Are today's Southern Conservatives any different than Southern Conservatives from the Civil War?

[Faun]

I can feel it coming. Now they are going to claim the Civil War was because of state rights for the south.

This is the first paragraph of Mississippi's declaration of secession.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

It's as simple as you're brain-dead. The Civil war happened because the south seceded.

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war. Not to mention, the first shots of the war happened in South Carolina.

 

[bripat9643]

No there isn't. That's a liberal myth. The fact that a bunch of numskulls believe it proves nothing.

7/14/2005
Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman apologized to one of the nation's largest black civil rights groups Thursday, saying Republicans had not done enough to court blacks in the past and had exploited racial strife to court white voters, particularly in the South.


"Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

Mehlman's apology to the NAACP at the group's convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South. Beginning in the mid-1960s, Republicans encouraged disaffected Southern white voters to vote Republican by blaming pro-civil rights Democrats for racial unrest and other racial problems.

USATODAY.com - GOP We were wrong to play racial politics


Apr 23, 2010


RNC Chair Michael Steele Confesses to Race-Based Southern Strategy

In fact, Steele’s remarks could not be more explicit:

Why should an African-American vote Republican?

“You really don’t have a reason to, to be honest — we haven’t done a very good job of really giving you one. True? True,”

“…We have lost sight of the historic, integral link between the party and African-Americans,” Steele said. “This party was co-founded by blacks, among them Frederick Douglass. The Republican Party had a hand in forming the NAACP, and yet we have mistreated that relationship. People don’t walk away from parties, Their parties walk away from them.

“For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South. Well, guess what happened in 1992, folks, ‘Bubba’ went back home to the Democratic Party and voted for Bill Clinton.”



RNC Chair Michael Steele Confesses to Race-Based Southern Strategy Mediaite


n a 1970 New York Times interview, Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips was blunt in describing the strategy he perfected,


"From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats."




lol

None of that proves a thing. Try quoting someone who actually worked for the campaign, not a couple Republican politicians trying to suck up to blacks 50 years later.

DISHONEST POS, LOL

AGAIN:

"In a 1970 New York Times interview, Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips was blunt in describing the strategy he perfected,


"From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats."

So the Southern Strategy consists of encouraging black people to vote?

Your continued dishonesty, isn't shocking...

"The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are."

That indicates his plan was to encourage blacks to vote. I don't see how you can read it any other way.

 

[bripat9643]

I can feel it coming. Now they are going to claim the Civil War was because of state rights for the south.

This is the first paragraph of Mississippi's declaration of secession.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

It's as simple as you're brain-dead. The Civil war happened because the south seceded.

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war.

Yeah, that sounds just like the argument of the abusive husband: "if she hadn't tried to leave, I wouldn't have had to beat her."

FYI: Evicting trespassers from your territory is not an act of war, so that claim is clearly bogus.

What an ignominious poltroon.

 

[Faun]

I can feel it coming. Now they are going to claim the Civil War was because of state rights for the south.

This is the first paragraph of Mississippi's declaration of secession.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

It's as simple as you're brain-dead. The Civil war happened because the south seceded.

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war.

Yeah, that sounds just like the argument of the abusive husband: "if she hadn't tried to leave, I wouldn't have had to beat her."

What a ignominious poltroon.

Comparing the south seceding so slavery could endure to a wife walking out on her abusive husband??

You truly are fucking nuts.

 

[bripat9643]

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

It's as simple as you're brain-dead. The Civil war happened because the south seceded.

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war.

Yeah, that sounds just like the argument of the abusive husband: "if she hadn't tried to leave, I wouldn't have had to beat her."

What a ignominious poltroon.

Comparing the south seceding so slavery could endure to a wife walking out on her abusive husband??

You truly are fucking nuts.

The analogy couldn't be more exact. "Crazy" isn't defined as "any fact that faun disagrees with."

BTW, the last time I checked "you're fucking nuts" isn't an argument of any kind.

 

[Kondor3]

Yes. They are different. They don't own slaves any more. That's now the function of Northern Industrialists.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They've only changed political parties.

There you go again. The democrats remained democrats. The republicans have never been for slavery. That is controlling people against their will, which is big government. Big government is Democrat policy. You democrats are still the same, only your methods have changed. Blacks are still on the Democrat plantation.

