Barry-Care Was Always A Ploy To Get Single-Payer

[Rustic]

We need single payer. It's the ONLY option after Reagan deregulated the bipartisan HMO act.

Na, keep your fucking single payer to yourselves... leave the rest of the country out of it. jack weed

You like the fact that healthcare insurance companies charge an exorbitant amount for their products?

The very concept of so called "insurance" is nothing more than fraud, paying into a "pool" and expecting anything other than Waste, fraud and abuse is juvenile at very best... lol

It is when you have no control or viable competition. You can thank the Republicans for that.

Any type of collective will never work...

 

[Freewill]

Because, somehow people think that having company sponsored healthcare is some sort of freedom. It is only freedom until they get fired. Plus, as the video stated, the healthcare insurance racket is a big buyer of influence.

80 percent of the people have healthcare bought for them through their companies. They Usually have no say in what that coverage is even though they are given the allusion of choice. In the form that we are talking about they would have more choice and it would free companies the burden of administering the plans. BUT it might make healthcare cost fair which is not what the Insurance racketeers want to hear.

Agree! A single payer system would force providers to compete for your care by improving outcomes and reducing costs. But that's not the system we have now. There's no incentive for them to change the way they do business. Which is why we should abolish insurance companies, have a single payer for all health care, and render things like chargemasters moot.

And government will say no to a lot of procedures. You will get a prescription for pain pills. And don't expect that you'll be approved for any new expensive treatments or experimental treatments when you have a fatal disease. Look at Charlie Gard. Government said no. Tough shit.

Private insurance does the exact same thing today.

 

[The Derp]

Any type of collective will never work...

What do you think health insurance is? People collectively pooling their risk.

 

[Rustic]

Any type of collective will never work...

What do you think health insurance is? People collectively pooling their risk.

The very concept of risk pooling is beyond FOBAR'ed.
It literally encourages waste, fraud and abuse.
Insurance is fine if it's 100% voluntary, any type a mandatory insurance is nothing more than extortion.

 

[The Derp]

The very concept of risk pooling is beyond FOBAR'ed.
It literally encourages waste, fraud and abuse.

Yes...so then why privatize administration? Why does it matter who reimburses your doctor? Shouldn't all that matters is that they are simply reimbursed? Why do we need private companies who skim off the top for themselves and spike costs, to do that?

Insurance is fine if it's 100% voluntary, any type a mandatory insurance is nothing more than extortion.

It makes no sense to have it voluntary since the point of insurance is to protect you from financial ruin by pooling your risk with millions of other people. The only way it makes sense is if everyone participates. Otherwise, you get fragmentation which leads to high costs.

 

[Flopper]

I appreciate the information, people. But one of the cons of the single payer system (as I understand it) is it doesn't address high health care cost any more than the AHC. Why isn't reducing health care cost THE actual goal? I see all the shenanigans that Hospitals, Insurers and Lawyers are playing and why can't we focus on changing THAT?

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

I don't know where you are getting $49 from but I do know the definition of APC Average Cost is the cost at the cost center, the imaging dept and does not include hospital overhead which we all know is huge. Medicare payments indirectly use the Average Cost times the a monetary conversion factor and a regional inflation factor to arrive at the actually payment which more accurately reflect the hospitals true cost.

Private imaging center operate quite different from hospitals. They can keep machines fully loaded with patients while hospitals need lighter loading to handle emergency interruptions in schedule. Also hospitals operate on rules established by both federal and state agencies that apply to all departments but do not apply to private image centers because they do not have inpatients.

I have had CT Scans in hospitals and private image centers. Hospitals are always much more expensive but there are advantages. First, the results are available much faster to the hospital network of doctors because they are online with hospital imaging dept. Also, when the doctor sends the order for the scan to hospital imaging dept he knows exactly what he will get. CT scanners vary in contrast and resolution. A reconditioned 15 year old scanner that cost $65,000 will not delivery the same quality as a new 2.5 million scanner. Lower cost lower resolution scans may more work well as a screening method but if an anomaly is found, a second scan will usually be needed before treatment begins.

 

[healthmyths]

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

I don't know where you are getting $49 from but I do know the definition of APC Average Cost is the cost at the cost center, the imaging dept and does not include hospital overhead which we all know is huge. Medicare payments indirectly use the Average Cost times the a monetary conversion factor and a regional inflation factor to arrive at the actually payment which more accurately reflect the hospitals true cost.

Private imaging center operate quite different from hospitals. They can keep machines fully loaded with patients while hospitals need lighter loading to handle emergency interruptions in schedule. Also hospitals operate on rules established by both federal and state agencies that apply to all departments but do not apply to private image centers because they do not have inpatients.

