Are globalized corporations unamerican?

[Steelplate]

Global Corporations obviously aren't American in their scope. But it would be absurd to equate being international to being anti-American, at least in my view. And I don't see why a firm's executive board which may or may not be made up of citizens of the United States ought to be beholden to the interests of the US Government, or that their goal should be to serve "American interests"(whatever that means) first. That idea sounds rather slavish in it's conception.

Ok.... but if they lay claim to be an American Company and benefit from the perks...16% effective tax rate... lots of loopholes, subsidies and the general knobgobbling that Washington gives them.... why shouldn't they be accountable?

In other words... they can't have it both ways.

Finally... so what you are basically saying is that, by and large... the vast majority of Americans are screwed. Great.... Sorry... I don't accept that. If that's the game they want to play... then our people have to fight back and put them in their place. They are not "the people" in the "we the people" Nor are the they people in the phrase "of, by and for the people".

They are businessmen... Corporations, while employing people... are not people. they are entities... powerful entities that need to be held in check.. so that situations like this never happen again.

 

[uscitizen]

The battles at Brooklyn, Harlem, Ft Washington, and White Plains were under GW's command. He started with almost 30K and ended up with 3K. You can read it for yourself.

I accept you word on it. I had read that it was more than any battle in the revoloutionary war. It was around 15,000 for the whiskey rebellion that marched on Pittsburg.
.

 

[Lars]

Global Corporations obviously aren't American in their scope. But it would be absurd to equate being international to being anti-American, at least in my view. And I don't see why a firm's executive board which may or may not be made up of citizens of the United States ought to be beholden to the interests of the US Government, or that their goal should be to serve "American interests"(whatever that means) first. That idea sounds rather slavish in it's conception.

Ok.... but if they lay claim to be an American Company and benefit from the perks...16% effective tax rate... lots of loopholes, subsidies and the general knobgobbling that Washington gives them.... why shouldn't they be accountable?

In other words... they can't have it both ways.

Finally... so what you are basically saying is that, by and large... the vast majority of Americans are screwed..

Well, I support an effective corporate tax rate of zero. But I see your point, that if they receive tax monies, they should effectively be controlled by the taxpayers through their representatives. But my problem is not with say a company "moving overseas", or a company cutting back, that's their prerogative if they feel their finances are threatened. I disagree with the subsidies. Companies should sink or swim on their own merit and not crowd up the market at the expense of taxpayers. I just disagree with the notion of Government at any level making decisions at the base level for firms.

No, I am not saying screw the majority of Americans.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The battles at Brooklyn, Harlem, Ft Washington, and White Plains were under GW's command. He started with almost 30K and ended up with 3K. You can read it for yourself.

I accept you word on it. I had read that it was more than any battle in the revoloutionary war. It was around 15,000 for the whiskey rebellion that marched on Pittsburg.
.

I am not surprised that he took so many to the west. His second-in-command was Alexander Hamilton, and that fellow as a big government guy and strong nationalist.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You are your Extremist Righty Fascists will not be permitted to rewrite American history, such as you are failing at above. The Constitution protects political free speech so that good Americans can out wrong headed Americans like you.

You practice the lie making tactics of Beck and the smearing tactics of an Alinsky.

The Founders would turn you folks into the alley.

You have nothing but name calling and labeling. We're not going to play your game.
Insult away. We know the truth.

 

[thereisnospoon]

WITH corporations America IS collapsing. BECAUSE of too strong a Business community America IS withering.

actually, liberal, we are in a great recession because American business is very weak and losing ground against international competition.

The solution is supply side economics, i.e., get the liberal government off their backs so they can supply goods and services to make the economy boom and put people back to work!!

Your dementia, if put into actionable practices, would turn Americans into economic slaves.

Better American business limps along until it realizes it has to serve the consumer before the stock holder.

Business limps along.....And you people have the gall to bitch about companies that in your words "won't hire"....With people like you wishing for them to not do well, why in the hell should a business want to expand?

