Ancient demonology

[ding]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

 

[yiostheoy]

I agree for the most part. This is what is alluded to by the verse that says that before there was light, the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep - millions of years of prehistory when our ancestors were ignorant about much about life on earth and only had superstitions to explain the unknown.

I disagree that whoever wrote this story to teach their children about the realities of life were simple.

"let there be light" is not about the solar system even if the light of the sun or the stars were used as metaphors. The fact that metaphors were used and expected to be understood by children is evidence of complex thinking abilities and an understanding about the nature of the human mind that even the greatest fundamentalist believer out there in this day and age lacks completely.

This was Moses' story which he used to brainwash the Hebrews with after he led them out of Egypt. Not sure where he got it. Probably just dreamed it all up.

The fact that it was recorded as symbols over 4,500 years ago says otherwise. I thought you were a Catholic? Are you telling mt that you believe that the account of Genesis is made up?

There is no question that Moses or someone like him centuries later made up the Genesis/Bereshet story.

All you yourself are doing is regurgitating Catholic preschool stories.

You are going to need Catholic deprogramming at some point in your life.

Give it 40 or so more years.

I don't believe any of it was made up. I believe they (i.e. not necessarily moses) were shown visions and allowed to put it in their own words. A strong case can be made that they knew things they should not have known. But you keep leading your double life.

Moses couldn't write like God. God told him what to write. There are codes embedded in the book that man can't replicate, let alone originate.
And, there are metaphors in the Bible. But, the Bible isn't a metaphor. Take it literally. That way you don't have to lean on your own understanding for the meaning. Literally, the Bible has stood the test of archaeological time. For instance, destroying Sodom and Gomorrah isn't a metaphor, God toasted them. One could only argue that it was a metaphor until we uncovered an eye witness's account.

Not only was Genesis not a metaphor, but from it, taken literally, in the 12 century a noted scientist and astronomer concluded that there were not 3 dimensions, but 10. 4 seen, 6 unseen.
Fast track to the end of the 20th century and lo and behold, science finally thinks that there are 10 dimensions. 4 seen, 6 unseen. The literal Bible proceeds science at every turn.

Christ didn't use metaphors or euphemisms to refute Satan in the wilderness and hope he interpreted it correctly. He used scripture to defeat Satan. Word for word, literal scripture. When He said, "Man does not live by bread alone." He was referring to bread.
40 scribes, at different times, in different locations, but all under the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, wrote 66 books over a span of 1500 years that were miraculously cohesive, and able to be inter-fused, and is impossible for us to do. Then embed a numeric code through out it all, so we'd have no doubt about who the author was.
The only thing man had to do with that book is hold the pen.

Moses tells us that "a God" spoke to him for the fist time from a bush that seemed to burn with fire but was not consumed.

This God also told Moses of one of his names which harkens back to ancient Hebrew times as well. Presumably Abraham knew this name as well. The name means "I am, I was, I shall be."

Whether this is true or not we shall never know.

Moses could have dreamed this all up.

From Exodus Chap. 2:11 Moses is speaking for himself presumably.

Everything before 2:11 Moses must have either dreamed up or he was told it by someone else. That clearly makes it hear-say.

God only spoke to Moses a few times.

Certainly God did not dictate the entire Torah to him. That's not how it was drawn up.

And then again, as I said, modern Jewish revisionist history and dogma puts the invention of the Tenakh (Old Testament) in the Persian Era of Jewish captivity around 450 BCE. They don't believe there ever was a Moses. The revisionists attribute the creation of Judaism to Ezra and Nehemiah. Not Moses.

 

[yiostheoy]

If you want to know where God came from, you'll have to ask Him when you get there. He didn't say. Only that He is the beginning and the end.

I am sure God will tell us where He/She/They evolved/developed from when They/She/he is/are good and ready to tell us.

In the meantime it is probably none of our business. In the meantime we only have Philosophical Speculation as analytical tools to guide us.

We have 12 major world religions to choose from and they are all relatively nonviolent (except for Islam) and they all have rules of law, ethics, and crime written into them (although Islam is rather schizophrenic).

 

[aris2chat]

sun burns constantly. The only day and night comes from the rotation of the earth so those on one side face away from the sun.
Sun came first, no the planets.

Bible is a simple explanation for simple man, not factual. From the perception of man, who was not there in the beginning, it is a wild guess.

It took millions of years and a number of extinctions before man's ancestor first crawled.

I agree for the most part. This is what is alluded to by the verse that says that before there was light, the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep - millions of years of prehistory when our ancestors were ignorant about much about life on earth and only had superstitions to explain the unknown.

I disagree that whoever wrote this story to teach their children about the realities of life were simple.

"let there be light" is not about the solar system even if the light of the sun or the stars were used as metaphors. The fact that metaphors were used and expected to be understood by children is evidence of complex thinking abilities and an understanding about the nature of the human mind that even the greatest fundamentalist believer out there in this day and age lacks completely.

This was Moses' story which he used to brainwash the Hebrews with after he led them out of Egypt. Not sure where he got it. Probably just dreamed it all up.

