Barry-Care Was Always A Ploy To Get Single-Payer

[healthmyths]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

That's exactly why liberals are now running around saying we need "single-payer", because they know the ACA is a failure. It was designed to destroy the health care system so the people would demand the government be given more power and control over health care. They label Republicans as "callous" and "heartless" for wanting to repeal the ACA, yet they want to replace it too, with single-payer. Karl Marx would be proud of today's Democrat Party.

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

 

[theHawk]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

That's exactly why liberals are now running around saying we need "single-payer", because they know the ACA is a failure. It was designed to destroy the health care system so the people would demand the government be given more power and control over health care. They label Republicans as "callous" and "heartless" for wanting to repeal the ACA, yet they want to replace it too, with single-payer. Karl Marx would be proud of today's Democrat Party.

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

No there wasn't. They had a super majority in the Senate.

ACA final vote:

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kirk (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---39
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
LeMieux (R-FL)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


The House had 1 Repub vote for it and 39 Dems against it.

So, enough with the lies, the Dems/the Hussein didn't compromise for anyone else.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

That's exactly why liberals are now running around saying we need "single-payer", because they know the ACA is a failure. It was designed to destroy the health care system so the people would demand the government be given more power and control over health care. They label Republicans as "callous" and "heartless" for wanting to repeal the ACA, yet they want to replace it too, with single-payer. Karl Marx would be proud of today's Democrat Party.

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

No there wasn't. They had a super majority in the Senate.

ACA final vote:

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kirk (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---39
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
LeMieux (R-FL)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


The House had 1 Repub vote for it and 39 Dems against it.

So, enough with the lies, the Dems/the Hussein didn't compromise for anyone else.

Again, I'm not talking about Congress, but you keep trying to prove something about Congress.

 

[theHawk]

That's exactly why liberals are now running around saying we need "single-payer", because they know the ACA is a failure. It was designed to destroy the health care system so the people would demand the government be given more power and control over health care. They label Republicans as "callous" and "heartless" for wanting to repeal the ACA, yet they want to replace it too, with single-payer. Karl Marx would be proud of today's Democrat Party.

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

No there wasn't. They had a super majority in the Senate.

ACA final vote:

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kirk (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---39
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
LeMieux (R-FL)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


The House had 1 Repub vote for it and 39 Dems against it.

So, enough with the lies, the Dems/the Hussein didn't compromise for anyone else.

Again, I'm not talking about Congress, but you keep trying to prove something about Congress.

You're free to explain who Obama had to "compromise" with in passing the ACA.

The answer of course is it was in no way compromised, the Dems rammed it through because their globalist masters told them to. Their only hesitation was knowing it was political suicide and the majority would be voted out of office because of it, and sure enough they got their asses handed to them after their suicide vote. The Dems that passed the ACA were political suicide bombers willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy America.

 

[frigidweirdo]

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

No there wasn't. They had a super majority in the Senate.

ACA final vote:

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kirk (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---39
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
LeMieux (R-FL)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)


The House had 1 Repub vote for it and 39 Dems against it.

So, enough with the lies, the Dems/the Hussein didn't compromise for anyone else.

Again, I'm not talking about Congress, but you keep trying to prove something about Congress.

You're free to explain who Obama had to "compromise" with in passing the ACA.

The answer of course is it was in no way compromised, the Dems rammed it through because their globalist masters told them to. Their only hesitation was knowing it was political suicide and the majority would be voted out of office because of it, and sure enough they got their asses handed to them after their suicide vote. The Dems that passed the ACA were political suicide bombers willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy America.

Thank you.

But you were jumping to too many conclusions and I'm kind of tired and can't be bothered right now.

 

[Flopper]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

I missed something somewhere. Single payer is touted as the worst thing ever or the best thing since sliced bread? I can look it up and end the mystery.it can't be both. And the Affordable health care program isn't fixing anything. 10 dollar aspirins, thousand dollar a day hospital beds? Let's actually try to make health care affordable, not create government sanctioned ponzi schemes that dosen't address or fix the absurd increases in health care costs. Why IS healthcare, and for that matter housing growing out of hand? 50 years ago, neither was an issue. Now? Something smells fishy in Denmark.

