Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[JoeB131]

Time to arm the teachers ?

Boy, what a well thought out statement....

Wow, did you give the suggestion even two nanoseconds of thought before you puked all your standard libtard bullshit all over the damned place?

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

Actually, the idea of arming teachers is so ass-poundingly retarded, it woudl be sad unless you realize the gun nuts are serious about it.

Frankly, I find it hilarious the same wingnuts who don't want Public School teachers teaching Sex education, or telling kids about evolution, or discussing topics like Global Warming with them, because those teachers are just too damned liberal.

But they'll trust that teacher to have a loaded gun in the classroom.

Because it's not like anything ever gets stolen out of a classroom.

 

[MikeK]

The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel? Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately? Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?

Nonsense.

Except for those security guards who are forrmer police officers and have some advanced level of firearms training in their history, those who have received the standard eight hour training regimen at some "certified" local range are capable of properly handling their weapon and putting enough hits on a paper target to be approved for a carry permit. And that's it.

As for the potential of average teachers to become effective gunfighters, while there might be a few the vast majority have no such potential. And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Also, I'd like you to provide examples of bus drivers, cruise ship personnel (except for Captains), train conductors and airline pilots who not only are armed but have received advanced firearms confrontation training. Last I heard airline pilots were not authorized to carry firearms and I've never heard of bus drivers or train conductors being legally armed. You should know that in New York City in the 1970s an average of one night-line taxi driver per week was being robbed and murdered but cab drivers' demand to be armed was turned down. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel? Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately? Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?

Nonsense.

Except for those security guards who are forrmer police officers and have some advanced level of firearms training in their history, those who have received the standard eight hour training regimen at some "certified" local range are capable of properly handling their weapon and putting enough hits on a paper target to be approved for a carry permit. And that's it.

As for the potential of average teachers to become effective gunfighters, while there might be a few the vast majority have no such potential. And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Also, I'd like you to provide examples of bus drivers, cruise ship personnel (except for Captains), train conductors and airline pilots who not only are armed but have received advanced firearms confrontation training. Last I heard airline pilots were not authorized to carry firearms and I've never heard of bus drivers or train conductors being legally armed. You should know that in New York City in the 1970s an average of one night-line taxi driver per week was being robbed and murdered but cab drivers' demand to be armed was turned down. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

You heard wrong.

the Transportation Security Administration developed the Federal Flight Deck Officer program as an additional layer of security.

Under this program, eligible flight crewmembers are authorized by the Transportation Security Administration Office of Law Enforcement/Federal Air Marshal Service to use firearms to defend against an act of criminal violence or air piracy attempting to gain control of an aircraft. A flight crew member may be a pilot, flight engineer or navigator assigned to the flight.

Federal Flight Deck Officers | Transportation Security Administration

 

[MikeK]

Time to arm the teachers ?

Boy, what a well thought out statement....

Wow, did you give the suggestion even two nanoseconds of thought before you puked all your standard libtard bullshit all over the damned place?

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

Actually, the idea of arming teachers is so ass-poundingly retarded, it woudl be sad unless you realize the gun nuts are serious about it.

Frankly, I find it hilarious the same wingnuts who don't want Public School teachers teaching Sex education, or telling kids about evolution, or discussing topics like Global Warming with them, because those teachers are just too damned liberal.

But they'll trust that teacher to have a loaded gun in the classroom.

Because it's not like anything ever gets stolen out of a classroom.

When I lived in Brooklyn my next-door neighbor was a kindergarten teacher, the sweetest, most naively warm and pleasant person I've ever known. To imagine her being willing to even hold a gun is out of the question.

Also, I attended Catholic schools and I just can't imagine the Franciscan brothers or Carmelite nuns being "strapped." (What a thought.) They might attack with blackboard pointers and cat-o'-nine-tails, but that's it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wow, did you give the suggestion even two nanoseconds of thought before you puked all your standard libtard bullshit all over the damned place?

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

Actually, the idea of arming teachers is so ass-poundingly retarded, it woudl be sad unless you realize the gun nuts are serious about it.

Frankly, I find it hilarious the same wingnuts who don't want Public School teachers teaching Sex education, or telling kids about evolution, or discussing topics like Global Warming with them, because those teachers are just too damned liberal.

But they'll trust that teacher to have a loaded gun in the classroom.

Because it's not like anything ever gets stolen out of a classroom.

When I lived in Brooklyn my next-door neighbor was a kindergarten teacher, the sweetest, most naively warm and pleasant person I've ever known. To imagine her being willing to even hold a gun is out of the question.