 

[uscitizen]

actually, liberal, we are in a great recession because American business is very weak and losing ground against international competition.

The solution is supply side economics, i.e., get the liberal government off their backs so they can supply goods and services to make the economy boom and put people back to work!!

Your dementia, if put into actionable practices, would turn Americans into economic slaves.

Better American business limps along until it realizes it has to serve the consumer before the stock holder.

Business limps along.....And you people have the gall to bitch about companies that in your words "won't hire"....With people like you wishing for them to not do well, why in the hell should a business want to expand?

ahh yes why indeed would a business expand right now. considering we are in a consumer driven economy and consumers are out of work, deep in debt, etc right now?

Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade.
We are too far in debt, too many jobs offshored, etc.

So we need to encourage more globalization, offshoring, etc that helped in a major way to create this situation?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your dementia, if put into actionable practices, would turn Americans into economic slaves.

Better American business limps along until it realizes it has to serve the consumer before the stock holder.

Business limps along.....And you people have the gall to bitch about companies that in your words "won't hire"....With people like you wishing for them to not do well, why in the hell should a business want to expand?

ahh yes why indeed would a business expand right now. considering we are in a consumer driven economy and consumers are out of work, deep in debt, etc right now?

Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade.
We are too far in debt, too many jobs offshored, etc.

So we need to encourage more globalization, offshoring, etc that helped in a major way to create this situation?

The corporations and their greed, along with the consumers, are responsible for our situation. Thus, both must contribute to get us out of it. Trust the great majority on this, the wealthy will not walk away without paying their fair share.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Founders were for representative government, which we have. Folks like you fought for the crown in the War of Independence.

actually Republicans then and now were/are opposed to central government!!! This is something a child could grasp. sorry

so they are anti-American?
America was founded on a representative centralized government

Not central government. Actually it was the Confederacy that objected to a distant central government meddling in their affairs. Reason. The Southern State government believed the federal government was ignoring their interests in favor of wealthier more industrialized northern states.
That aside it is CENTRAL PLANNING to which we object. Big difference.
The Obama administration is exercising central planning.

 

[uscitizen]

actually Republicans then and now were/are opposed to central government!!! This is something a child could grasp. sorry

so they are anti-American?
America was founded on a representative centralized government

Not central government. Actually it was the Confederacy that objected to a distant central government meddling in their affairs. Reason. The Southern State government believed the federal government was ignoring their interests in favor of wealthier more industrialized northern states.
That aside it is CENTRAL PLANNING to which we object. Big difference.
The Obama administration is exercising central planning.

Well whoop t shit. So did the Bush admin while the republicans controlled both houses.
Partisan whining nothing more.
I complain about it now and I did then too.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Either you are deliberately lying or you are truly ignorant of our history.

The Founders created a nationalist, centralized government to correct the fundamental errors of the Articles of Confederation Congress.

BHO's policies have returned control to the auto industries and the banks.

That is the truth, and that is why the TPE is starting to founder, even in states like Texas or Utah.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Your dementia, if put into actionable practices, would turn Americans into economic slaves.

Better American business limps along until it realizes it has to serve the consumer before the stock holder.

Business limps along.....And you people have the gall to bitch about companies that in your words "won't hire"....With people like you wishing for them to not do well, why in the hell should a business want to expand?

ahh yes why indeed would a business expand right now. considering we are in a consumer driven economy and consumers are out of work, deep in debt, etc right now?

Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade.
We are too far in debt, too many jobs offshored, etc.

So we need to encourage more globalization, offshoring, etc that helped in a major way to create this situation?

It is the policies of the current administration which are responsible for your complaints.
"Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade."
Does that mean notwithstanding government interference that the economy will eventually fix itself? Sure looks like that it what you're stating to me.

"We are too far in debt"
Again, Obama admin policies...