The fact that it was recorded as symbols over 4,500 years ago says otherwise. I thought you were a Catholic? Are you telling mt that you believe that the account of Genesis is made up?

There is no question that Moses or someone like him centuries later made up the Genesis/Bereshet story.

All you yourself are doing is regurgitating Catholic preschool stories.

You are going to need Catholic deprogramming at some point in your life.

Give it 40 or so more years.

I don't believe any of it was made up. I believe they (i.e. not necessarily moses) were shown visions and allowed to put it in their own words. A strong case can be made that they knew things they should not have known. But you keep leading your double life.

visions can come from a wide number of herbs in the region

Visions and dreams are not proof of god.

Yes there is evidence of some stories and a vague timeline but that is not exclusive to the bible. Many of the people after 1000 bc have outside descriptions of them.

Real events and real people to do prove god

Most of the biblical myths predate Moses from other regions and faiths.

 

[ding]

I agree for the most part. This is what is alluded to by the verse that says that before there was light, the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep - millions of years of prehistory when our ancestors were ignorant about much about life on earth and only had superstitions to explain the unknown.

I disagree that whoever wrote this story to teach their children about the realities of life were simple.

"let there be light" is not about the solar system even if the light of the sun or the stars were used as metaphors. The fact that metaphors were used and expected to be understood by children is evidence of complex thinking abilities and an understanding about the nature of the human mind that even the greatest fundamentalist believer out there in this day and age lacks completely.

This was Moses' story which he used to brainwash the Hebrews with after he led them out of Egypt. Not sure where he got it. Probably just dreamed it all up.

The fact that it was recorded as symbols over 4,500 years ago says otherwise. I thought you were a Catholic? Are you telling mt that you believe that the account of Genesis is made up?

There is no question that Moses or someone like him centuries later made up the Genesis/Bereshet story.

All you yourself are doing is regurgitating Catholic preschool stories.

You are going to need Catholic deprogramming at some point in your life.

Give it 40 or so more years.

I don't believe any of it was made up. I believe they (i.e. not necessarily moses) were shown visions and allowed to put it in their own words. A strong case can be made that they knew things they should not have known. But you keep leading your double life.

visions can come from a wide number of herbs in the region

Visions and dreams are not proof of god.

Yes there is evidence of some stories and a vague timeline but that is not exclusive to the bible. Many of the people after 1000 bc have outside descriptions of them.

Real events and real people to do prove god

Most of the biblical myths predate Moses from other regions and faiths.

And yet here we sit with the account of Genesis embedded in the symbols of the Chinese language.

 

[aris2chat]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

yrs they still haven't proved it writing. Even if it is some form, it is not chinese. it might be like picture drawings in caves

 

[ding]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

yrs they still have proved it writing. Even if it is some form, it is not chinese. it might be like picture drawings in caves

No. It's still in use today.

 

[aris2chat]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

>>A 2003 report in Antiquity interpreted them "not as writing itself, but as features of a lengthy period of sign-use which led eventually to a fully-fledged system of writing."[2] The earliest known body of writing in the oracle bone script dates much later to the reign of the late Shang dynasty king Wu Ding (c. 1200 BC)<<

 

[yiostheoy]

And yet here we sit with the account of Genesis embedded in the symbols of the Chinese language.

That's not hard to justify.

Moses learned a Genesis story from his Egyptian scribes.

Egyptian scribes picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Hittites also picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Greek Sea Peoples kicked Hittites out of Anatolia into China.

Q.E.D.

 

[ding]

View attachment 102620

part of a panteon after 2000 bc

not the same

The proof is in the symbols.

The timing was more than 4500 years ago.

>>The earliest references to Shangdi are found in oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in the 2nd millennium BC, <<

Archaeologists Rewrite History

>>A 2003 report in Antiquity interpreted them "not as writing itself, but as features of a lengthy period of sign-use which led eventually to a fully-fledged system of writing."[2] The earliest known body of writing in the oracle bone script dates much later to the reign of the late Shang dynasty king Wu Ding (c. 1200 BC)<<

No. It established that their origin was much earlier than you attributed.

 

[shimon]

Both of you might want to google the similarities between Jewish Passover and Chinese New Year to get closer to your answer... Israelites ended up in many diverse places even " the kingdom"

 

[ding]

Both of you might want to google the similarities between Jewish Passover and Chinese New Year to get closer to your answer... Israelites ended up in many diverse places even " the kingdom"

Thanks.

History of Chinese New Year - Chinese Customs

"The origins of the Chinese New Year festival are thousands of years old and are steeped in legends but it is unclear when the beginning of the year was celebrated before the Qin Dynasty.

A small scale Spring Festival is said to have been celebrated as early as at the time of the legendary sage-emperors Yao and Shun.
Historically, various Chinese dynasties celebrated the Spring Festival in different ways, and at times influenced each other and added certain customs and traditions to it.

The Spring Festival is supposed to have been initiated in the Shang Dynasty (Chinese: 商朝; Pinyin: Shāng cháo) and the custom of ancestor worship was included in the festivities...."

