Ancient demonology

[yiostheoy]

And yet here we sit with the account of Genesis embedded in the symbols of the Chinese language.

That's not hard to justify.

Moses learned a Genesis story from his Egyptian scribes.

Egyptian scribes picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Hittites also picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Greek Sea Peoples kicked Hittites out of Anatolia into China.

Q.E.D.

This seems highly unlikely now.

More likely than your own notion that the Chinese go back many thousands of years. There is no evidence that they do.

All we know about the Chinese is their Shang dynasty.

The rest is Chinese folklore.

 

[yiostheoy]

Both of you might want to google the similarities between Jewish Passover and Chinese New Year to get closer to your answer... Israelites ended up in many diverse places even " the kingdom"

The Jews don't even believe their own Tenakh anymore.

They now think in terms of revisionist theory that Ezra or Nehemiah cooked up the Tenakh in Persia around 450 BCE.

 

[hobelim]

Both of you might want to google the similarities between Jewish Passover and Chinese New Year to get closer to your answer... Israelites ended up in many diverse places even " the kingdom"

The Jews don't even believe their own Tenakh anymore.

They now think in terms of revisionist theory that Ezra or Nehemiah cooked up the Tenakh in Persia around 450 BCE.

When the Jews returned from exile they brought with them differing mosaic texts and traditions that evolved independently during exile that were awkwardly woven together and redacted by nameless editors.

Its as if the early church took the four gospels and wove them together into one story.

 

[Hawkins]

The most ancient concept of a demon (daemon in Greek) comes from the Assyrians of the 25th Century BCE.

This demon was a bringer of storms and drought.

The demon was corporeal and comprised of the torso of a man, the head of a doglike lion, talons of an eagle, two pairs of wings, and a scorpion's tail.

The notion of demons as living intelligences that bring evil to mankind is therefore ancient and predates Old Testament (Tenakh) references by 1,000 years.

This notion then entered religion by way of the stories told by the Biblical authors.

In the Greek New Testament, Jesus Himself confronts this master demon in the wilderness and was tempted by him to give up His own mission and succumb to wealth and worldly power.

Pazuzu - Wikipedia

Humans failed to keep most of their documents. The absence of earlier documents won't make your statement true. Today's humans can acquire up to 0.000000000001% overall documents possibly written 25th Century BCE or earlier, plus that not all human ethnic groups had writing capability which by no means says that they didn't have the demon concept back then. So your statement can stand a possible truth only when "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence".

That said. Demons may be something different from the fallen angels as demons have the obsession of occupying a physical body. Most likely they once have such a physical body. Demons could be the giants of their descendants as a result of "the sons of god" married the daughters of humans.

They could also be trained human spirits (trained by the fallen angels to have acquired some sort of specialties, such as possessing humans).

 

[ding]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

>>A 2003 report in Antiquity interpreted them "not as writing itself, but as features of a lengthy period of sign-use which led eventually to a fully-fledged system of writing."[2] The earliest known body of writing in the oracle bone script dates much later to the reign of the late Shang dynasty king Wu Ding (c. 1200 BC)<<

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

>>A 2003 report in Antiquity interpreted them "not as writing itself, but as features of a lengthy period of sign-use which led eventually to a fully-fledged system of writing."[2] The earliest known body of writing in the oracle bone script dates much later to the reign of the late Shang dynasty king Wu Ding (c. 1200 BC)<<

However, the Chinese and American researchers claim their findings may overturn long-held convictions about where the evolution of Chinese writing began. After studying the artifacts from a site called Jiahu, in central China's Henan Province, they have proposed that the pictograms inscribed onto animal bones and shells unearthed there predate the jiaguwen used in the Shang Dynasty (c. 16 century-11 century BC).

The Jiahu site dates back more than 7,000 years. The researchers' findings have been covered by the British Broadcasting Corporation and US television networks because, if proven correct, it would mean the Jiahu "signs" would predated the writing of Mesopotamia by more than 2,000 years. The researchers have won support from some archaeologists but been challenged by others, who call their hypothesis "nonsense." "There is nothing new here," Robert Murowchick, a Boston University archaeologist told Science magazine. He reportedly dismissed the notion "simple geometric signs" can be linked to early writing. Andrew Lawler from Science magazine commented: "The research is sure to fire up a long-standing debate about how Chinese writing evolved and whether religious practices spurred its origin."