Whether single payer is the best or the worst thing ever depends on your perspective. If you work for a health insurance company, it's the worst. However, for most Americans, removing health insurance from their lives and increasing payroll taxes would be well received. The healthcare discussion should be about saving more lives, curing cancer and other terrible disease, not constantly arguing about how the bills are to be paid. We have been fighting the battle over health insurance for over 20 years. Isn't it about time we turn to more important issues?

Interesting concept, Flopper! You think that instituting a Single Payer system will help cure cancer? How? Name a country that has Single Payer that is a leader in medical research! The US has been just that for a hundred years. Our healthcare system was the envy of much of the world. We were where you went to get treatment if you lived somewhere else and had the means to get here. Ask someone who gets their medical treatment through England's State run healthcare system if they think that they receive the best care that money can buy or whether they get stuck with whatever the system decides to give them?

Of course instituting single payer will not cure cancer or other diseases. What I'm saying is constant fighting over insurance reform and that is exactly what Obamacare is, takes the attention away from other really important healthcare issues.

Actually you want find much difference in the satisfaction with the qualify of healthcare systems. According to Gallup, 50% of Americans, 53% of the British, and 48% of the Canadians are not satisfied with healthcare quality.

I don't understand how single payer will hurt medical research. We have had single payer for over 70 years and half the insured are already covered by single payer and yet we are the world leader is medical research.

There are several reasons why the United States leads the world and none of them are directly connected to how we pay for medical care. China which has the largest single payer system in the world and Britain which has oldest are number 2 and 3 in medical research. However, the major factor is not how we pay our medical bills but the amount of funding devoted to research.



Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

With all due respect, Flopper...the ACA was never about health insurance "reform"...it was always about shifting the cost of premiums to the Middle Class and the healthy to cover healthcare for the poor and people with pre existing conditions! The architects of the ACA lied to the Middle Class when they promised them that it would save the average Middle Class family $2,500 a year in premiums!

I never said Obamacare was insurance reform. I said it was insurance legislation. It regulates insurance coverage, makes insurance required, limits profit margins, eliminates some junk insurance, subsides costs based on income, etc.. There are few pages in the law that address healthcare costs and quality of care but it's mostly all about insurance and providing coverage.

There are serious problems in Obamacare which need to be fixed. And yes it can be fixed. This is exactly what republican legislation is trying to do. However, I believe the proposed fixes will make it worst not better.

Democrats underestimated the cost of insuring people with prexisting conditions and overestimated the revenue from the individual mandate. Thus it did not provide sufficient subsidies for middle class tax payers buying individual insurance. They also did not anticipate republican states rejecting enhanced Medicaid which dumped a lot of really sick people into the individual insurance market which drove costs up even further.

 

[Flopper]

ACA was always going to be a bad thing, but I think Obama wanted to try and start change and hope it would move towards single payer in the future.

I disagree with the part where you say he wanted to destroy the system. He wanted to change things. The problem was he's a politician and was willing to compromise (unlike Trump) to get his thing through, and in that it just got worse and worse.

Who did he 'compromise' with? No Repubs were onboard with the ACA, that was all Dems who voted on it without reading it, they had a supermajority government.

Well, there were more than just Democrats to get on board, weren't there?

No there wasn't. They had a super majority in the Senate.

ACA final vote:

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
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The House had 1 Repub vote for it and 39 Dems against it.

So, enough with the lies, the Dems/the Hussein didn't compromise for anyone else.

Again, I'm not talking about Congress, but you keep trying to prove something about Congress.

You're free to explain who Obama had to "compromise" with in passing the ACA.

The answer of course is it was in no way compromised, the Dems rammed it through because their globalist masters told them to. Their only hesitation was knowing it was political suicide and the majority would be voted out of office because of it, and sure enough they got their asses handed to them after their suicide vote. The Dems that passed the ACA were political suicide bombers willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy America.

Obamacare itself was a compromise. Democrats had already compromised on healthcare reform by adopting Obama/RomneyCare in the first place. Obamacare is inherently a compromise because it is health insurance legislation rather than an overhaul of the structure of our nation's healthcare system, which is what Obama campaigned on. Republican proposals were to keep the law cost/revenue neutral which meant stripping out all subsidies and increases in Medicaid which would have meant no real change at all.