I hate to break it to you, and don't get me wrong, I agree with you most of the time... but big government is a policy of both parties. Both. Not one. This is why I belong to neither.

 

[Faun]

It's as simple as you're brain-dead. The Civil war happened because the south seceded.

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war.

Yeah, that sounds just like the argument of the abusive husband: "if she hadn't tried to leave, I wouldn't have had to beat her."

What a ignominious poltroon.

Comparing the south seceding so slavery could endure to a wife walking out on her abusive husband??

You truly are fucking nuts.

The analogy couldn't be more exact. "Crazy" isn't defined as "any fact that faun disagrees with."

BTW, the last time I checked "you're fucking nuts" isn't an argument of any kind.

"you're fucking nuts" describes you perfectly. What more is needed?

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong. It happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia.

You're an imbecile, plain and simple. Had the south not seceded, there would have been no war.

Yeah, that sounds just like the argument of the abusive husband: "if she hadn't tried to leave, I wouldn't have had to beat her."

What a ignominious poltroon.

Comparing the south seceding so slavery could endure to a wife walking out on her abusive husband??

You truly are fucking nuts.

The analogy couldn't be more exact. "Crazy" isn't defined as "any fact that faun disagrees with."

BTW, the last time I checked "you're fucking nuts" isn't an argument of any kind.

"you're fucking nuts" describes you perfectly. What more is needed?

Whatever. What it doesn't do is support your disproven claims.

 

[Dad2three]

I can feel it coming. Now they are going to claim the Civil War was because of state rights for the south.

This is the first paragraph of Mississippi's declaration of secession.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

LIAR

Yeah, there's a big difference, moron. The Confederacy never invaded anyone, nor did it commit genocide.

Only the biggest dumb fucking asshole would pretend there's even a remote resemblance between the two.

Sure, the confederates DIDN'T really attack FEDERAL Ft Sumpter, lol


The Confederate States of America (C.S.A. or C.S.), commonly referred to as the Confederacy, was an unrecognized confederation of secessionist states existing from 1861–65. It was originally formed by seven slave states in the Lower South region of the United States whose regional economy was mostly dependent upon agriculture, particularly cotton, and a plantation system of production which in turn largely relied upon slave labor. Each had declared their secession from the United States following the November 1860 election of Republican Abraham Lincoln on a platform which opposed expansion of slavery. A new federal government was proclaimed in February 1861 before Lincoln took office in March, but was considered illegal by the remaining U.S. After war began in April, four states of the Upper South also declared their secession and joined the Confederacy. The Confederacy later accepted Missouri and Kentucky as members, although neither officially declared secession nor were ever controlled by Confederate forces.

The United States (the Union) government rejected secession and considered the Confederacy illegal. The American Civil War began with the April 12, 1861 Confederate attack upon Fort Sumter, a fort in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina. By 1865, after very heavy fighting, largely on Confederate territory, CSA forces all surrendered and the Confederacy vanished. No foreign state officially recognized the Confederacy as an independent country,

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

FUKKING CONSERVATIVES/CONFEDERATES WERE TRAITORS THEN AS TODAY!!!

I've already explained this argument is bogus about 2 dozen times, but you morons will repeat it over and over like a mantra. You don't care whether it's valid or not.

Just because a dishonest right winger SAYS Abe attacked, the truth is confederate traitors, like you, actually took over UNION forts and attacked Ft Sumpter, a FEDERAL Gov't property!

 

[bripat9643]

The Civil War happened because Lincoln invaded Virginia. It's as simple as that.

LIAR

Yeah, there's a big difference, moron. The Confederacy never invaded anyone, nor did it commit genocide.

Only the biggest dumb fucking asshole would pretend there's even a remote resemblance between the two.

Sure, the confederates DIDN'T really attack FEDERAL Ft Sumpter, lol


The Confederate States of America (C.S.A. or C.S.), commonly referred to as the Confederacy, was an unrecognized confederation of secessionist states existing from 1861–65. It was originally formed by seven slave states in the Lower South region of the United States whose regional economy was mostly dependent upon agriculture, particularly cotton, and a plantation system of production which in turn largely relied upon slave labor. Each had declared their secession from the United States following the November 1860 election of Republican Abraham Lincoln on a platform which opposed expansion of slavery. A new federal government was proclaimed in February 1861 before Lincoln took office in March, but was considered illegal by the remaining U.S. After war began in April, four states of the Upper South also declared their secession and joined the Confederacy. The Confederacy later accepted Missouri and Kentucky as members, although neither officially declared secession nor were ever controlled by Confederate forces.