Emperor Yao - Wikipedia

Emperor Shun - Wikipedia

 

[ding]

Ancestor Worship in Taoism - Chinese Customs

"History
Shang Dynasty (1600-1046 BC). The people at this time worshiped many deities, including natural forces and elements such as rain, clouds, rivers, mountains, the sun, the moon, and the earth. Their greatest deity, Shang Di (上帝, pinyin: Shàngdì), remains an important god in the Chinese pantheon..."

 

[ding]

So it appears that the great migration in the Bible was correct and that the ones who went west and the ones who went east shared a common faith.

 

[ding]

And yet here we sit with the account of Genesis embedded in the symbols of the Chinese language.

That's not hard to justify.

Moses learned a Genesis story from his Egyptian scribes.

Egyptian scribes picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Hittites also picked it up from Mesopotamia.

Greek Sea Peoples kicked Hittites out of Anatolia into China.

Q.E.D.

This seems highly unlikely now.

 

[shimon]

You should look at Japan next on the Michael Sanders board under lost tribes after being removed from Israel they followed their God to the ends of the earth... Japan' s flag holds the clue ....Baal the rising son... Many stayed along the way and became peoples of the east... Similar stories in the west north and south...

 

[shimon]

Sun....not Son...

 

[ding]

You should look at Japan next on the Michael Sanders board under lost tribes after being removed from Israel they followed their God to the ends of the earth... Japan' s flag holds the clue ....Baal the rising son... Many stayed along the way and became peoples of the east... Similar stories in the west north and south...

I never understood the importance of Genesis 11:1-9 until right now. Thank you. I only had a piece of it. Thank You!

 

[ding]

Jesus fed more than 5,000. Only the men were counted. There were woman and children fed also. There could have easily been 10,000 to 15,000 people there. They were fed with the lunch of a child (whose number was not included in the count).

There is no demon that doesn't recognize Jesus, as the Christ. They know Him, His power and His authority. He is going to win this battle.

What is your point there are 5000 men in a Roman Legion of course there could have been women and others as well...The size of a Roman legion of men is not in dispute nor is the followers fed ( taught) by Jesus after all he was pretty disdainfull of women in some of his passages so he wouldn't have counted the women in the number most likely...The interesting thing is that if the New Testament is just a Roman passion play then JC was not the first JC but Julius Ceasar was ... I told you I barely scratched the surface ... If Julius Ceasar marched with his troops or Legions and he came in the clouds of ( dust) created by them in their wake and he eventually was Pierced( by those that killed him on the ides of March) Then the stories attributed to Jesus in the New Testament are either at the worst plagerized and copied over and reworked by the lying scribes or at best at least have some basis but the amount of truth in them is so minuscule that one must take it with a grain of salt which if I remember correctly is deadly to a demon especially one of the kingly variety like Jesus who lest we forget holds the key to the bottomless pit in his posession

He wasn't disdainful of women. I don't believe you understood those passages.

 

[ding]

Shimon, He's the Messiah that will save the Jews from being wiped off the earth. Israel is in for some really bad times. Those scribes couldn't predict what the weather was going to be like tomorrow. But, the God of Abraham can tell us the end from the beginning. And has done so.
According to the author of the Old Testament, the Word was with God and was God. And he was right.
And, God is right. From prophesying the gathering of the Jews back to Israel, to Israel becoming a nation in a day, to being surrounded by your enemies. Your ancestors spurned Him in their day just as you do today. In fact, they actually cursed you by asking that the consequences of their treatment of Jesus be visited on their children. And yet were it not for His return, the enemies that surround you today would annihilate you in the future. You had better hope He comes back and touches down on the Mt. of Olives. Without Him, you're in big trouble. We all are.

Oh and BTW, congratulations, you will be rebuilding the Temple.

A page in a book can't be a messiah. Ink doesn't make a man and give him breath and life... The fanciful stories of Jesus of him leaping between mountains and rising from death etc etc are only myths that have grown over time and become embellished ...It is a whale of a tale a lie of lies only guliable little fishes would buy such stories... You were warned in Isaiah 44 about being your own witnesses( Christians) about a certain carpenter who would stretch out his rule... You were told not to create an image of a man that you would bow down to and that you might place even on the wall of your home above your bed and you were told that you would clutch this lie in your right hand but it would bring you nothing but ashes and death... Nothing your image did confirmed he/ it was a messiah therefore my people rejected your fanciful stories just like we rejected many other false messiahs over time... Patience is a virtue and my people are indeed patient and long lived as we have outlasted them all and as we all know he who laughs last laughs the best and we will have the last laugh you can count on that because our patience will be rewarded in the end while you and others like you who did not heed the warnings will only be clutching empty promises and false hopes . Yes we will build our temple, Yes we will thrive and so will our children... Yes we will do all that we are meant to do but we will not need your false image and hope to do so... In the future when the technology becomes advanced enough we might even build a computer and place all who cannot let go of their idol Jesus in a program so they can be with him always you may never even know the difference after all my people can be compassionate and feeling for your suffering as well as no one likes anyone who gives them false hopes and promises...

That didn't sound very compassionate.