Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

[bendog]

I think another state passed something similar to this last week so this must be a trend that is catching on. I agree with this bill that if you are a business owner and believe in and live by your faith that you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want.


Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays
Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business. As long as people behave in a lawful manner (for example, they're not creating a disturbance, or they're not intoxicated), you must serve them or sell to them if they want to buy something. It doesn't mean that you have to invite them into your home. It doesn't even mean you have to like them. As a matter of fact, if business owners only sold to the people they liked, they would soon be out of business.

No disrespect but that's not exactly true. IF a state has a specific State law banning private discrimination, there would be an opposite result. But in what was my absolutely fav Supreme Court case evidencing self-inflicted ironical unintentional parody until Sandy Baby aborted equal protection in Bush v. Gore ... there was MOOSE LODGE

Moose Lodge No. 107 v. Irvis - 407 U.S. 163 (1972) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center

In 20 years, people like katzanddogs will be just as amusingly foolish

 

[OnePercenter]

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business.

Wrong. Businesses are not public accomodations. And not all businesses need a license. You can refuse service but you can't make the reason race or gender. EXCEPT now the gays are claiming their relationships are equally protected under the law. That only exists where locales allow it to occur, it isn't Constitutionally protected.

Which business doesn't need a license?

 

[WorldWatcher]

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business.

Wrong. Businesses are not public accomodations. And not all businesses need a license. You can refuse service but you can't make the reason race or gender. EXCEPT now the gays are claiming their relationships are equally protected under the law. That only exists where locales allow it to occur, it isn't Constitutionally protected.

Actually businesses are places of pubic accommodation. For example here is the Arizona definition:

" In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Person" means an individual, corporation, partnership, unincorporated association, or other organization, and includes the owner, lessee, operator, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent, or employee of any place of public accommodation.

2. "Places of public accommodation" means all public places of entertainment, amusement or recreation, all public places where food or beverages are sold for consumption on the premises, all public places which are conducted for the lodging of transients or for the benefit, use or accommodation of those seeking health or recreation and all establishments which cater or offer their services, facilities or goods to or solicit patronage from the members of the general public. Any dwelling as defined in section 41-1491, or any private club, or any place which is in its nature distinctly private is not a place of public accommodation. "

******************************

A. No individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases, leases to others or operates a place of public accommodation.

******************************

A. Discrimination in places of public accommodation against any person because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry is contrary to the policy of this state and shall be deemed unlawful.​

41-1441 - Definitions
41-1492.02 - Prohibition of discrimination by public accommodations and commercial facilities
http://www.azleg.gov/ars/41/01442.htm


It's interesting that you left out the non-biological choice of religion which is also protected.


>>>>

 

[Cecilie1200]

The fact that we even have a law, or debate the legailty of freedom of association is pathetic in a supposedly free country. A business owner, in any state, for any reason, should be allowed to determine who they will provide services to.

But, LOLberals just love the idea of forcing people to do what they believe is right.

it is not as cut and dry as you make it sound.

You will have towns in America where blacks will either have to move, travel long distances for goods and services, or die of starvation.

Yes, we are a free people. But "people" must include all of us. If it doesn't, then we will have groups of people that are not free.

You will? Really? Where? Please cite us evidence of these bastions of universal racial hatred . . . and then explain to me why anyone would WANT to live in a town where everyone hates them, anyway.

 

[bendog]

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business.

Wrong. Businesses are not public accomodations. And not all businesses need a license. You can refuse service but you can't make the reason race or gender. EXCEPT now the gays are claiming their relationships are equally protected under the law. That only exists where locales allow it to occur, it isn't Constitutionally protected.

Actually businesses are places of pubic accommodation. For example here is the Arizona definition:

" In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Person" means an individual, corporation, partnership, unincorporated association, or other organization, and includes the owner, lessee, operator, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent, or employee of any place of public accommodation.

2. "Places of public accommodation" means all public places of entertainment, amusement or recreation, all public places where food or beverages are sold for consumption on the premises, all public places which are conducted for the lodging of transients or for the benefit, use or accommodation of those seeking health or recreation and all establishments which cater or offer their services, facilities or goods to or solicit patronage from the members of the general public. Any dwelling as defined in section 41-1491, or any private club, or any place which is in its nature distinctly private is not a place of public accommodation. "

******************************

A. No individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases, leases to others or operates a place of public accommodation.

******************************

A. Discrimination in places of public accommodation against any pers​

41-1441 - Definitions
41-1492.02 - Prohibition of discrimination by public accommodations and commercial facilities
41-1442 - Discrimination in places of public accommodation; exceptions


It's interesting that you left out the non-biological choice of religion which is also protected.