The United States (the Union) government rejected secession and considered the Confederacy illegal. The American Civil War began with the April 12, 1861 Confederate attack upon Fort Sumter, a fort in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina. By 1865, after very heavy fighting, largely on Confederate territory, CSA forces all surrendered and the Confederacy vanished. No foreign state officially recognized the Confederacy as an independent country,

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

FUKKING CONSERVATIVES/CONFEDERATES WERE TRAITORS THEN AS TODAY!!!

I've already explained this argument is bogus about 2 dozen times, but you morons will repeat it over and over like a mantra. You don't care whether it's valid or not.

Just because a dishonest right winger SAYS Abe attacked, the truth is confederate traitors, like you, actually took over UNION forts and attacked Ft Sumpter, a FEDERAL Gov't property!

It was South Carolina Territory, moron. It doesn't matter who owned it. If China bought a piece of property in the USA, would that give it the right to station troops there?

Think before you answer and prove to everyone that you're a fool.

 

[Boss]

There are MANY aspects of the Civil War that we don't have the frame of reference for in a post-Civil War America. And I think that is worth a great deal of consideration when trying to comprehend the times and what was actually happening. We have to realize the federal government was not outlawing slavery and the South rebelled, there had been no legislation suggesting any sort of a thing. We outlawed slave trade, the slave markets, etc., that had been done years before, it wasn't happening in America in 1860. The SCOTUS had ruled in several cases and the US law of the land said slaves were property and the fundamental right to own them rests with their owner. The Southern states didn't do this on their own. This was the actions of US Presidents and Congress all the way up to Lincoln.

So from a purely Constitutional standpoint, what power does the government have to come seize your property? It's covered in the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. It was literally for this very reason the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the seceded states... they weren't protected by the Constitution anymore. It was well after the end of the war that Congress got around to drafting the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments rendering slavery unconstitutional.

Now, as much as there was any kind of "conservatives" back then, they were the business men who mostly favored states having the right to decide on slavery. Cotton was our #1 trade good.... King Cotton. Mills all along the Eastern seaboard were making tons of money on cotton thanks to Eli Whitney, and life was sweet. New York threatened to secede over the war because they simply didn't want to fight it. But the war happened, the South lost and the history books were written so as to make the war about slavery. And the South has been the scapegoat ever since.

 

[Dad2three]

There are MANY aspects of the Civil War that we don't have the frame of reference for in a post-Civil War America. And I think that is worth a great deal of consideration when trying to comprehend the times and what was actually happening. We have to realize the federal government was not outlawing slavery and the South rebelled, there had been no legislation suggesting any sort of a thing. We outlawed slave trade, the slave markets, etc., that had been done years before, it wasn't happening in America in 1860. The SCOTUS had ruled in several cases and the US law of the land said slaves were property and the fundamental right to own them rests with their owner. The Southern states didn't do this on their own. This was the actions of US Presidents and Congress all the way up to Lincoln.

So from a purely Constitutional standpoint, what power does the government have to come seize your property? It's covered in the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. It was literally for this very reason the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the seceded states... they weren't protected by the Constitution anymore. It was well after the end of the war that Congress got around to drafting the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments rendering slavery unconstitutional.

Now, as much as there was any kind of "conservatives" back then, they were the business men who mostly favored states having the right to decide on slavery. Cotton was our #1 trade good.... King Cotton. Mills all along the Eastern seaboard were making tons of money on cotton thanks to Eli Whitney, and life was sweet. New York threatened to secede over the war because they simply didn't want to fight it. But the war happened, the South lost and the history books were written so as to make the war about slavery. And the South has been the scapegoat ever since.

PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE what actions did Abe/Congress do to 'seize' property? lol


Many southern whites had considered themselves more Southern than American and would fight for their state and their region to be independent of the larger nation. That regionalism became a Southern nationalism, or the "Cause".