Also, I attended Catholic schools and I just can't imagine the Franciscan brothers or Carmelite nuns being "strapped." (What a thought.) They might attack with blackboard pointers and cat-o'-nine-tails, but that's it.

I have no idea what the hell Catholic schools have to do with this. It's PUBLIC schools that are having the problems, by and large.

Furthermore, perhaps your neighbor in Brooklyn wouldn't volunteer to be one of the armed teachers, then. Or perhaps you don't know your ass from your elbow, and she'd be more than happy to defend her students. Either way, your fucking personal anecdotes are an even bigger waste of everyone's time than your posts usually are, so let me cut to the chase: no one gives a fuck about your personal life, or the people you personally know. Whatever policy we put into place regarding the hundreds of thousands of public schools in this nation, it will NOT be based on YOUR piddly-assed little personal life and the handful of dipshit, piddly-assed acquaintances which have peopled it.

Speak to the issue, and stop confusing this with your group therapy session, because I'm not being paid to listen, so I don't care if you exist.

 

[Foxfyre]

The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel? Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately? Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?

Nonsense.

Except for those security guards who are forrmer police officers and have some advanced level of firearms training in their history, those who have received the standard eight hour training regimen at some "certified" local range are capable of properly handling their weapon and putting enough hits on a paper target to be approved for a carry permit. And that's it.

As for the potential of average teachers to become effective gunfighters, while there might be a few the vast majority have no such potential. And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Also, I'd like you to provide examples of bus drivers, cruise ship personnel (except for Captains), train conductors and airline pilots who not only are armed but have received advanced firearms confrontation training. Last I heard airline pilots were not authorized to carry firearms and I've never heard of bus drivers or train conductors being legally armed. You should know that in New York City in the 1970s an average of one night-line taxi driver per week was being robbed and murdered but cab drivers' demand to be armed was turned down. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't mention cabs, actually, though I know some do carry, probably without permission to do so. Knowing people who work in all industries I did name, while not publicized, I can assure you that they have means to deal with an armed passenger or terrorist intent on committing mayhem. After 9/11, Congress passed a widely publicized bill allowing airline pilots to have firearms in the cockpit. I have one shirttail relative who is a port director for Carnival Cruise Lines and two relatives who work as armed bank guards, neither who have ever been police officers or in the military. The next time you are on a Greyhound bus, you might look for the locked cabinet above the windshield just to the right of the driver.

And you can argue all you want to that teachers will not have the training and expertise to deal with an armed terrorist or suicidal assassin, but I will still say that an armed teacher with rudimentary instruction in using it is in a better position to defend himself/herself and the children in his/her charge than is the teacher with no firearm at his/her disposal. The fact that the teacher might not have opportunity or be successful is no reason to deny the ability.

 

[idb]

Don't forget the importance of schools being sited and designed so that they have clear interconnecting fields of fire into the streets outside...for the safety of the kids.

 

[squeeze berry]

[...]

It is simply beyond reason to assume that a properly trained school teacher, somebody we put in charge of our children for the greater part of their day, would be less responsible or capable of handling that duty in case of emergency.

The keywords there are "properly trained."

To deal with this kind of threat will take a lot more training than is typically available to new gun owners, which is basically how to safely handle the weapon and to put three out of six hits on a paper target at twenty feet. The fact is it will take a trained gunfighter to properly and adequately confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin at close range. And this requires many, many hours of intensive, exhausively repetitive training and, most importantly, it calls for a certain mentality which is not typical of the vast majority of teachers.

The mindset needed to produce an effective response to a well-armed, suicidal, mass killer calls for the kind of intensive conditioning which enables reflexive responses, thus bypassing the potential for freezing under threat and eliminating the need to think about what to do. This reflexive capability not only requires extensive training but frequent practice (stimulus) sessions.

So the idea of arming school teachers is essentially naive and uninformed.

how many police officers have been in gunfights?

btw

some school teachers are handy with a gun

 

[Dr Grump]

One of the many problems that I see with this, is too many people assume that shooting someone is easy. It is 100% the exact opposite, especially in high stress situations. Police actually hit the suspects they were shooting at about 15-20% of the time. These are men and women that are trained heavily in the use of guns. There is no way that teachers are going to be nearly as trained or as ready as police are.

Military kill people with friendly fire, police do, vice-presidents shoot people on accident while hunting. Teachers? Nah they could never make a mistake.

So what's the worst that could happen? A bunch of dead children and teachers? Oh, look! WE ALREADY HAVE THAT!

A fucking mental disorder. That's all it could possibly be. Half the fucking country has gone insane. I have no other explanation.