>>>>

Interesting.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Civil rights act does not cover discrimination because of BEHAVIOR... gay is not a race or a sex..

Do I agree with treating people bad?? No.. Do I think it is smart business sense to not cater to gays? Nope.. but I am for freedom, and you have the freedom to be a jerk just as you have the freedom to be tolerant...

You should not be able to force a religious person or a person who does not agree with things such as homosexual BEHAVIOR to bake a penis cake, or film gays kissing, or whatever else.. the freedom of the service provider is not lesser than the freedom of the homosexual.. it is the same freedom

Religion isn't a race or sex either. I look forward to these Arizona businesses not serving people of different religions, races, handicaps, etc. Well done, Zonies!

No you don't because you know that's just fluff talk to try to get people on the defensive

You also are scared that this would not effect a business negatively. You're not even concerned with the fact other businesses can thrive due to this. You simply want everyone to tell you how great you are or suffer Never gonna happen

I'm simply amazed that you leftists really believe there are huge swathes of businesses out there just DYING to turn away paying customers. What's it like inside your heads, where the world is a seething hotbed of enemies, and why have you never considered the reality that most people just don't give a fuck about you one way or another?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The fact that we even have a law, or debate the legailty of freedom of association is pathetic in a supposedly free country. A business owner, in any state, for any reason, should be allowed to determine who they will provide services to.

But, LOLberals just love the idea of forcing people to do what they believe is right.

You have it backwards. The voting public determines who is allowed to operate commercial business and the rules and regulations they are required to follow to operate such endeavor. This is done to protect the consumer, the customer and promote the general welfare. The voters get to decide what protections are needed. It's called democracy. The thing you are promoting is called anarchy. Anarchy is not the same as democracy.

Since when does "the public" get to vote on who operates a business? Where was I when this went into effect? And no, Chuckles, deciding that the regulations YOU think people should be forced to adhere to are wrong is not "anarchy". It's just a different set of regulations. PLEASE try to understand that it's not acceptable to make it illegal to believe differently from you.

 

[bendog]

Religion isn't a race or sex either. I look forward to these Arizona businesses not serving people of different religions, races, handicaps, etc. Well done, Zonies!

No you don't because you know that's just fluff talk to try to get people on the defensive

You also are scared that this would not effect a business negatively. You're not even concerned with the fact other businesses can thrive due to this. You simply want everyone to tell you how great you are or suffer Never gonna happen

I'm simply amazed that you leftists really believe there are huge swathes of businesses out there just DYING to turn away paying customers. What's it like inside your heads, where the world is a seething hotbed of enemies, and why have you never considered the reality that most people just don't give a fuck about you one way or another?

There's that. And in my view, the vast majority would view denying services to a person because of orientation to be very bad manners, at the least, and choose to shop elsewhere. Out them and deride them as irrational bigots.

 

[bendog]

The fact that we even have a law, or debate the legailty of freedom of association is pathetic in a supposedly free country. A business owner, in any state, for any reason, should be allowed to determine who they will provide services to.

But, LOLberals just love the idea of forcing people to do what they believe is right.

You have it backwards. The voting public determines who is allowed to operate commercial business and the rules and regulations they are required to follow to operate such endeavor. This is done to protect the consumer, the customer and promote the general welfare. The voters get to decide what protections are needed. It's called democracy. The thing you are promoting is called anarchy. Anarchy is not the same as democracy.

Since when does "the public" get to vote on who operates a business? Where was I when this went into effect? And no, Chuckles, deciding that the regulations YOU think people should be forced to adhere to are wrong is not "anarchy". It's just a different set of regulations. PLEASE try to understand that it's not acceptable to make it illegal to believe differently from you.

well, the majority can pass laws making refusal to grant accomodations a crime. In my view that's foolish, but if the maj wants it ..... that's there decision, and they can live with it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think another state passed something similar to this last week so this must be a trend that is catching on. I agree with this bill that if you are a business owner and believe in and live by your faith that you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want.


Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays
Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

This is ridiculous, how do you know someone is gay? My friend and I have taken trips together and if we get a suite with a king bed for the same price as a regular room with 2 beds, we take the suite every time. What if they think we're lesbians? This is just stupid.

The bill allows a business owner to refuse service to anyone, not just gays, and they just have to site their own personal religiously held beliefs. The proposed laws specifically says those beliefs to not have to coincide with major established religious doctrine.


>>>>

So?