In the 1860 presidential election, Republicans, led by Abraham Lincoln, opposed the expansion of slavery into US territories. Lincoln won, but before his inauguration on March 4, 1861, seven slave states with cotton-based economies formed the Confederacy. The first six to secede had the highest proportions of slaves in their populations, a total of 48.8% for the six. Outgoing Democratic President James Buchanan and the incoming Republicans rejected secession as illegal. Lincoln's inaugural address declared his administration would not initiate civil war. Eight remaining slave states continued to reject calls for secession. Confederate forces seized numerous federal forts within territory claimed by the Confederacy. A peace conference failed to find a compromise, and both sides prepared for war. The Confederates assumed that European countries were so dependent on "King Cotton" that they would intervene; none did and none recognized the new Confederate States of America.

American Civil War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




Lincoln maintained a moderate stance on the emancipation of slaves, never vowing in his campaigns to abolish slavery, as it was vital to the southern economy. He even stated in his presidential inaugural address that he would not use his executive power to interfere with the institution in any state where it existed. Still, Lincoln vehemently opposed the expansion of slavery into new western territories and served as one of the most influential advocates of "free soil."

Abraham Lincoln in Causes of the Civil War

 

[Faun]

LIAR

Yeah, there's a big difference, moron. The Confederacy never invaded anyone, nor did it commit genocide.

Only the biggest dumb fucking asshole would pretend there's even a remote resemblance between the two.

Sure, the confederates DIDN'T really attack FEDERAL Ft Sumpter, lol


The Confederate States of America (C.S.A. or C.S.), commonly referred to as the Confederacy, was an unrecognized confederation of secessionist states existing from 1861–65. It was originally formed by seven slave states in the Lower South region of the United States whose regional economy was mostly dependent upon agriculture, particularly cotton, and a plantation system of production which in turn largely relied upon slave labor. Each had declared their secession from the United States following the November 1860 election of Republican Abraham Lincoln on a platform which opposed expansion of slavery. A new federal government was proclaimed in February 1861 before Lincoln took office in March, but was considered illegal by the remaining U.S. After war began in April, four states of the Upper South also declared their secession and joined the Confederacy. The Confederacy later accepted Missouri and Kentucky as members, although neither officially declared secession nor were ever controlled by Confederate forces.

The United States (the Union) government rejected secession and considered the Confederacy illegal. The American Civil War began with the April 12, 1861 Confederate attack upon Fort Sumter, a fort in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina. By 1865, after very heavy fighting, largely on Confederate territory, CSA forces all surrendered and the Confederacy vanished. No foreign state officially recognized the Confederacy as an independent country,

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

FUKKING CONSERVATIVES/CONFEDERATES WERE TRAITORS THEN AS TODAY!!!

I've already explained this argument is bogus about 2 dozen times, but you morons will repeat it over and over like a mantra. You don't care whether it's valid or not.

Just because a dishonest right winger SAYS Abe attacked, the truth is confederate traitors, like you, actually took over UNION forts and attacked Ft Sumpter, a FEDERAL Gov't property!

It was South Carolina Territory, moron. It doesn't matter who owned it. If China bought a piece of property in the USA, would that give it the right to station troops there?

Think before you answer and prove to everyone that you're a fool.

It was not South Carolina territory. They gave it to the U.S. to build a fort.

Fort Sumter

Resolved That this State do cede to the United States all the right title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory Provided That all processes civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State or any officer thereof shall and may be served and executed upon any of the land so ceded or structures to be erected upon the same and any person there being who may be implicated in law and that the said land site and structures enumerated shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this State Also resolved That the State will extinguish the claim if any valid claim there be of any individuals under the authority of this State to the land hereby ceded Also resolved That the Attorney General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm Laval and others to the site at Fort Sumter and adjacent land contiguous thereto and if he shall be of opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James I Pringle Thomas Bennett and Ker Boyce Esquires be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State to appraise the value thereof If the Attorney General should be of opinion that the said title is not legal and valid that he proceed by scire facias or other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided and that the Attorney General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session Resolution of State Legislature passed Dec 21 1836 The foregoing resolution was recorded in book C No 11 page 310 etc in the register's office of mesne conveyances at Charleston July 9 1840​

That held up construction until 1841 when Laval's claim was resolved...