Discovery in Jiahu
The project is based in University of Science and Technology of China (USTC), winning state sponsorship. The research team was led by Li Xueqin, a renowned historian and archaeologist. It also includes archaeologists Zhang Juzhong and Wang Changsui from USTC in Hefei, capital of east China's Anhui Province, as well as Garman Harbottle, a researcher with Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York. Their work is based on the 1983-87 excavation of the Jiahu site, which was discovered in 1962. The site has been carbon dated to between 7,000 and 5,800 BC." Since the excavation began, we had noticed tortoise shells, which contain pebbles of various colors and shapes, in the graves. We paid special attention as similar shells appeared in Yinxu, where the oracle bones or jiaguwen were found," said Zhang Juzhong, then leader of the excavation team from Henan Institute of Archaeology. Everyday Zhang looked through the shells newly unearthed to see if there were markings. And finally, on an afternoon in May, 1987, an intern student from Zhengzhou University, Henan, found a stone tool inscribed with a series of signs. The next day, archaeologists opened Grave M344, and saw an adult male whose head was missing. Where his head would have been were eight sets of tortoise shells and one fork-shaped bone artifact. Zhang picked up one nearly complete plastron -- part of a tortoise shell -- pierced with a hole. "It felt so smooth," he recalled. "Its owners must have often held it in their hands." He carefully brushed off the dust, and on the lower middle part of the plastron was an eye-shaped sign, which greatly resembled the later jiaguwen pictograph for "eye" in the Yinxu oracle bones. "We were exhilarated, and bought meat and liquor for celebration," recalled Zhang. Team member Wang Changsui said the tortoise shell was also faintly marked with a resemblance of a man holding an object with the same fork-like shape as the artifact. He believes the sign is related to ancient divination. Another plastron was incised with two vertical strokes, fairly similar to the character for "20" in the jiaguwen inscriptions found at Yinxu, said the research paper. Up to 16 signs were found on 14 fragments of tortoise shells, pottery, bone and stone artifacts in the excavation. The Jiahu site had already revealed a society of unexpected complexity, with 45 house foundations, 370 cellars, nine pottery kilns, and 349 graves containing objects including tools, ornaments, and ritual or musical artifacts.
The Jiahu site has revealed several important discoveries, including the earliest known musical instruments -- playable seven-hole bone flutes spanning an octave. As soon as the excavation ended, a team of researchers with the Henan Institute of Archaeology went to Beijing "with complex feelings," said Zhang. They consulted more than 10 leading archaeologists and historians, including Hu Houxuan, Su Bingqi, Li Xueqin and Zhang Zhenglang, about the signs. "Some of the scholars said the signs are early writings, made before the Yinxu oracles, and they interpreted several signs on the spot," said Zhang Juzhong. "Others said they are intentionally inscribed signs but not necessarily writings, and still others said the etchings are just marks, not signs."

