Are atheists materialists?

[ding]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

 

[Taz]

Absolutely, they don't even believe in the ethereal.

Some do, like me, but we don't believe in the cartoon version of organized religions of today.

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

 

[Taz]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

Don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger.

I think creationism was the only thing I disagreed with in the spiritual column.

So you post something that you don't believe in yourself. You should have said that in the OP.

 

[ding]

Absolutely, they don't even believe in the ethereal.

Some do, like me, but we don't believe in the cartoon version of organized religions of today.

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

Your call. Your loss. It is your mistake to make.

 

[ding]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

Don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger.

I think creationism was the only thing I disagreed with in the spiritual column.

So you post something that you don't believe in yourself. You should have said that in the OP.

Come on man. Read what I wrote.

 

[Taz]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

 

[ding]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

I don't disagree that some atheists reject materialism. I disagree that rejecting materialism is logical for an atheist. It doesn't make any sense. Why? Because they believe in something that is intelligent and incorporeal that did not originate from a material being. Call it a life force. That isn't atheism.

 

[Taz]

Absolutely, they don't even believe in the ethereal.

Some do, like me, but we don't believe in the cartoon version of organized religions of today.

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

Your call. Your loss. It is your mistake to make.

Seriously though, an invisible superbeing in another dimension wants us to follow a book? Sounds cartoonish.

 

[ding]

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In Idealism, mind and consciousness are first-order realities to which matter is subject and secondary. In philosophical materialism the converse is true. Here mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, for example) without which they cannot exist. According to this doctrine the material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa.

Materialist theories are mainly divided into three groups. Naive materialism identifies the material world with specific elements (e.g. the scheme of the four elements—fire, air, water and earth—devised by the pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles). Metaphysical materialism examines separated parts of the world in a static, isolated environment. Dialectical materialism adapts the Hegelian dialectic for materialism, examining parts of the world in relation to each other within a dynamic environment.

Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical. Philosophical physicalism has evolved from materialism with the discoveries of the physical sciences to incorporate more sophisticated notions of physicality than mere ordinary matter, such as: spacetime, physical energies and forces, dark matter, and so on. Thus the term "physicalism" is preferred over "materialism" by some, while others use the terms as if they are synonymous.

Philosophies contradictory to materialism or physicalism include idealism, pluralism, dualism, and other forms of monism.

Materialism - Wikipedia

The following is a table taken from an atheist website Main differences between materialism and spiritualism and compares materialism to spiritualism.

View attachment 234724

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

Can you list the things you disagreed with from the Materialism column?

 

[rightwinger]

Nothing wrong in believing we are animals.
We eat, shit and fuk

Then we die

 

[ding]

Absolutely, they don't even believe in the ethereal.

Some do, like me, but we don't believe in the cartoon version of organized religions of today.

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

Your call. Your loss. It is your mistake to make.

Seriously though, an invisible superbeing in another dimension wants us to follow a book? Sounds cartoonish.

Does it sound any more cartoonish than your beliefs of reincarnation. Maybe it only sounds cartoonish because you don't look at it the way I do. I believe that God is more like mind than anything else. Does that sound cartoonish to you?

 

[Taz]

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

I don't disagree that some atheists reject materialism. I disagree that rejecting materialism is logical for an atheist. It doesn't make any sense. Why? Because they believe in something that is intelligent and incorporeal that did not originate from a material being. Call it a life force. That isn't atheism.

Atheists simply don't believe in gods. They don't necessarily reject everything spiritual. Some probably do, but that's not a prerequisite for being an atheist.

 

[ding]

Nothing wrong in believing we are animals.
We eat, shit and fuk

Then we die

That is what I would consider to be the logical atheist worldview. It makes perfect sense to me that you would believe that. That was the point I was trying to make. Other people who claim to be atheists see it differently. So much so that I don't think they can be considered to be atheists.

 

[ding]

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

I don't disagree that some atheists reject materialism. I disagree that rejecting materialism is logical for an atheist. It doesn't make any sense. Why? Because they believe in something that is intelligent and incorporeal that did not originate from a material being. Call it a life force. That isn't atheism.

Atheists simply don't believe in gods. They don't necessarily reject everything spiritual. Some probably do, but that's not a prerequisite for being an atheist.

And the consequence of that is exactly what right winger just wrote.

Nothing wrong in believing we are animals.
We eat, shit and fuk

Then we die

 

[Taz]

As opposed to say, the Pope? Joel Osteen? You?

PS no link to your "atheist" site.

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

Can you list the things you disagreed with from the Materialism column?

1 through 7.
10, 11 and 13.

 

[ding]

They don't necessarily reject everything spiritual.

They have no basis for believing that their so-called spiritualism is anything more than electrochemical responses in the brain.

 

[ding]

Yes, there is a link embedded in the post right after the word website.

As opposed to people who believe in a higher power. People are not all bad or all good. You can’t focus on one thing and expect to see the full picture. That would be like me pointing to one thing about you and saying that’s Taz.

Ok, saw the link. But I don't see myself in this, and it's from fucking FRANCE!!!! Ils sont tous fou les Français.

They are trying to say, for example, that anyone who is spiritual believes in Creationism, which is bullshit. I'm spiritual, I just see no proof for the theories put forth by today's religions. I think it's probably something else.

So you believe in Creationism?

I didn’t know it was from France, so you scored a point for that! But it seemed to me to be a fair comparison. Perfect? No. But probably pretty close.

There are probably SOME atheists who will agree with that list, but probably not very many, because it's a dumb list to tag on all atheists. Or anyone.

Can you list the things you disagreed with from the Materialism column?

1 through 7.
10, 11 and 13.

So you accept 8,9 and 12. Interesting.

 

[Taz]

Some do, like me, but we don't believe in the cartoon version of organized religions of today.

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

Your call. Your loss. It is your mistake to make.

Seriously though, an invisible superbeing in another dimension wants us to follow a book? Sounds cartoonish.

Does it sound any more cartoonish than your beliefs of reincarnation. Maybe it only sounds cartoonish because you don't look at it the way I do. I believe that God is more like mind than anything else. Does that sound cartoonish to you?

I think that reincarnation seems possible. And likely, given what we know.

Believing in an invisible being that wants us to follow a book seems very unlikely. And it makes no sense.

 

[ding]

Maybe it’s because you don’t understand the world religions. The basic beliefs that matter to our everyday lives in all world religions are more similar than different. Maybe it is your biased - both in reading their wisdoms and in judging the behaviors of their practitioners - that is keeping you from seeing it.

I just see no proof that leads to an invisible Big Guy who cares if we follow a book or not. It actually sounds completely ludicrous to me.

Your call. Your loss. It is your mistake to make.

Seriously though, an invisible superbeing in another dimension wants us to follow a book? Sounds cartoonish.

Does it sound any more cartoonish than your beliefs of reincarnation. Maybe it only sounds cartoonish because you don't look at it the way I do. I believe that God is more like mind than anything else. Does that sound cartoonish to you?

I think that reincarnation seems possible. And likely, given what we know.

Believing in an invisible being that wants us to follow a book seems very unlikely. And it makes no sense.

Again you are looking at God all wrong. No wonder it doesn't make sense to you.

Let's try this. List what you reject from the Spiritual column.

 

[ding]

I got to run but I'll be back later.