Fort Sumter - National Monument

It was not until January 1841 that work was resumed on the site of Fort Sumter. Laval's claim was invalidated by the State attorney general under act of the South Carolina Legislature, December 20, 1837. But the harbor issue remained and was complicated still further by a memorial presented to the legislature by James C. Holmes, Charleston lawyer, on that same date. Not before November 22, 1841, was the Federal Government's title to 125 acres of harbor "land" recorded in the office of the Secretary of State of South Carolina.​

Like I said, you're fucking nuts. I wasn't kidding, ya know.

 

[Political Junky]

After 1964, when the Civil Rights Act passed under a Democratic administration, America’s racists switched to the Republican Party. The history of the electoral map makes this quite clear. 2016 Presidential Election Interactive Map and History of the Electoral College

After the Act passed, the electorate in the south went to the Republican party. The only exceptions to this are in 1968 when the South actually voted for George Wallace (who ran as an American Independent; a party that had very pro-segregation views) and Jimmy Carter, an evangelist from the South who unlike future Democrats, would have the backing of popular evangelists.


You can see the voting trends for yourself below.

In other words, the Democratic party indeed used to be the party of racists, but this changed after 1964. Those who attempt to tie the Democratic party to racism rely well into the past in order to claim that the Democratic party is the party of racism.

The Republican Party begins pandering to Racism

Republican Racism Tea Party Racism GOP Tactics Fact and Myth

These maps show exactly what happened, although the Right has no intention of acknowledging it. They've seen them before and remain in denial.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I'm a Liberal and I think that everyone should be treated equally and that we are pretty much responsible for our own happiness as individuals.

Okay...I could see Obama or Hillary making that same statement, word for word. Their policies and actions belie the rhetoric though.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, there's a big difference, moron. The Confederacy never invaded anyone, nor did it commit genocide.

Only the biggest dumb fucking asshole would pretend there's even a remote resemblance between the two.

Sure, the confederates DIDN'T really attack FEDERAL Ft Sumpter, lol


The Confederate States of America (C.S.A. or C.S.), commonly referred to as the Confederacy, was an unrecognized confederation of secessionist states existing from 1861–65. It was originally formed by seven slave states in the Lower South region of the United States whose regional economy was mostly dependent upon agriculture, particularly cotton, and a plantation system of production which in turn largely relied upon slave labor. Each had declared their secession from the United States following the November 1860 election of Republican Abraham Lincoln on a platform which opposed expansion of slavery. A new federal government was proclaimed in February 1861 before Lincoln took office in March, but was considered illegal by the remaining U.S. After war began in April, four states of the Upper South also declared their secession and joined the Confederacy. The Confederacy later accepted Missouri and Kentucky as members, although neither officially declared secession nor were ever controlled by Confederate forces.

The United States (the Union) government rejected secession and considered the Confederacy illegal. The American Civil War began with the April 12, 1861 Confederate attack upon Fort Sumter, a fort in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina. By 1865, after very heavy fighting, largely on Confederate territory, CSA forces all surrendered and the Confederacy vanished. No foreign state officially recognized the Confederacy as an independent country,

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

FUKKING CONSERVATIVES/CONFEDERATES WERE TRAITORS THEN AS TODAY!!!

I've already explained this argument is bogus about 2 dozen times, but you morons will repeat it over and over like a mantra. You don't care whether it's valid or not.

Just because a dishonest right winger SAYS Abe attacked, the truth is confederate traitors, like you, actually took over UNION forts and attacked Ft Sumpter, a FEDERAL Gov't property!

It was South Carolina Territory, moron. It doesn't matter who owned it. If China bought a piece of property in the USA, would that give it the right to station troops there?

Think before you answer and prove to everyone that you're a fool.

It was not South Carolina territory. They gave it to the U.S. to build a fort.

Fort Sumter

Resolved That this State do cede to the United States all the right title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory Provided That all processes civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State or any officer thereof shall and may be served and executed upon any of the land so ceded or structures to be erected upon the same and any person there being who may be implicated in law and that the said land site and structures enumerated shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this State Also resolved That the State will extinguish the claim if any valid claim there be of any individuals under the authority of this State to the land hereby ceded Also resolved That the Attorney General be instructed to investigate the claims of Wm Laval and others to the site at Fort Sumter and adjacent land contiguous thereto and if he shall be of opinion that these parties have a legal title to the said land that Generals Hamilton and Hayne and James I Pringle Thomas Bennett and Ker Boyce Esquires be appointed Commissioners on behalf of the State to appraise the value thereof If the Attorney General should be of opinion that the said title is not legal and valid that he proceed by scire facias or other proper legal proceedings to have the same avoided and that the Attorney General and the said Commissioners report to the Legislature at its next session Resolution of State Legislature passed Dec 21 1836 The foregoing resolution was recorded in book C No 11 page 310 etc in the register's office of mesne conveyances at Charleston July 9 1840​

That held up construction until 1841 when Laval's claim was resolved...

