly assistance to Social Security to food stamps.

TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families), the program that provides aid to single mothers, is the most well-known welfare program, but the truth is that Social Security and Medicare are also social welfare services, funded by tax dollars. To that end, nearly 70 percent of all benefits of these programs go to white people. In fact, since African Americans have lower life expectancy, many work and pay into the Social Security and Medicare programs through their tax dollars, only to have white Americans, who have a longer life expectancy, benefit from the income they've left behind.

O'Hare's research in his 2009 report "The Forgotten Fifth: Child Poverty in Rural America," reveals that 57 percent of rural poor children were white and 44 percent of all urban poor children were white. But theirs is a story rarely told, their faces hardly seen. High poverty rates for poor and working-class whites have worsened since the 2008 economic crisis. Rural white poverty was already more systemic than urban poverty. Poor whites are more likely to lack basic education levels and remain in poverty for generations.

So let's stop "spinning" and twisting the truth. I don't need to show that she's wrong....she's wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of blacks "work", "hard", everyday...so retire the myth that blacks have their hands "out" and are inherently "lazy". That is a stereotype that certain white people (with agendas) love to tout, because it makes them feel good about themselves and their lack of initiative. Stop blaming black people for your problems.

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

 

[poet]

You're not countering anything. You're showing your true colors.

To counter a statement like hers would be to show evidence that indicates she's wrong.

Blacks represent roughly 15 percent of the population. Almost 40 percent of those are on welfare. So yes, taxpayers are in effect "feeding" them. Likewise the whites, Hispanics, Asians and everyone else on welfare.

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy

What Do the Numbers Tell Us About Poverty?

White Americans, poor and middle-class alike, receive the vast majority of tax-funded government assistance programs, from monthly assistance to Social Security to food stamps.

TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families), the program that provides aid to single mothers, is the most well-known welfare program, but the truth is that Social Security and Medicare are also social welfare services, funded by tax dollars. To that end, nearly 70 percent of all benefits of these programs go to white people. In fact, since African Americans have lower life expectancy, many work and pay into the Social Security and Medicare programs through their tax dollars, only to have white Americans, who have a longer life expectancy, benefit from the income they've left behind.

O'Hare's research in his 2009 report "The Forgotten Fifth: Child Poverty in Rural America," reveals that 57 percent of rural poor children were white and 44 percent of all urban poor children were white. But theirs is a story rarely told, their faces hardly seen. High poverty rates for poor and working-class whites have worsened since the 2008 economic crisis. Rural white poverty was already more systemic than urban poverty. Poor whites are more likely to lack basic education levels and remain in poverty for generations.

So let's stop "spinning" and twisting the truth. I don't need to show that she's wrong....she's wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of blacks "work", "hard", everyday...so retire the myth that blacks have their hands "out" and are inherently "lazy". That is a stereotype that certain white people (with agendas) love to tout, because it makes them feel good about themselves and their lack of initiative. Stop blaming black people for your problems.

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

 

[ima]

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy




So let's stop "spinning" and twisting the truth. I don't need to show that she's wrong....she's wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of blacks "work", "hard", everyday...so retire the myth that blacks have their hands "out" and are inherently "lazy". That is a stereotype that certain white people (with agendas) love to tout, because it makes them feel good about themselves and their lack of initiative. Stop blaming black people for your problems.

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

As a whitey, I can admit that whites have problems too, but you're making it seem like negroids doing things wrong is ok because others are worse. Nice logic. Someone call AA, you need some help.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Whites and Welfare: GOP and the Food Stamp Fallacy




So let's stop "spinning" and twisting the truth. I don't need to show that she's wrong....she's wrong. The overwhelmingly vast majority of blacks "work", "hard", everyday...so retire the myth that blacks have their hands "out" and are inherently "lazy". That is a stereotype that certain white people (with agendas) love to tout, because it makes them feel good about themselves and their lack of initiative. Stop blaming black people for your problems.

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

Do you even understand the word "disproportionately"?

Black people that blame "whitey" for their station in life are wrong.

Why do you ignore the plight of blacks or try to justify it by pointing to other races bad behavior?

Whites are not the cause of most of the violent crime in this country. Whites are not having abortions at the rate that blacks are, whites do not have the unemployment numbers as blacks do.

Stop ignoring or defending the facts and think of some solutions.

The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and Criminal Justice in the United States

One of the most challenging and controversial issues facing the child welfare system is the disproportionate representation of ethnic minority children and families, particularly African-American children

Abortion Kills More Black Americans Than the Seven Leading Causes of Death Combined, Says CDC Data

 

[poet]

Her statement was accurate.

Your strawman failed!

When blacks stop disproportionately committing violent crimes I'll stop blaming them.

when blacks stop disproportionately get off of welfare I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having children out of wedlock I'll stop blaming them.