Just as democrats sold Obamacare, a law that regulated insurance companies as healthcare reform, republicans today are trying to sell, some fixes of Obamacare as a repeal and replacement.

 

[healthmyths]

I missed something somewhere. Single payer is touted as the worst thing ever or the best thing since sliced bread? I can look it up and end the mystery.it can't be both. And the Affordable health care program isn't fixing anything. 10 dollar aspirins, thousand dollar a day hospital beds? Let's actually try to make health care affordable, not create government sanctioned ponzi schemes that dosen't address or fix the absurd increases in health care costs. Why IS healthcare, and for that matter housing growing out of hand? 50 years ago, neither was an issue. Now? Something smells fishy in Denmark.

Whether single payer is the best or the worst thing ever depends on your perspective. If you work for a health insurance company, it's the worst. However, for most Americans, removing health insurance from their lives and increasing payroll taxes would be well received. The healthcare discussion should be about saving more lives, curing cancer and other terrible disease, not constantly arguing about how the bills are to be paid. We have been fighting the battle over health insurance for over 20 years. Isn't it about time we turn to more important issues?

Interesting concept, Flopper! You think that instituting a Single Payer system will help cure cancer? How? Name a country that has Single Payer that is a leader in medical research! The US has been just that for a hundred years. Our healthcare system was the envy of much of the world. We were where you went to get treatment if you lived somewhere else and had the means to get here. Ask someone who gets their medical treatment through England's State run healthcare system if they think that they receive the best care that money can buy or whether they get stuck with whatever the system decides to give them?

Of course instituting single payer will not cure cancer or other diseases. What I'm saying is constant fighting over insurance reform and that is exactly what Obamacare is, takes the attention away from other really important healthcare issues.

Actually you want find much difference in the satisfaction with the qualify of healthcare systems. According to Gallup, 50% of Americans, 53% of the British, and 48% of the Canadians are not satisfied with healthcare quality.

I don't understand how single payer will hurt medical research. We have had single payer for over 70 years and half the insured are already covered by single payer and yet we are the world leader is medical research.

There are several reasons why the United States leads the world and none of them are directly connected to how we pay for medical care. China which has the largest single payer system in the world and Britain which has oldest are number 2 and 3 in medical research. However, the major factor is not how we pay our medical bills but the amount of funding devoted to research.



Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

With all due respect, Flopper...the ACA was never about health insurance "reform"...it was always about shifting the cost of premiums to the Middle Class and the healthy to cover healthcare for the poor and people with pre existing conditions! The architects of the ACA lied to the Middle Class when they promised them that it would save the average Middle Class family $2,500 a year in premiums!

I never said Obamacare was insurance reform. I said it was insurance legislation. It regulates insurance coverage, makes insurance required, limits profit margins, eliminates some junk insurance, subsides costs based on income, etc.. There are few pages in the law that address healthcare costs and quality of care but it's mostly all about insurance and providing coverage.

There are serious problems in Obamacare which need to be fixed. And yes it can be fixed. This is exactly what republican legislation is trying to do. However, I believe the proposed fixes will make it worst not better.

Democrats underestimated the cost of insuring people with prexisting conditions and overestimated the revenue from the individual mandate. Thus it did not provide sufficient subsidies for middle class tax payers buying individual insurance. They also did not anticipate republican states rejecting enhanced Medicaid which dumped a lot of really sick people into the individual insurance market which drove costs up even further.

And almost everyone including GOP don't understand this issue: preexisting conditions!
Facts about "pre-existing conditions! Just read and understand this was ANOTHER gigantic lie!

 

[MaryL]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

 

[healthmyths]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

 

[Flopper]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

 

[healthmyths]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

 

[Freewill]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

Yeah single payer might be expensive but what we are doing now is even more so. I am as conservative as they come but the reality of the situation is that we are being taken for a ride by the Insurance companies and the health care industry.

Some complain that Medicare, which is single payer, holds down what health professionals are paid, so what? I have yet to see one that isn't making a ton of money.

 

[Freewill]

They own the problems with Obamacare now. It's their power to fix them.