Clues to writings' evolution
With no consensus from the authorities, the team returned to Henan, and Zhang started to research the curious markings. As he and fellow researchers later wrote, "while we do not challenge the primacy of Mesopotamia in human literacy, we do suggest that China, with a potential record of nine millennia, offers a unique opportunity to observe the evolutionary stages which led to the development of a script. Co-author Li Xueqin told China Daily: "We don't say they are words or languages. We do say they are signs and the earliest evidence in the world of a long line of experimentation in sign use, which led to writing." Yao Zongyi, professor with the Chinese University of Hong Kong, who did textual research on each of the signs, supported Li. He wrote, "the carved signs of Jiahu provided new materials to solve the key problems about the origin of Chinese writing." The researchers, who cannot decide at this stage what these signs represent, compare them with the jiaguwen inscriptions of 2nd millennia BC, from the Shang Dynasty. For instance, a sign inscribed on a broken plastron, which resembles the modern character for "sun," represents "window" in the Yinxu oracles. But many researchers objected to the attempt to tie " the Jiahu etchings to the Shang breakthrough," said Science magazine writer Lawler. William Boltz, professor of Classical Chinese at the University of Washington, Seattle, said: "There is a span of 5,000 years (between Jiahu and Shang period)... How can the development of Chinese writing have taken so long?" The professor noted speculation about the links between the two based on graphic similarity alone over such a great period of time is next to meaningless. "How does anyone know that the one graph is in fact the graph for 'eye'?'' he said. "It may look like an eye to someone, and it may have some general approximate graphic similarity to the graph that stood for the word for 'eye' in the Shang language, but it might just as well be a graph that stands for something else, perhaps a heap of grain under a protective cover." The span of five millennia is conspicuous because there haven't been any inscribed tortoise shells found between 6,000 BC and the Shang Dynasty in Henan or anywhere else in China. But Zhang said while no inscribed shells were found, many potteries and pot fragments from the five millennia that followed have been unearthed carrying signs, especially in the Dawenkou, Yangshao, Longshan, Liangzhu Cultures. In several cultures after Yangshao (6950-4950 BC), pottery signs grew more complex and began to be applied with writing brushes, wrote the researchers. For example, a flat pot from the late Longshan Culture (2310-1810 BC) at Taosi, north China's Shanxi Province, is brush-painted with a red sign, which is identical to the modern character wen (literature). And a jade tortoise of 5,300 years ago at Lingjiatan, east China's Anhui Province, hid a jade tablet in it, which was inscribed signs "of the same nature" as those from Jiahu. "Neolithic men may have abandoned the use of tortoise shells as a material to write on for a certain period and turned to other materials," said Zhang. "After all, the oracle bones found in Yinxu and recently in Zhengzhou were so mature that they couldn't have appeared all of a sudden," Lawler wrote the genesis of Chinese writing is even harder to pin down because "many researchers assume that there were earlier writings -- about unknown subjects -- on perishable material such as bamboo." Besides the gap of five millennia, researchers were also puzzled by the fact the Jiahu signs and others found elsewhere in China before the Longshan Culture were mostly single markings, while the jiaguwen oracles were written in sentences at Yinxu. "That fact pushes us back to the slippery question of what writing is, and if a single character accounts for writing," said Zhang. If the single signs from Jiahu are writing, Chinese writing could be traced back to about nine millennia ago. More "ifs" may lie in Jiahu, where only 5 per cent of the site has been excavated, and meanwhile many other Neolithic sites remain untouched. "The present state of archaeological record in China, which has never had the intensive examination of, for example, Egypt or Greece, does not permit us to say 'in which period of the Neolithic did the Chinese invent their writing?'" wrote the researchers. "What did persist through these long periods was the idea of sign use."

Archaeologists Rewrite History

 

[ding]

 

[yiostheoy]

Cut and paste definitely is your forte.

Too bad it is not intro, body, and conclusion.

Nor facts, logic, and valid conclusions.

You should marry a Chinese girl -- she'll love you long time.

 

[ding]

And yet here we sit with the account of Genesis embedded in the symbols of the Chinese language.

That's not hard to justify.

Moses learned a Genesis story from his Egyptian scribes.

Egyptian scribes picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Hittites also picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Greek Sea Peoples kicked Hittites out of Anatolia into China.

Q.E.D.

This seems highly unlikely now.

More likely than your own notion that the Chinese go back many thousands of years. There is no evidence that they do.

All we know about the Chinese is their Shang dynasty.

The rest is Chinese folklore.

We know that their written language contains the account of Genesis.

 

[yiostheoy]

The most ancient concept of a demon (daemon in Greek) comes from the Assyrians of the 25th Century BCE.

This demon was a bringer of storms and drought.

The demon was corporeal and comprised of the torso of a man, the head of a doglike lion, talons of an eagle, two pairs of wings, and a scorpion's tail.

The notion of demons as living intelligences that bring evil to mankind is therefore ancient and predates Old Testament (Tenakh) references by 1,000 years.

This notion then entered religion by way of the stories told by the Biblical authors.

In the Greek New Testament, Jesus Himself confronts this master demon in the wilderness and was tempted by him to give up His own mission and succumb to wealth and worldly power.

Pazuzu - Wikipedia

Humans failed to keep most of their documents. The absence of earlier documents won't make your statement true. Today's humans can acquire up to 0.000000000001% overall documents possibly written 25th Century BCE or earlier, plus that not all human ethnic groups had writing capability which by no means says that they didn't have the demon concept back then. So your statement can stand a possible truth only when "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence".

That said. Demons may be something different from the fallen angels as demons have the obsession of occupying a physical body. Most likely they once have such a physical body. Demons could be the giants of their descendants as a result of "the sons of god" married the daughters of humans.

They could also be trained human spirits (trained by the fallen angels to have acquired some sort of specialties, such as possessing humans).

War has destroyed most libraries around the world.

But even those were mostly accounting and tax records.

Hesiod, Homer, Moses, and a few others are the best sources of old narrative documents that we have. There are also more recent versions of Gilgamesh as well, concurrent with the ancient Greeks but not as ancient as Moses nor the Egyptian hieroglyphs.

The demon concept seems to be Mesopotamian. Not Egyptian nor Greek.

 

[ding]

Cut and paste definitely is your forte.

Too bad it is not intro, body, and conclusion.