Fort Sumter - National Monument

It was not until January 1841 that work was resumed on the site of Fort Sumter. Laval's claim was invalidated by the State attorney general under act of the South Carolina Legislature, December 20, 1837. But the harbor issue remained and was complicated still further by a memorial presented to the legislature by James C. Holmes, Charleston lawyer, on that same date. Not before November 22, 1841, was the Federal Government's title to 125 acres of harbor "land" recorded in the office of the Secretary of State of South Carolina.​

Like I said, you're fucking nuts. I wasn't kidding, ya know.

I've already posted this shit, numskull. Note the following:

Provided That all processes civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State or any officer thereof shall and may be served and executed upon any of the land so ceded or structures to be erected upon the same and any person there being who may be implicated in law.​

In other words, South Carolina retained legal control over the territory. It only gave up the property rights to the land, not the territorial rights. All the laws of South Carolina were still in affect within the boundaries. I've pointed this out time and time again, but you numskulls keep bringing up the same idiocy.

Please, end the stupidity!

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are MANY aspects of the Civil War that we don't have the frame of reference for in a post-Civil War America. And I think that is worth a great deal of consideration when trying to comprehend the times and what was actually happening. We have to realize the federal government was not outlawing slavery and the South rebelled, there had been no legislation suggesting any sort of a thing. We outlawed slave trade, the slave markets, etc., that had been done years before, it wasn't happening in America in 1860. The SCOTUS had ruled in several cases and the US law of the land said slaves were property and the fundamental right to own them rests with their owner. The Southern states didn't do this on their own. This was the actions of US Presidents and Congress all the way up to Lincoln.

So from a purely Constitutional standpoint, what power does the government have to come seize your property? It's covered in the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. It was literally for this very reason the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the seceded states... they weren't protected by the Constitution anymore. It was well after the end of the war that Congress got around to drafting the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments rendering slavery unconstitutional.

Now, as much as there was any kind of "conservatives" back then, they were the business men who mostly favored states having the right to decide on slavery. Cotton was our #1 trade good.... King Cotton. Mills all along the Eastern seaboard were making tons of money on cotton thanks to Eli Whitney, and life was sweet. New York threatened to secede over the war because they simply didn't want to fight it. But the war happened, the South lost and the history books were written so as to make the war about slavery. And the South has been the scapegoat ever since.

The war was entirely about slavery because if you take slavery out of the equation it is impossible to envision a plausible scenario where 11 states would secede while unifying around the forming of a completely new nation,
the result being a war between that nation and the states remaining in the Union.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Southern conservatives in 1860 were state rights Democrats. Southern conservatives today are states rights Republicans.

 

[paperview]

...
. It was literally for this very reason the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to the seceded states... they weren't protected by the Constitution anymore. It was well after the end of the war that Congress got around to drafting the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments rendering slavery unconstitutional.

....

Er...
The 13th Amendment was passed by Congress in January of 1865. The South was still fighting.

See that signature to the right? :::::::::::: > Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln made the passage of the 13th Amendment a major plank in the 1864 election.

Also:
"In the final years of the American Civil War and the Reconstruction Era that followed, Congress repeatedly debated the rights of black former slaves freed by the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation and the 1865 Thirteenth Amendment, the latter of which had formally abolished slavery. ...

" In 1865, Congress passed what would become the Civil Rights Act of 1866, guaranteeing citizenship without regard to race, color, or previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude. The bill also guaranteed equal benefits and access to the law, a direct assault on the Black Codes passed by many post-war states. The Black Codes attempted to return ex-slaves to something like their former condition by, among other things, restricting their movement, forcing them to enter into year-long labor contracts, prohibiting them from owning firearms, and by preventing them from suing or testifying in court." - Wiki

The 14th was passed by Congress in 1866. That's not "well after."