When black stop disproportionately having abortions I'll stop blaming them.

All the above problems the black communities face they have blamed "whitey" to one degree of another.

It is quite clear that you are not interested in debating the facts, you're more interested in defending your fellow black man. No matter how wrong they and you are.


Class dismissed.

Is your new mantra "disproportionately'???? Like whites don't commit violent crimes, and aren't the largest group on welfare, aren't having children out of wedlock, aren't having abortions, and aren't blaming minorities for their problems.
Opinions you're entitled to....not facts. The very notion that you can sit comfortably in your seat and tell me how wrong black people are as if you and yours are immaculate, "disproportionately" voids your premise and your conclusion.

As a whitey, I can admit that whites have problems too, but you're making it seem like negroids doing things wrong is ok because others are worse. Nice logic. Someone call AA, you need some help.

Not only is your post inane and poorly presented, the conclusion you drew is false.
"As a whitey"??????????????? Whoever talks like that? You term yourself with racial pejoratives? No wonder you can stereotype and discriminate with ease. Negroids??????????? LMAO. Foot in mouth, over and over. #clown

 

[poet]

 

[katsteve2012]

I think it should be on merit only, that's all.
And negros should stop using slavery as an excuse for themselves today.

The reality is that all employers do not hire on merit alone. You should know that.

We're talking about universities. Employers should be able to hire whom they want. So merit based again. Who merits it the most according to the employer and his needs.

So now it's only universities? A few days ago you tried to compare the admission practices of universities to the NBA draft.

You being a female should know that if employers could hire "only who they want", the clock may as well be set back to 1930.

 

[katsteve2012]

Stereotyping is not limited to those who are biased. We all use stereotypes all the time. They are a kind of mental shortcut.

That being said, in the arena of race relations "mental shortcuts" they are too often used by individuals who as opposed to engaging in the application of critical thinking skills and objectivity, will take the "shortcut" instead of judging individuals as individuals.

Many stereotypes are empirical generalizations with a statistical basis and thus on average tend to be true. If they are not true, they wouldn’t be stereotypes. The only problem with stereotypes and empirical generalizations is that they are not always true for all individual cases. They are generalizations, not invariant laws. There are always individual exceptions to stereotypes and empirical generalizations. The danger lies in applying the empirical generalizations to individual cases, which may or may not be exceptions. But these individual exceptions do not invalidate the generalizations.

An observation, if true, becomes an empirical generalization until someone objects to it, and then it becomes a stereotype. For example, the statement “Men are taller than women” is an empirical generalization. It is in general true, but there are individual exceptions. There are many men who are shorter than the average woman, and there are many women who are taller than the average man, but these exceptions do not make the generalization untrue. Men on average are taller than women in every human society (and, by the way, there are evolutionary psychological explanations for this phenomenon, known as the sexual dimorphism in size, but that’s perhaps for a future post). Everybody knows this, but nobody calls it a stereotype because it is not unkind to anybody. Men in general like being taller than women, and women in general like being shorter than men.

As it relates to physical characteristics, generalizations are used daily. Generally, whites are typically more light complexioned than blacks, Asians are by comparison more often slighter of build and stature than blacks.

I understand that reasoning, however, applying generalizations to behavioral charateristics based on ethnicity invalidates the theory that humans are capable of rationalizing, which IMO, is a display of ignorance.

So I agree to disagree with that type of logic.

Then you disagree with many psychologists.

Some yes, and some no.

Your prerogative.

Agreed.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

As it relates to physical characteristics, generalizations are used daily. Generally, whites are typically more light complexioned than blacks, Asians are by comparison more often slighter of build and stature than blacks.

I understand that reasoning, however, applying generalizations to behavioral charateristics based on ethnicity invalidates the theory that humans are capable of rationalizing, which IMO, is a display of ignorance.

So I agree to disagree with that type of logic.

Then you disagree with many psychologists.

Some yes, and some no.

Your prerogative.

Agreed.

Please refrain from altering my quotes.

 

[Ernie S.]

should begin with the fact that a majority of Whites don't spend their days dreaming up ways to screw Blacks, whereas the majority of Blacks believe they are getting screwed by Whites. How to bridge this gulf between perceptions?

separate the races

Send them swimming back to Africa with a Democrat under each arm???

Seriously, if "African Americans" would simply drop the "African" part and identify only as Americans, they would be well on their way to the equality King wanted.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

should begin with the fact that a majority of Whites don't spend their days dreaming up ways to screw Blacks, whereas the majority of Blacks believe they are getting screwed by Whites. How to bridge this gulf between perceptions?

separate the races

Send them swimming back to Africa with a Democrat under each arm???

Seriously, if "African Americans" would simply drop the "African" part and identify only as Americans, they would be well on their way to the equality King wanted.

Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Polish Americans, and Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, and sentient Americans all disagree