At what point is it OK to use your gun against the gubment?

[regent]

Many among the Founders thought the Bill of Rights wasn't necessary since the Constitution empowers government and does not limit citizens. Furthermore some thought having a Bill of Rights would give too many idiots the idea that government limits rights.

That's exactly right. From Federalist No. 84

“I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and, on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power.”

The federalists were (rightly) gravely concerned that the U.S. Constitution would ultimately end with a federal government with unlimited powers. To quell their fears, the Bill of Rights was created. It was what the founders were such critical rights, that they wanted "extra" protections around them. Sadly though, just as Alexander Hamilton predicted (the prick who wanted to expand the federal government in the first place) - it has been used to imply that the federal government has more powers that it actually does and that the rights of citizens are limited.

Excerpt From: Alexander Hamilton. “The Federalist Papers.” iBooks.

And all this time historians have been teaching that Hamilton was the conservative leader, and Jefferson the liberal leader. Well I have to throw out 17 more history books now, but I can't find one history book that agrees with your posts.

 

[yiostheoy]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

This is a good question.

Generally speaking if the majority votes for something then everyone else needs to go with the flow on this and heed the voice of the People.

My only exception would be gun confiscation such as Nagin ordered after Katrina.

In that case I would shoot anyone coming to my door trying to take my guns, and then I would have hunted Nagin down myself with my scoped 5.56x45 carbine.

 

[2aguy]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

This is a good question.

Generally speaking if the majority votes for something then everyone else needs to go with the flow on this and heed the voice of the People.

My only exception would be gun confiscation such as Nagin ordered after Katrina.

In that case I would shoot anyone coming to my door trying to take my guns, and then I would have hunted Nagin down myself with my scoped 5.56x45 carbine.

Yeah.....now the mods are going to get you....you can't threaten to kill politicians on this site..........

 

[yiostheoy]

Many among the Founders thought the Bill of Rights wasn't necessary since the Constitution empowers government and does not limit citizens. Furthermore some thought having a Bill of Rights would give too many idiots the idea that government limits rights.

That's exactly right. From Federalist No. 84

“I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and, on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power.”

The federalists were (rightly) gravely concerned that the U.S. Constitution would ultimately end with a federal government with unlimited powers. To quell their fears, the Bill of Rights was created. It was what the founders were such critical rights, that they wanted "extra" protections around them. Sadly though, just as Alexander Hamilton predicted (the prick who wanted to expand the federal government in the first place) - it has been used to imply that the federal government has more powers that it actually does and that the rights of citizens are limited.

Excerpt From: Alexander Hamilton. “The Federalist Papers.” iBooks.

And all this time historians have been teaching that Hamilton was the conservative leader, and Jefferson the liberal leader. Well I have to throw out 17 more history books now, but I can't find one history book that agrees with your posts.

Hamilton is the guy who got shot by Aaron Burr as I recall.

That makes Burr the "conservative" (they love guns more) and Hamilton a liberal because they are slanderous liars.

Burr killed Hamilton because Hamilton was a slanderous liar.

 

[yiostheoy]

Suddenly bringing it up right after a hard leftists goes on a crazy shooting rampage against government officials.

Can't tell if you are stupid enough to think no one sees that you are trying to justify the shooting.

I guess jumping to conclusions is your favourite form of exercise.

The question is valid.

Republicans told the American people that if they elected a Republican House and Senate, they would keep Trump in check, and to this point, they haven't done so, and they've defended his stupidity.

At what point, as they gut environmental regulations keeping the air and water fit for human consumption, regulations put in place to rein in Wall Street after the crash, and labor laws to help low paid workers get overtime, do working people say, "Enough" and take up arms against a government that is not working for the best interests of the people?

What has Trump done against the law or the Constitution? Considering he is using the courts and he hasn't declared martial law......but please...do go on with your bullshit....

His Muslim ban for one!

It isn't a muslim ban....you are just lying now. There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. His temporary travel pause and pause on immigration effected 6 countries, all with terrorism problems and all in places where the governments cannot vet people......so.....50 - 6 = 44 muslim countries where muslims can travel freely to the United States....

So again......what has Trump done that is illegal...since he has the power to halt any and all immigration through the Constitution and through laws created by congress......?

The courts have declared it unconstitutional!!!!!! Which literally makes it unconstitutional!

It is a Muslim ban. Doesn't matter how much lipstick you put on that pig .

Since there are good moosleems as well as bad moosleems I don't believe in a permanent moosleem ban. But a temporary moosleem ban is fine with me.

And if the moosleems accept Catholic baptism then I am good with them being allowed in.

We settled all this back in the 12th Century A.D. with the Crusades.

The only good moosleem is a baptized one.

 

[P@triot]

And all this time historians have been teaching that Hamilton was the conservative leader, and Jefferson the liberal leader. Well I have to throw out 17 more history books now, but I can't find one history book that agrees with your posts.

Nobody swallows the left-wing propaganda quite like regent

 

[Divine Wind]

Hamilton is the guy who got shot by Aaron Burr as I recall.

That makes Burr the "conservative" (they love guns more) and Hamilton a liberal because they are slanderous liars.

Burr killed Hamilton because Hamilton was a slanderous liar.

1) All of the Founder's understood the importance of firearms to self-defense from others and governments.