Not a chance, moron.......all we have to do is sit back and wait for the crowd to come after your hacks with lanterns and pitchforks....and they will.

The GOP control all three branches. now....except for the amazingly stupid, everyone knows who owns it now.

And we all know what is meant by the "amazingly stupid".

Yeah, the democrats ran the car until it blew up and then gave it as a gift to the republicans who now own it.

 

[healthmyths]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

Yeah single payer might be expensive but what we are doing now is even more so. I am as conservative as they come but the reality of the situation is that we are being taken for a ride by the Insurance companies and the health care industry.

Some complain that Medicare, which is single payer, holds down what health professionals are paid, so what? I have yet to see one that isn't making a ton of money.

I'm not saying this Medicare Trustees are:

The estimated depletion date for the Hospital Insurance Trust fund (HI) trust fund is 2029, one year later than in last year’s report. As in past years, the Trustees have determined that the fund is not adequately financed over the next 10 years. HI expenditures are projected to be lower than last year’s estimates, mostly due to lower inpatient hospital utilization assumptions and lower-than-expected spending in 2016.
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...eports/ReportsTrustFunds/Downloads/TR2017.pdf
So the Part A portion of Medicare costs will exceed income in 2029.

 

[Freewill]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

Yeah single payer might be expensive but what we are doing now is even more so. I am as conservative as they come but the reality of the situation is that we are being taken for a ride by the Insurance companies and the health care industry.

Some complain that Medicare, which is single payer, holds down what health professionals are paid, so what? I have yet to see one that isn't making a ton of money.

I'm not saying this Medicare Trustees are:

The estimated depletion date for the Hospital Insurance Trust fund (HI) trust fund is 2029, one year later than in last year’s report. As in past years, the Trustees have determined that the fund is not adequately financed over the next 10 years. HI expenditures are projected to be lower than last year’s estimates, mostly due to lower inpatient hospital utilization assumptions and lower-than-expected spending in 2016.
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...eports/ReportsTrustFunds/Downloads/TR2017.pdf
So the Part A portion of Medicare costs will exceed income in 2029.

So? What is your point? That RIGHT now they are running in a surplus?

What if we took EVERYONE from POTUS and Congress on down and put them on a 80/20 plan like Medicare. Would there be corruption in the system, certainly. Will there be corruption in the system we have today? Certainly seems that way.

The truth appears to be that the US pays the most for health care which isn't the best. Who keeps doing that? Something needs changed.

 

[Freewill]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

They pass it on because they dare not touch their bottom lines.

 

[konradv]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

That's the way the Republicans wanted it. If they'd gone with single-payer at the time, we'd already have it and wouldn't have to listen all the whining about problems we're supposedly having with ACA.

 

[Freewill]

I recall when the talk shows breached that issue in 2009, the Rats smiling and carefully parsing their words to the contrary. But that's what they wanted; the ACA was simply a means of getting there and they'd make a few bucks before it imploded. And now it has and only 4 of them voted against that amendment when it came up yesterday...the rest voted "present", a tactic the Kenyan often used on his rise to power. So let's get something straight about single-payer...it's impossible:

What would it cost if we insured everybody, all 326 million Americans?

Somewhere between $2.5 trillion and $3.5 trillion. An additional $1.35 trillion to $2.35 trillion more than the feds spend on Medicaid/Medicare now.

In 2016 the feds only brought in $3.27 trillion and spent $3.85 trillion. Where are the extra trillions supposed to come from? Taxes? To cover everyone and pay for it via taxes means the average person would owe an additional $4,100 to $7,200 every year. At a minimum, a family of four would have to pay $16,400 extra. You can buy a damn good private insurance policy for that kind of money … and have enough left over for a down-payment on a nice car.

Read more at How Much Would Single Payer Health Insurance Cost? | The Daily Liberator

That's the way the Republicans wanted it. If they'd gone with single-payer at the time, we'd already have it and wouldn't have to listen all the whining about problems we're supposedly having with ACA.

You can not blame ACA on anyone other then the democrats. They could have passed single payer as much as they passed the very flawed ACA. The healthcare situation in America can only be laid at the door of the DNC. Now it takes the RNC to fix it and quite frankly I don't see that happening.