Nor facts, logic, and valid conclusions.

You should marry a Chinese girl -- she'll love you long time.

We know that the cradle of civilization was Mesopotamia. We know that the Bible describes a great migration from Mesopotamia. And we know that common accounts are found in different parts of the world.

 

[ding]

The most ancient concept of a demon (daemon in Greek) comes from the Assyrians of the 25th Century BCE.

This demon was a bringer of storms and drought.

The demon was corporeal and comprised of the torso of a man, the head of a doglike lion, talons of an eagle, two pairs of wings, and a scorpion's tail.

The notion of demons as living intelligences that bring evil to mankind is therefore ancient and predates Old Testament (Tenakh) references by 1,000 years.

This notion then entered religion by way of the stories told by the Biblical authors.

In the Greek New Testament, Jesus Himself confronts this master demon in the wilderness and was tempted by him to give up His own mission and succumb to wealth and worldly power.

Pazuzu - Wikipedia

Humans failed to keep most of their documents. The absence of earlier documents won't make your statement true. Today's humans can acquire up to 0.000000000001% overall documents possibly written 25th Century BCE or earlier, plus that not all human ethnic groups had writing capability which by no means says that they didn't have the demon concept back then. So your statement can stand a possible truth only when "the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence".

That said. Demons may be something different from the fallen angels as demons have the obsession of occupying a physical body. Most likely they once have such a physical body. Demons could be the giants of their descendants as a result of "the sons of god" married the daughters of humans.

They could also be trained human spirits (trained by the fallen angels to have acquired some sort of specialties, such as possessing humans).

War has destroyed most libraries around the world.

But even those were mostly accounting and tax records.

Hesiod, Homer, Moses, and a few others are the best sources of old narrative documents that we have. There are also more recent versions of Gilgamesh as well, concurrent with the ancient Greeks but not as ancient as Moses nor the Egyptian hieroglyphs.

The demon concept seems to be Mesopotamian. Not Egyptian nor Greek.

Homer? Seriously? Homer's Iliad occurred in 900 BC, the earliest known copy was from 400 BC, 500 years after the event. There are a total of 643 known copies which have a 95% accuracy between copies. There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament with a 99.5% accuracy between copies. The earliest being only 100 years after the event. It seems you have selective standards.

 

[HaShev]

It's 616 originally not 666

You never made a good argument for that declaration and would be calling preachers wrong.
And using that standard Jesus is originally Baal not Yeshu of 100bc, not Yehuda of Galilee 6bc, not Theudas by the Jordan 45ad.

THE OT USES EZEKIEL 28 to describe the fallen one which describes the son of perdition as a perfect image of a man who falls for claiming to be a god in the midst of the seas(Rome). By using your standard that Jesus is not originally any Singular historical christ means he's an image of a man made by admittingly an evil empire known as the adversary (sawtawn) of the holy ones.

Here is what the Proto-Sinaitic letters represent:
X – Tav: is a mark or sign, also written as a cross + (mark of death)
–
I – Vav: means to attach, like a peg or nail, or fixed into like a hook in a fish.
–
C – Lamed : means to direct, as in giving instructions, like the goad used to herd oxen. The verb form of Lamed means to prick or puncture as in using a sharp object to pierce the skin.

 

[shimon]

It should be pointed out Michael that it is hard to pin down followers of Jesus because even though they insist that their leader/ saviour belongs in many passages in the tanach and place him there purposely and with deceit one can never pin them down because they slip and slide and try every angle to push their cause. When they are shown their errors usually using mistranslations and when constantly shown their errors they still insist .... It is like a child demanding more candy even though his / her teeth are starting to rot out of their mouths...That being said once again none can deny that Jesus according to their own book has the " key" to hell or the bottomless pit..This should set off alarm bells.. It does not take a genius to figure out that only one individual could have this key either Satan or Lucifer take your pick what you want to call him...Further even when i showed them another place that Jesus fit 666 the 616 was brought up and I showed the passage in John 6;16 where he did the exact same thing no wonder no one wants to read further and have a look at John 6 :66 where they finally turn away from him...

 

[ding]

It should be pointed out Michael that it is hard to pin down followers of Jesus because even though they insist that their leader/ saviour belongs in many passages in the tanach and place him there purposely and with deceit one can never pin them down because they slip and slide and try every angle to push their cause. When they are shown their errors usually using mistranslations and when constantly shown their errors they still insist .... It is like a child demanding more candy even though his / her teeth are starting to rot out of their mouths...That being said once again none can deny that Jesus according to their own book has the " key" to hell or the bottomless pit..This should set off alarm bells.. It does not take a genius to figure out that only one individual could have this key either Satan or Lucifer take your pick what you want to call him...Further even when i showed them another place that Jesus fit 666 the 616 was brought up and I showed the passage in John 6;16 where he did the exact same thing no wonder no one wants to read further and have a look at John 6 :66 where they finally turn away from him...