 

[Katzndogz]

Of course they can. Bakeries sell much more than wedding cakes. Some really don't offer the service at all and never did. Bakeries sell pies, cakes, cookies, cupcakes pastries, they sell all kinds of baked goods and no one ever complained that gays were prohibited from buying their petit fours.

Probably because there was no gay litmus test to qualify for the purchase. That isn't the point. Making a gay wedding cake on demand isn't the same thing as screening people for sexual orientation, I don't know anyone proposing that.

A bakery could not remain in business ONLY offering wedding cakes though. There would be no problems. There isn't an injunction against bakers telling them they either accommodate gay wedding cakes or they can't make any wedding cakes at all. Only if they offer services to the general public, they cannot refuse a same sex wedding cake or same sex wedding photography or the like.

Yes, that's the problem. I fail to see how you can sell to the public without selling to the public.

No one has proposed screening people for sexual orientation before they sell them anything. It's personal service that they object to.

 

[bendog]

My dad made the exact same argument about blacks in his Elks Club. Today, there are blacks and no one speaks of the past.

 

[Againsheila]

My dad made the exact same argument about blacks in his Elks Club. Today, there are blacks and no one speaks of the past.

Same with Mormons. They used to think black was the sign of Cain. Blacks were not allowed in their church.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not up to the People to accommodate the discriminatory whims of a business. It's up to the business to accommodate the non-discriminatory laws of the land,

or get out of that business.

It's a special order, everyone should have the right to refuse a special order, for whatever reason. What if they are too busy and don't have enough decorators or bakers?

If you refuse an order because they don't have enough decorators or bakers that is a perfectly valid reason and not based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.



>>>>>

Have you admitted you were wrong about what this law will do yet? If not, you have no business in lecturing anybody about anything even touching on this topic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think another state passed something similar to this last week so this must be a trend that is catching on. I agree with this bill that if you are a business owner and believe in and live by your faith that you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want.


Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays
Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business. As long as people behave in a lawful manner (for example, they're not creating a disturbance, or they're not intoxicated), you must serve them or sell to them if they want to buy something. It doesn't mean that you have to invite them into your home. It doesn't even mean you have to like them. As a matter of fact, if business owners only sold to the people they liked, they would soon be out of business.

Because the Constitution clearly says that anyone that owns a business is a slave that has no rights.

Wait, it doesn't say that, so that makes you wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If Jones doesn't veto this, Arizona, the number 2 working class state in the US will become a blue state. Another Republican duct tape fail.

It will?

Funny, under current law in Arizona it is perfectly legal for a business to discriminate against gays, yet you think people will suddenly be outraged because a bunch of ignorant bigots are lying about a new law that simply protects people from ignorant bigots.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You would be wrong then. In your private life, you can choose to associate with whomever you please. Businesses however, are public accommodations which are licensed to operate by the state. You don't get to choose who you will and won't serve in your business.

Wrong. Businesses are not public accomodations. And not all businesses need a license. You can refuse service but you can't make the reason race or gender. EXCEPT now the gays are claiming their relationships are equally protected under the law. That only exists where locales allow it to occur, it isn't Constitutionally protected.

Which business doesn't need a license?

Most of them actually.

 

[OnePercenter]

It's a special order, everyone should have the right to refuse a special order, for whatever reason. What if they are too busy and don't have enough decorators or bakers?

If you refuse an order because they don't have enough decorators or bakers that is a perfectly valid reason and not based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.



>>>>>

Have you admitted you were wrong about what this law will do yet? If not, you have no business in lecturing anybody about anything even touching on this topic.

So what. It's called hate. This and all the other Republican duct tape fails will cement Republican failure in 2014 and 2016.

 

[bendog]

If you refuse an order because they don't have enough decorators or bakers that is a perfectly valid reason and not based on race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc.



>>>>>

Have you admitted you were wrong about what this law will do yet? If not, you have no business in lecturing anybody about anything even touching on this topic.

So what. It's called hate. This and all the other Republican duct tape fails will cement Republican failure in 2014 and 2016.

I think they take the senate in 14, but there are a lot more goper sen seats up in 16 than dems, and the dems run a sane candidate against another crazy goper senate .... There will be blood.

 

[Clementine]

I think another state passed something similar to this last week so this must be a trend that is catching on. I agree with this bill that if you are a business owner and believe in and live by your faith that you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want.


Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays
Arizona Senate: Business owners can cite religion to refuse service to gays

My big question is why would any gay person want to give anyone their business if they don't want it? Would you want your wedding catered by people who disapprove of your life? I wouldn't. I am sure there are many fine caterers and other businesses who gladly accept gay customers and I would say take your business where it's appreciated and forget the rest.