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Says you, an Internet nutcase.Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.As the white truck approaches the roadblock, there is a spike strip across the road but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank.
more...
i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
and there is no spike strips
so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
couldnt find on the video huh
that is because there was not one
it would have been completely stupid
for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
Says you, an Internet nutcase.Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
and there is no spike strips
so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
couldnt find on the video huh
that is because there was not one
it would have been completely stupid
for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
I think the police know better than you.Says you, an Internet nutcase.Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
couldnt find on the video huh
that is because there was not one
it would have been completely stupid
for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
--LOL
a stock photo
by the way you think that spike placement is appropriate
you are a fucktard if you think so
btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
of a hunting jacket is
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
why would they be shooting them with
oxycontin
face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
I think the police know better than you.Says you, an Internet nutcase.Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.couldnt find on the video huh
that is because there was not one
it would have been completely stupid
for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
--LOL
a stock photo
by the way you think that spike placement is appropriate
you are a fucktard if you think so
btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
of a hunting jacket is
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
why would they be shooting them with
oxycontin
face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
Your delusions worsen.
I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
I like how you think procedures in Wisconsin matter in this case.which is not what you claim happened
- After deploying the system, personnel at the scene shall immediately seek protection. All bystanders shall be removed from the immediate area. Uninvolved vehicles, in so far as practical, shall be moved to a position beyond the setup area to minimize the possibility of collision with the suspect vehicle.
lakemillspolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/SPIKE.doc
I think the police know better than you.Says you, an Internet nutcase.Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
--LOL
a stock photo
by the way you think that spike placement is appropriate
you are a fucktard if you think so
btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
of a hunting jacket is
if you think that is an appropriate placement you are
in fact an idiot without question
DEAPRTMENT PROCEDURES BY NAME
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
why would they be shooting them with
oxycontin
face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
Your delusions worsen.
I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
I used your linked article to make my point, which was that when the article is read in full it tells a different one than you are projecting. The proof is available to anyone who cares. All the have to do is read the artilce from start to finish.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
That is what Festus Slow Draw" Finicum said. All three branches of the United States government say otherwise. It is your word and the echo of Festus's word against everyone who counts.Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
And that is exactly what you ideological idiots want. Sell the land to the highest bidder. Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Then see what beef costs us all, if it is not all exported. And the small ranchers will no longer exist. You are truly one stupid fruitloop.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
Look, here's the problem..... Do you know what Feudalism is?
Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land. The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land. We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
View attachment 62618
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government! It's not supposed to be that way. We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
It's ridiculous.
Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses? No, not so much. But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
This problem likely won't go away.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
at 7:54 you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
why would they be shooting them with
oxycontin
face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
Your delusions worsen.
I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.Your delusions worsen.So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
why would they be shooting them with
oxycontin
face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
first off it was not a plane it was a drone
which is it
It's not the wrong date.did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance
Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.you cant see the spike because it is not there
it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be
equally odd the several cops following him
also "missed" the spike strip
The video proves you're deranged.the video proves they are either lying about the spike
or
lying that the video was unedited
So you claim. You weren't there.LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”You fail. It's not cheaper.
Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.
Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter. You are dictating to these people, how they live. Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system. Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone. What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land? Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993. What happened? The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle. So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it". Now listen you self centered dirty old man.... if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you..... Would you be sitting here defending them? As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that. You'd be bouncing off the roof. Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able to operate a profitable ranch without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them? No you can not.
Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this? No you can not.
Which specific program are you talking about.
Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
If you doubt that, fine. Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
funny where he is reaching is not
where the mouth of that inside pocket is
you fuckers are so unobservant