Offshoring accounts for about 1% of the total US labor force.
Here is a link to a US Bureau of Labor Statistics table which lists the type of jobs susceptible to "offshoring".
Many site links try to put a number on off shoring. Because by law ,employers are not required to report where employees are located, it is difficult to accurately account for off shored jobs and even more difficult to define what off shored jobs actually are.
Generally, most off shored jobs are low to mid level customer service and data entry type jobs.
IN reading some commentary on sites that watchdog IT jobs, it appears they consider data entry positions to be part of IT.
IT is probably the hardest hit of all skill type jobs regarding off shoring.
One thing is clear. There is much confusion deliberate or inadvertent between off shoring and out sourcing.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/12/art4full.pdf

 

[uscitizen]

Business limps along.....And you people have the gall to bitch about companies that in your words "won't hire"....With people like you wishing for them to not do well, why in the hell should a business want to expand?

ahh yes why indeed would a business expand right now. considering we are in a consumer driven economy and consumers are out of work, deep in debt, etc right now?

Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade.
We are too far in debt, too many jobs offshored, etc.

So we need to encourage more globalization, offshoring, etc that helped in a major way to create this situation?

It is the policies of the current administration which are responsible for your complaints.
"Jobs will come very slowly no matter what we do for at least a decade."
Does that mean notwithstanding government interference that the economy will eventually fix itself? Sure looks like that it what you're stating to me.

"We are too far in debt"
Again, Obama admin policies...

Offshoring accounts for about 1% of the total US labor force.
Here is a link to a US Bureau of Labor Statistics table which lists the type of jobs susceptible to "offshoring".
Many site links try to put a number on off shoring. Because by law ,employers are not required to report where employees are located, it is difficult to accurately account for off shored jobs and even more difficult to define what off shored jobs actually are.
Generally, most off shored jobs are low to mid level customer service and data entry type jobs.
IN reading some commentary on sites that watchdog IT jobs, it appears they consider data entry positions to be part of IT.
IT is probably the hardest hit of all skill type jobs regarding off shoring.
One thing is clear. There is much confusion deliberate or inadvertent between off shoring and out sourcing.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/12/art4full.pdf

let me ask you to go to the a dept store and look for things made in America.

then come back and tell me your bullcrap figures again.

At best we will slowly decline in our standard of living for the next decade or so.

Yes we will continue to have some jobs gneerated and they will pay less and less as time goes by and our wages become more inline with world labor costs.

Are companies and govt people who encourage this being pro American?

 

[thereisnospoon]

so they are anti-American?
America was founded on a representative centralized government

Not central government. Actually it was the Confederacy that objected to a distant central government meddling in their affairs. Reason. The Southern State government believed the federal government was ignoring their interests in favor of wealthier more industrialized northern states.
That aside it is CENTRAL PLANNING to which we object. Big difference.
The Obama administration is exercising central planning.

Well whoop t shit. So did the Bush admin while the republicans controlled both houses.
Partisan whining nothing more.
I complain about it now and I did then too.

"Bush did it"......Holy fucking shit....
If you don't have anything else, shut it.
Central planning........Obama pushes through partisan nationalization of the health insurance. That's the number one example of central planning. Another would be the hyperspending of this administration.
Obama unilaterally places a ban on a private business ( oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico and other areas of US seacoast) That is central planning.
Maxine Watters( DEMOCRAT Los Angeles) in a House sub committee on gas prices threatened to "socializing the oil business"....Central planning.
Don't believe me....Watch this....[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BdKkEKTrs]YouTube - ‪Maxine Waters Threatens to Socialize Big Oil‬‏[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

So what? You are engaged in a Hasty Generalization that demonizes no only Water but Righty Extremist Fascist sillies like M.D. and bigrebnc threatening war against their political enemies.

Grow up and try again.

 

[uscitizen]

Not central government. Actually it was the Confederacy that objected to a distant central government meddling in their affairs. Reason. The Southern State government believed the federal government was ignoring their interests in favor of wealthier more industrialized northern states.
That aside it is CENTRAL PLANNING to which we object. Big difference.
The Obama administration is exercising central planning.

Well whoop t shit. So did the Bush admin while the republicans controlled both houses.
Partisan whining nothing more.
I complain about it now and I did then too.