Do you believe that God actively works in your life today?

 

[shimon]

Alright Ding you have treated me with respect so far so I will answer you...I have been involved with Michael since 99... I did not like how he was being treated therefore I stepped in.... The psalms seem to corealate to the years for example 48 to the birth of Israel , 67 to the enlargement of the state of Israel fourfold... 91 to the gulf war and the scuds that killed no Israeli ... There are many others some are personal 99 is such a one I have another name besides Shimon... Read it and you will have your answer whether you wish to believe it or not is your choice...

 

[HaShev]

It should be pointed out Michael that it is hard to pin down followers of Jesus because even though they insist that their leader/ saviour belongs in many passages in the tanach and place him there purposely and with deceit one can never pin them down because they slip and slide and try every angle to push their cause. When they are shown their errors usually using mistranslations and when constantly shown their errors they still insist .... It is like a child demanding more candy even though his / her teeth are starting to rot out of their mouths...That being said once again none can deny that Jesus according to their own book has the " key" to hell or the bottomless pit..This should set off alarm bells.. It does not take a genius to figure out that only one individual could have this key either Satan or Lucifer take your pick what you want to call him...Further even when i showed them another place that Jesus fit 666 the 616 was brought up and I showed the passage in John 6;16 where he did the exact same thing no wonder no one wants to read further and have a look at John 6 :66 where they finally turn away from him...

I'm hoping that now that the history channel is using more and more of my references that expose the priests of Bel that people will recognize the corelation in Daniels time to the priests in our day.
Just replace grains with money and they have the exact resemblances to learn through. At the same time I hope they see Leah Remini's show about Scientology and recognize the resemblances to their own protective tactics like their open game on critics of their own faith. Including how they attack critics online for merely helping people get out of the one world Roman spread religion that acts like a cult.
Hence my prior dead sea scrolls posts on recognizing resemblances, how things are and function and relate in mirror reflections to help recognize the similar stance.
By recognizing something as wrong in something else that mirrors their own belief & behavior makes self revelation and deprograming much easier then without sound reflective examples. It's because pride blinds them from seeing the
obvious, so it has to be recognized by them in emulated form, but non internal (not their own affiliation) instances which pride never allows to notice. At least not until it clicks and they see themselves in that mirror reflection.

 

[ding]

Alright Ding you have treated me with respect so far so I will answer you...I have been involved with Michael since 99... I did not like how he was being treated therefore I stepped in.... The psalms seem to corealate to the years for example 48 to the birth of Israel , 67 to the enlargement of the state of Israel fourfold... 91 to the gulf war and the scuds that killed no Israeli ... There are many others some are personal 99 is such a one I have another name besides Shimon... Read it and you will have your answer whether you wish to believe it or not is your choice...

I try to treat everyone with respect. It doesn't always work out. I don't know who Michael is. Who is Michael? I thought you were Jewish. I am trying to understand whether Jews believe that the spirit of God works in their lives. I am interested because I am curious about the beliefs of others.

 

[shimon]

I am glad you try to treat everyone with respect...Yes I am Jewish. Michael is Hashev...

 

[yiostheoy]

Alright Ding you have treated me with respect so far so I will answer you...I have been involved with Michael since 99... I did not like how he was being treated therefore I stepped in.... The psalms seem to corealate to the years for example 48 to the birth of Israel , 67 to the enlargement of the state of Israel fourfold... 91 to the gulf war and the scuds that killed no Israeli ... There are many others some are personal 99 is such a one I have another name besides Shimon... Read it and you will have your answer whether you wish to believe it or not is your choice...

I try to treat everyone with respect. It doesn't always work out. I don't know who Michael is. Who is Michael? I thought you were Jewish. I am trying to understand whether Jews believe that the spirit of God works in their lives. I am interested because I am curious about the beliefs of others.

The Spirit Of God is mentioned in the Tenakh.

 

[yiostheoy]

Do you believe that God actively works in your life today?

There is a ton of evidence that God is a Deist God not a Theist God.

Otherwise it would not have taken God so long to help the Jews of Germany who were being gassed by Adolf.

God saved them eventually but not right away.

And to save them God required the help of FDR and of Gen. Ike.