Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

[Steven_R]

Before the Dems go giving each other handjobs and reacharounds, let's not forget there was a census in 2010 and the redistricting took place between the2010 election and the 2012 election.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

Where's the lie? Is it, perhaps, in your insinuation that if someone says it doesn't go far enough they don't think it should be scrapped? I oppose ACA because it doesn't go far enough to address what I consider to be core problem with health care - price inflation. I barely addresses at all. It simply uses it as an excuse to bring it all under corporatist control. And I firmly support repeal.

You seem to be trying to spin the idea that it's all matter of degree, that opposition or approval of the law is based on some kind of linear assessment of 'how far' it goes. But that's a gross over-simplification. People oppose it for wide variety of reasons, for what it does that they don't like, for what it doesn't do that they wish it did. The fact that not everyone opposing it would offer up the same solution as an alternative has no bearing on the value of the law. People don't like it, for good reasons.

I truly did not mean to spin it that way, but the responses from folks here usually push well intentioned and conversational threads off track...

Therw are legitimate and credible arguments about parts of the PPACA, but I would never consider throwing out the baby with the bathwater a reasonable or rational argument.

It's like Medicare Part D. The gift to Big Pharma is repulsive in the extreme, but would I argue scrap the law/program? Nope,,,,Im too rational a being for that

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Before the Dems go giving each other handjobs and reacharounds, let's not forget there was a census in 2010 and the redistricting took place between the2010 election and the 2012 election.

Whatever it is you suffer from, I am sure it is covered as a preexisting condition.

 

[whitehall]

It's no lie. Everybody hates some part of the monstrosity. The freaking law is 3,000 pages long and the more you learn about it the bigger chance you have to hate it.

 

[dblack]

I truly did not mean to spin it that way...

Alright. Then I'd contend that the raw data reporting that 52% disapprove of ACA is valid, and in no way a lie. That they disapprove for different reasons is irrelevant.

Therw are legitimate and credible arguments about parts of the PPACA, but I would never consider throwing out the baby with the bathwater a reasonable or rational argument.

Repealing the law isn't an argument. There are many arguments offered for why it should be repealed, some of them reasonable and rational, some of them less so. I don't see nearly enough good in the law (hardly any) to offset the bad.

It's like Medicare Part D. The gift to Big Pharma is repulsive in the extreme, but would I argue scrap the law/program? Nope,,,,Im too rational a being for that

Well, that's not argument either, just a claim that you're 'too rational'. Ok. If you say so.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's no lie. Everybody hates some part of the monstrosity. The freaking law is 3,000 pages long and the more you learn about it the bigger chance you have to hate it.

In the late 1700s everybody hated some part of the proposed US Constitution

Thank you.

 

[whitehall]

Here's the deal, in an all-encompassing law which is expected to involve every aspect of life as we know it in the United States the federal government is strangely silent about it. You get some generalities thrown out in speeches from time to time but it's as if an asteroid is about to enter the earth's atmosphere and people are trying to protect themselves rather than embracing the disaster. The point is that if it wasn't for the republican congressional majority nobody would be talking about all the exemptions for big business and politicians and the impact on small businesses. Unions are even coming out against the law because an incredible amount of unionized labor will be cut back to part time or laid off. People will lose the health coverage that unions promised because it is more cost effective for businesses to put workers on part time or pay the fine rather than pay for health coverage. Obama has no authority to avoid implimenting sections of a law that he signed but the monstrosity is so big that it is out of control.

 

[orogenicman]

people lie. I am sure there are some govt leeches that want it, but are scared of the judgements and the fact that it was brought about by a liberal. I dont doubt a lot of the right establishment that support it, but they are part of the establishment... so.... lol

What, exactly, would government supported healthcare brought about by a conservative look like? Yeah, I know. The answer is scary.

Billy Tauzin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the help of former Democratic turncoats? Medicare part D by law preventing gov from getting bulk discounts

By the design of the program, the federal government is not permitted to negotiate prices of drugs with the drug companies, as federal agencies do in other programs. The Department of Veterans Affairs, which is allowed to negotiate drug prices and establish a formulary, has been estimated to pay between 40%[26] and 58%[27] less for drugs, on average, than Medicare Part D. For example, the VA pays as little as $782.44 for a year's supply of Lipitor (atorvastatin) 20*mg, while the Medicare pays between $1120 and $1340 on Part D plans ... Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Medicare boss Thomas Scully, who threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he reported how much the bill would actually cost, was negotiating for a new job as a pharmaceutical lobbyist as the bill was working through Congress.[29][30] A total of 14 congressional aides quit their jobs to work for the drug and medical lobbies immediately after the bill's passage

Medicare Part D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't get me wrong, it works but at what cost? free market my ass

That sounds about right.

 

[Flopper]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

 

[Flopper]

It's no lie. Everybody hates some part of the monstrosity. The freaking law is 3,000 pages long and the more you learn about it the bigger chance you have to hate it.

It's actually 906 pages. After it was passed it was reported as being 1500 pages. It then grew to 2500 pages, now 3000. I'm expecting it will grow at least another thousand pages without any changes to the law.

Is 'Obamacare' really that long? - Leader-Telegram: Tom Giffey

 

[Steven_R]

Is that 906 pages counting the various regulations or just the law itself?