"Bush did it"......Holy fucking shit....
If you don't have anything else, shut it.
Central planning........Obama pushes through partisan nationalization of the health insurance. That's the number one example of central planning. Another would be the hyperspending of this administration.
Obama unilaterally places a ban on a private business ( oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico and other areas of US seacoast) That is central planning.
Maxine Watters( DEMOCRAT Los Angeles) in a House sub committee on gas prices threatened to "socializing the oil business"....Central planning.
Don't believe me....Watch this....[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BdKkEKTrs]YouTube - ‪Maxine Waters Threatens to Socialize Big Oil‬‏[/ame]

Thanks for helping me make my point.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well whoop t shit. So did the Bush admin while the republicans controlled both houses.
Partisan whining nothing more.
I complain about it now and I did then too.

"Bush did it"......Holy fucking shit....
If you don't have anything else, shut it.
Central planning........Obama pushes through partisan nationalization of the health insurance. That's the number one example of central planning. Another would be the hyperspending of this administration.
Obama unilaterally places a ban on a private business ( oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico and other areas of US seacoast) That is central planning.
Maxine Watters( DEMOCRAT Los Angeles) in a House sub committee on gas prices threatened to "socializing the oil business"....Central planning.
Don't believe me....Watch this....[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BdKkEKTrs]YouTube - ‪Maxine Waters Threatens to Socialize Big Oil‬‏[/ame]

Thanks for helping me make my point.

What point might that be? All you do is tell us how you disagree.

To date the only point you've been able to make is with a pencil sharpener.
Your little invective there indicates you have nothing to add, no rebuttal.

 

[Sactowndog]

He considers the company stateless and will put jobs whereever is in the best interest of the stockholders.

imagine if liberals passed a law that American companies could not be primarily concerned with profits for stockholders?? Exactly 100% of American capital would go abroad and America would die 1000 deaths.

A liberal will simply lack the IQ to understand basic economics. That is the definition of liberalism. When they talk they talk pure uneducated nonsense.

True but conservatives are equally wrong in assuming if we just lower taxes and get out of the way jobs will come. They certainly won't via major corporations and if you lower capital gains taxes you will make it worse not better.

Neither party has cracked the code on what needs to be done as witnessed by the decline in middle class jobs over the past decade. Voters know this and that is why they have been shifting from on party to the other. They are looking for somebody with a solution and both sides can only offer tired worn out orthodxy that doesn't work in today's world.

 

[shintao]

I mean where do their loyalties lie?
Do they care if America goes down the tubes as long as their profits increase?
Same with those who play the global market.

Does America owe them any breaks or support?

Your questions are hypothetical in nature.

 

[Steelplate]

Well, I support an effective corporate tax rate of zero. But I see your point, that if they receive tax monies, they should effectively be controlled by the taxpayers through their representatives. But my problem is not with say a company "moving overseas", or a company cutting back, that's their prerogative if they feel their finances are threatened. I disagree with the subsidies. Companies should sink or swim on their own merit and not crowd up the market at the expense of taxpayers. I just disagree with the notion of Government at any level making decisions at the base level for firms.

No, I am not saying screw the majority of Americans.

What if their true finances didn't dictate that at all and it's just a profiteering motive? The way I, and a lot of other people see it, these corporations are enjoying record profits on the backs of American Citizens. Furthermore, they are taking money made off of these profits(which we ourselves contribute greatly to because of our consumer based economy) and investing them overseas, where that money is lost forever.

Take China alone... here we are cutting and scrimping, people looking for meaningful jobs and they are enjoying the luxury of expanding their infrastructure at a breakneck pace and gaining more and more global power.

That doesn't even account for the Trade Deficit, which is some $500B/year. We charge them a 2.5% tariff on goods brought into the US. They Charge us 25% for our stuff going in to their country. That's more money leaving our country and never coming back.

It's like the whole system is squarely stacked against us and has been for some time...and now we are just STARTING to feel the effects of it.