2) While Hamilton was a great man in many respects, he was definitely a big government supporter who believed in a strong Federal executive branch to "lead" the nation which would put him square in the middle of the Democratic party were he alive today.

 

[regent]

And all this time historians have been teaching that Hamilton was the conservative leader, and Jefferson the liberal leader. Well I have to throw out 17 more history books now, but I can't find one history book that agrees with your posts.

Nobody swallows the left-wing propaganda quite like regent

And all this time historians have been teaching that Hamilton was the conservative leader, and Jefferson the liberal leader. Well I have to throw out 17 more history books now, but I can't find one history book that agrees with your posts.

Nobody swallows the left-wing propaganda quite like regent

So if US history is left wing propaganda why do we allow young children to learn that propaganda? Is it safe to assume that you have never had a history class or read any history?

 

[thereisnospoon]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

You need your head examined.

 

[12icer]

The new history IS leftist propaganda. The history taught in the public school system today is a complete fabrication by liberal indoctrinators. Back to the OP it's you leftist shit who will have to attack the government to reestablish your agenda. As for the time you are already starting it, and we are just waiting to finish it. YOU are rioting against the Police, the Military and the duly elected President. NOT demonstrating and exercising your rights BUT committing felonies each time you riot.

 

[12icer]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

You need your head examined.

All liberals have to be completely stupid, or just psychotic to be liberals, HAAHAHAAHA.

 

[thereisnospoon]

As long as you're right wing and you believe that the government helping people is wrong = the right time to kill members of the government.

The republican base is anti-government to its core.

Wow. That comment is a candidate for USMB's most stupid post of the year.
First the shooter IS A LEFT WINGER. Like you ..
Next,. what is the definition of "helping people"?..\
Because if you believe that an ever expanding welfare state where there is zero enforcement of the rules, and no one who is gaming the system ever gets booted off the system,
Ya...That is WRONG....
I have a question..if you are so consumed with "helping people", why are you not writing checks? Why are you not volunteering your time and money to those you believe need help?
Why is it you lefties think that compassion always begins in someone else's bank account?
What is a "member of government"?

 

[thereisnospoon]

When they invade MY house.

So if the cops break down your door it's ok to shoot them. ?

Yes....The 4th Amendment states this.....
The right to be secure in out persons and papers from unreasonable searches and seizures.
Officials of government are barred from conducting warrantless searches. The Constitution states our homes are our sanctuaries. That we do have the right to defend our homes. The Framers specifically mentioned government when they wrote the 4th...
No police officer worth his salt would go busting into a home unannounced.

 

[thereisnospoon]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

Ah, more hard leftists coming out and condoning the shooting. How predictable...

Lefties are against gun violence . I don't condone the shooting .

Am I wrong to say that is not a pro gun talking point. ? What's the matter , suddenly you can't admit it ?

Suddenly bringing it up right after a hard leftists goes on a crazy shooting rampage against government officials.

Can't tell if you are stupid enough to think no one sees that you are trying to justify the shooting.

YOU should be justifying the shooting ! It's in line with YOUR beliefs .

Cut the crap.
Your side is going to suffer the consequences of this....
Now its lefty projection time.....Stop it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

Timmy, people do not buy guns to rise up against government. They will stand their own when a thug enters their house determined to hurt you or your loved ones. Its a Common Sense/NRA thing.

Most don't . But it is a pro gun talking point that u need one to rise against ! I'm not making that up.

Well, we don't do talking points.
That's the exclusive province of the left.
Yeah....YOU ARE making that up

 

[westwall]

Firearm ownership is an absolute right… end of story

Well regulated firearm ownership is an absolute right

"Well regulated" in the parlance of the language of the Founders means "IN GOOD WORKING ORDER" if you're going to use a phrase learn the meaning of that phrase AT THAT TIME!

"The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it."


Meaning of the phrase "well-regulated"

 

[flacaltenn]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

Well -- lets say that Cali isn't satisfied with de facto "one party rule" or their voter disenfranchising "top 2 primary" system and decides to just remove all parties from the ballot that haven't won in a district for over 20 years. THEN starts confiscating weapons. It would time to form REAL opposition militias.

 

[westwall]

When they invade MY house.

So if the cops break down your door it's ok to shoot them. ?

Yep. There are at least two Court decisions that have upheld the right of a citizen to shoot a cop who was breaking down the door to the wrong house. If you're going to make an argument may i suggest you at least study the subject a little it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

One of the conservative talking points is that we all need to own serious firepower in case we have to rise up against an abusive government. This is a GOP /NRA thing .

So I'd like to know , at what point do you get all shooty?

I'm sure the baseball shooter must have thought he had to resort to violence as a last resort . Just wondering what righties think since this is one their beliefs .

Ah, more hard leftists coming out and condoning the shooting. How predictable...

Lefties are against gun violence . I don't condone the shooting .

Am I wrong to say that is not a pro gun talking point. ? What's the matter , suddenly you can't admit it ?

Suddenly bringing it up right after a hard leftists goes on a crazy shooting rampage against government officials.

Can't tell if you are stupid enough to think no one sees that you are trying to justify the shooting.

It's funny, and unsurprising, that you miss the point.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We already know from the Cliven Bundy incident that was widely cheered by the Right that they support the armed threat of violence against the government.