We have thousands of armed security guards on duty in banks, courthouses, and other venues. Most of these are ordinary citizens that have been trained for their jobs. Personnel on commercial airliners, busses, trains, and ocean going vessels have access to firearms and are instructed to use them in case of emergency. The emergency would of course be to defend the passengers and/or crew against something or somebody intent on harming them.

How many of us can name even one incident where any of these people used those weapons inappropriately or in a way that endangered the passengers more than they already were?

It is simply beyond reason to assume that a properly trained school teacher, somebody we put in charge of our children for the greater part of their day, would be less responsible or capable of handling that duty in case of emergency.

Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....

 

[Oddball]

Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....

Psychos mowing down unarmed people is the problem.

The "gun culture" is just another brain dead liberoidal straw man.

 

[koshergrl]

Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.

You must be so proud.

The ardent pro-lifers, as usual, are attempting to protect innocent children from butchers, and as usual, progressives are claiming children don't rate protection, and are working as hard as they can to make sure the slaughter continues.

Schoolrooms, abortion clinics, it's all good, eh?.

 

[Dr Grump]

Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....

Psychos mowing down unarmed people is the problem.

The "gun culture" is just another brain dead liberoidal straw man.

Only in America.....

Talking gun violence: facts for a debate America has to have

THE air in the United States is thick with calls to avoid ''politicising'' the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for ''don't talk about reforming gun control laws''.

Let's be clear: That is a form of politicisation.


Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years happened in the US.


Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of ''deaths due to assault'' in the US and other developed countries. The US is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, ''The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the US is than other OECD countries … and (2) the degree of change - and recently, decline - there has been in the US.''

 

[Dr Grump]

Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.

You must be so proud.

The ardent pro-lifers, as usual, are attempting to protect innocent children from butchers, and as usual, progressives are claiming children don't rate protection, and are working as hard as they can to make sure the slaughter continues.

Schoolrooms, abortion clinics, it's all good, eh?.

And when the teacher has a bad day at the office? Or some thug starts pushing him or her around during class?

 

[Oddball]

Trianing people how to use fireamrs is not the problem. Your gun culture is....

Psychos mowing down unarmed people is the problem.

The "gun culture" is just another brain dead liberoidal straw man.

Only in America.....

Talking gun violence: facts for a debate America has to have

THE air in the United States is thick with calls to avoid ''politicising'' the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for ''don't talk about reforming gun control laws''.

Let's be clear: That is a form of politicisation.


Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years happened in the US.


Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of ''deaths due to assault'' in the US and other developed countries. The US is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, ''The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the US is than other OECD countries … and (2) the degree of change - and recently, decline - there has been in the US.''

Oh, so since half of them happened in America, that completely wipes the rest of them -all in nations with far stricter gun laws than exist in America BTW- off the boards?

And what of the genocide in Rwanda, that was perpetrated without a single shot being fired?....Was that the fault of Rwanda's "machete culture"?

 

[9thIDdoc]

The same training as is given security guards, bus drivers, airline pilots and key flight attendant staff, train conductors, cruise ship personnel? Again, how many incidents can you name in which any of these have used their weapons inappropriately? Do you honestly believe that teachers, given the same degree of training, would somehow be far more dangerous having a weapon at their disposal than would any of these thousands and thousands of other folks?

Nonsense.

Except for those security guards who are forrmer police officers and have some advanced level of firearms training in their history, those who have received the standard eight hour training regimen at some "certified" local range are capable of properly handling their weapon and putting enough hits on a paper target to be approved for a carry permit. And that's it.

As for the potential of average teachers to become effective gunfighters, while there might be a few the vast majority have no such potential. And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Also, I'd like you to provide examples of bus drivers, cruise ship personnel (except for Captains), train conductors and airline pilots who not only are armed but have received advanced firearms confrontation training. Last I heard airline pilots were not authorized to carry firearms and I've never heard of bus drivers or train conductors being legally armed. You should know that in New York City in the 1970s an average of one night-line taxi driver per week was being robbed and murdered but cab drivers' demand to be armed was turned down. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

And if you believe less than the kind of exhaustive training I've previously mentioned is adequate to prepare an ordinary person to confront a well-armed, suicidal assassin you simply don't know what you're talking about.

The fact is that it is not at all uncommon for untrained unarmed ordinary people to confront these sumbags who are also usually untrained and a very long way from being "effective gunfights". Gun trumps hand and almost always they die. They certainly deserve an even break and just having a firearm would go a long way tword evening the scales even if they only receive enough training to be able to safely carry without shooting themselves or anyone they don't intend to. Eight hours is plenty of time to teach that. At indoor rangers great marksmanship is not required. You don't have to be Annie Oakly to shove your muzzle into a child killer's ear and pull the trigger. And dead kids tend to provide an amazing amount of inspiration to do just that. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Dr Grump]

Psychos mowing down unarmed people is the problem.