 

[dblack]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

That's actually one of the best reasons for putting the brakes on it. It should have never been voted into law until we understood it and a real consensus was formed. That never happened.

 

[orogenicman]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

The costs have already changed. While they have not gone down, the rate of increase has substantially decreased, and likely will continue to go down as more people apply and competition increases.

 

[Flopper]

Is that 906 pages counting the various regulations or just the law itself?

The law.

 

[daveman]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I'm guessing all the employees of these companies and agencies whose hours are being cut aren't as likely to be swayed by the smoke Obama and his toadies and bootlickers are blowing up their asses:

ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs - Investors.com

Would you like to tell them it's an honor for them to lose work hours due to the badly-written law?

Your faux concern is duly noted, but like Romneycare, things will work out in spite of you hysterical nancies

Tell that to the folks whose hours have been cut. Tell them they're just being hysterical nancies, and that Dear Reader has dictated their sacrifices are good and righteous and holy.

It makes a funny sound when reality and progressivism collide. Well, it would be funny, except people get hurt. Every single time.

 

[Star]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

Informative message - thanks. (Chuck Todd and the rest of the MSM should be so informative)

"group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance"
Depends on how you define "group".


Health Insurance Coverage ☜ click link

Employer based - 49%

Individual - 5%

Medicaid - 16%

Medicare - 13%

Other Public -1%

Uninsured - 16%

​

Legend:
Highest uninsurance rate (20–27%)
High uninsurance rate (16–20%)
Moderate uninsurance rate (14–16%)
Low uninsurance rate (10–14%)
Lowest uninsurance rate (4–10%)

.

 

[Flopper]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

That's actually one of the best reasons for putting the brakes on it. It should have never been voted into law until we understood it and a real consensus was formed. That never happened.

And it never would happen because their are fundamental disagreements between the Right and Left as to what part government should play in healthcare regulation.

Much has been made about the size and complexity of the law. In reality, it's far from being the being the largest piece of legislation or the most complex. The stimulus bill was over 1100 pages. The House climate bill was over 1200 pages. Budget bills are always over 1200 pages. The Affordable Care Act is one of easiest bills to read an understand and at 906 pages is far from being the largest.

The problem is not the size or complexity. It is the fundamental disagreement between the Right and Left as to what part the federal government should play in regulating health insurance. I doubt that the two sides would have ever agreed.

 

[S.J.]

Face it, the only people who are for Obamacare are "for it" for everybody else, but not themselves. They have no problem with it as long as it's somebody ELSE who gets stuck with it.

 

[dblack]

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

That's actually one of the best reasons for putting the brakes on it. It should have never been voted into law until we understood it and a real consensus was formed. That never happened.

And it never would happen because their are fundamental disagreements between the Right and Left as to what part government should play in healthcare regulation.

Much has been made about the size and complexity of the law. In reality, it's far from being the being the largest piece of legislation or the most complex. The stimulus bill was over 1100 pages. The House climate bill was over 1200 pages. Budget bills are always over 1200 pages. The Affordable Care Act is one of easiest bills to read an understand and at 906 pages is far from being the largest.

The problem is not the size or complexity. It is the fundamental disagreement between the Right and Left as to what part the federal government should play in regulating health insurance. I doubt that the two sides would have ever agreed.

Right. And we shouldn't proceed with such a fundamental change in the midst of such a disagreement. It's asking for trouble.

 

[Flopper]

Are people lying about support for Obamacare?

September Pew Research poll is being quoted as showing 52% of public disapproves of Obamacare, but...

..it is being reported that more than a quarter of that number do not support Obamacare because it does not go far enough. If true is somebody lying?

I know of at least one usmb member who has used this poll to suggest their is not majority support for Obamacare and that the public supports scrapping it.

Where does the truth lie and why would anyone lie?

I don't think most people understand Obamcare. In a nutshell, it's federal regulation on healthcare insurance, not the delivery of healthcare services. There are parts of the law that address incentives to provide higher quality healthcare but these are minor compared to the healthcare insurance regulation.

The Left has promoted Obamcare as a game changer in American healthcare. It isn't. The Right has claimed that Obamacare will destroy the American healthcare system. It won't. The truth lies somewhere in between. No one can be denied health insurance and everyone is required to carry insurance. Working class Americans will get a subsidy to help pay for insurance. The wealthy will get no help from Uncle Sam. The actually cost of healthcare services won't change much do to Obamacare. Premiums for individual insurance policies will be down in some states and up in others. The cost of group insurance which is where 80% of Americans get their insurance will change very little if any due to Obamacare.

Obamacare Myths

That's actually one of the best reasons for putting the brakes on it. It should have never been voted into law until we understood it and a real consensus was formed. That never happened.

And it never would happen because there are fundamental disagreements between the Right and Left as to what part government should play in healthcare regulation.

Much has been made about the size and complexity of the law. In reality, it's far from being the largest piece of legislation or the most complex. The stimulus bill was over 1100 pages. The House climate bill was over 1200 pages. Budget bills are always over 1200 pages. The Affordable Care Act is one of easiest bills to read an understand and at 906 pages is far from being the largest.

The problem is not the size or complexity. It is the fundamental disagreement between the Right and Left as to what part the federal government should play in regulating health insurance. I doubt that the two sides would have ever agreed or could have reached any kind of real real consensus.