The "gun culture" is just another brain dead liberoidal straw man.

Only in America.....

Talking gun violence: facts for a debate America has to have

THE air in the United States is thick with calls to avoid ''politicising'' the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for ''don't talk about reforming gun control laws''.

Let's be clear: That is a form of politicisation.


Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years happened in the US.


Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of ''deaths due to assault'' in the US and other developed countries. The US is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, ''The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the US is than other OECD countries … and (2) the degree of change - and recently, decline - there has been in the US.''

Oh, so since half of them happened in America, that completely wipes the rest of them -all in nations with far stricter gun laws than exist in America BTW- off the boards?

And what of the genocide in Rwanda, that was perpetrated without a single shot being fired?....Was that the fault of Rwanda's "machete culture"?

No, they are not off the boards. Just saying of the 20 worst in western countries, you own 11 of them. There are about 20 other countries that fit the "western world" description - finland has two of them, Norway and Australia one each. Read the article. It's neither pro or anti gun. In fact, some of the points are just matter of fact.

Oh, so you want to compare Rwanda to the US? You really want to do that? Shall I compare a Polar Bear to a ladybug while I'm at it? Like the US and Rwanda those two critters have so much in common...<sarcasm>

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nice to see the ardent pro lifers being so pro life as usual. Hoping that some teacher had a gun so they could act in the pro life way and shoot someone.

You must be so proud.

The ardent pro-lifers, as usual, are attempting to protect innocent children from butchers, and as usual, progressives are claiming children don't rate protection, and are working as hard as they can to make sure the slaughter continues.

Schoolrooms, abortion clinics, it's all good, eh?.

And when the teacher has a bad day at the office? Or some thug starts pushing him or her around during class?

Grump do you think cops don't have a bad day? yet how many cops use their firearm because they were pissed?

 

[squeeze berry]

Time to arm the teachers ?

Boy, what a well thought out statement....

Wow, did you give the suggestion even two nanoseconds of thought before you puked all your standard libtard bullshit all over the damned place?

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

Actually, the idea of arming teachers is so ass-poundingly retarded, it woudl be sad unless you realize the gun nuts are serious about it.

Frankly, I find it hilarious the same wingnuts who don't want Public School teachers teaching Sex education, or telling kids about evolution, or discussing topics like Global Warming with them, because those teachers are just too damned liberal.

But they'll trust that teacher to have a loaded gun in the classroom.

Because it's not like anything ever gets stolen out of a classroom.

so you think a teacher would be leaving a loaded gun sitting out in the open?


You are the one that is loaded

 

[Oddball]

Only in America.....

Talking gun violence: facts for a debate America has to have

THE air in the United States is thick with calls to avoid ''politicising'' the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for ''don't talk about reforming gun control laws''.

Let's be clear: That is a form of politicisation.


Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the past 50 years happened in the US.


Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, in July made a graph of ''deaths due to assault'' in the US and other developed countries. The US is a clear outlier, with rates well above other countries. As Healy writes, ''The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the US is than other OECD countries &#8230; and (2) the degree of change - and recently, decline - there has been in the US.''

Oh, so since half of them happened in America, that completely wipes the rest of them -all in nations with far stricter gun laws than exist in America BTW- off the boards?

And what of the genocide in Rwanda, that was perpetrated without a single shot being fired?....Was that the fault of Rwanda's "machete culture"?

No, they are not off the boards. Just saying of the 20 worst in western countries, you own 11 of them. There are about 20 other countries that fit the "western world" description - finland has two of them, Norway and Australia one each. Read the article. It's neither pro or anti gun. In fact, some of the points are just matter of fact.

Oh, so you want to compare Rwanda to the US? You really want to do that? Shall I compare a Polar Bear to a ladybug while I'm at it? Like the US and Rwanda those two critters have so much in common...<sarcasm>

You're the one who invoked the silly "gun culture" straw man argument....That you could provide some article from elsewhere invoking the same silly meme, doesn't suddenly make a straw man argument valid.

It's no more valid than blaming Rwanda's "machete culture" for the slaughter that went on there.

In any event, the one thing that is present in and common to all of those massacres is the completely unarmed and helpless victim.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I've seen LOTS of "what ifs" in this thread to discredit the idea but not much sound reality based reasoning.