I have had CT Scans in hospitals and private image centers. Hospitals are always much more expensive but there are advantages. First, the results are available much faster to the hospital network of doctors because they are online with hospital imaging dept. Also, when the doctor sends the order for the scan to hospital imaging dept he knows exactly what he will get. CT scanners vary in contrast and resolution. A reconditioned 15 year old scanner that cost $65,000 will not delivery the same quality as a new 2.5 million scanner. Lower cost lower resolution scans may more work well as a screening method but if an anomaly is found, a second scan will usually be needed before treatment begins.

Here is the chart AGAIN
LOOK CT SCAN Number patients 4,032 Average Charge $4,686
AVERAGE COST!: $49.00
AVERAGE PAYMENT $174.00!
NET INCOME: $125.00
MARKED UP MARGIN: 355%
Who ever mentioned a "reconditioned 15 year old scanner?"!
I put into the answer this quote:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million
Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
Now once again: I pay $600/year for service that tells me among OTHER things the below chart!
This is a hospital, with 260 beds and 103 special care beds. 1,445 employees and had
18,201 discharges that encompassed 107,253 patient days.
It took in $667,072,523 from Medicare... $151,721,512 Medicaid.. $1,743,726,103 OTHER total revenue: $2,562,520,138
Now argue with the hospital!

 

[healthmyths]

Want to reduce health care cost? Almost EVERYONE listens and does what their physician suggests, why not pay attention to what physicians say wastes more then 30% of health care costs?
View attachment 141336

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

I don't know where you are getting $49 from but I do know the definition of APC Average Cost is the cost at the cost center, the imaging dept and does not include hospital overhead which we all know is huge. Medicare payments indirectly use the Average Cost times the a monetary conversion factor and a regional inflation factor to arrive at the actually payment which more accurately reflect the hospitals true cost.

Private imaging center operate quite different from hospitals. They can keep machines fully loaded with patients while hospitals need lighter loading to handle emergency interruptions in schedule. Also hospitals operate on rules established by both federal and state agencies that apply to all departments but do not apply to private image centers because they do not have inpatients.

I have had CT Scans in hospitals and private image centers. Hospitals are always much more expensive but there are advantages. First, the results are available much faster to the hospital network of doctors because they are online with hospital imaging dept. Also, when the doctor sends the order for the scan to hospital imaging dept he knows exactly what he will get. CT scanners vary in contrast and resolution. A reconditioned 15 year old scanner that cost $65,000 will not delivery the same quality as a new 2.5 million scanner. Lower cost lower resolution scans may more work well as a screening method but if an anomaly is found, a second scan will usually be needed before treatment begins.

I also asked you if you were aware of EMTALA and all you need do is a little search and you'll see what this CEO meant when asked:

"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

 

[Flopper]

One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare, early diagnosis for cancer, heart and kidney transplants, treatments for Hepatitis, HIV, Macular Degenration, Asthma, Major improvements in Orthopedics and artificial limbs, Diabetes Medications and Monitoring, Noninvasive Diagnostics, Tomography, Ultrasound, Vaccines for Cancer Prevention, Cervical Cancer Screening, and thousands of other medical miracles. Couple this with the expansions in Medicare and Medicaid, life savings and life altering medical care is available to both the rich and poor and it is being used as never before. The number of procedures performed by healthcare providers has increased by 400% over the last 50 years.

 

[Freewill]

Any type of collective will never work...

What do you think health insurance is? People collectively pooling their risk.

The very concept of risk pooling is beyond FOBAR'ed.
It literally encourages waste, fraud and abuse.
Insurance is fine if it's 100% voluntary, any type a mandatory insurance is nothing more than extortion.

1. Do you have health care insurance?
2. If so how is it delivered?
3. Do you have the option of not having health care insurance, assuming you were not required by Obamacare?

 

[Freewill]

One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare, early diagnosis for cancer, heart and kidney transplants, treatments for Hepatitis, HIV, Macular Degenration, Asthma, Major improvements in Orthopedics and artificial limbs, Diabetes Medications and Monitoring, Noninvasive Diagnostics, Tomography, Ultrasound, Vaccines for Cancer Prevention, Cervical Cancer Screening, and thousands of other medical miracles. Couple this with the expansions in Medicare and Medicaid, life savings and life altering medical care is available to both the rich and poor and it is being used as never before. The number of procedures performed by healthcare providers has increased by 400% over the last 50 years.

Countries who do not spend what the US does on health care, do they have the same services?

 

[Freewill]

thank you. Well, that's certainly a factor. But they say: a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I can see how theoretically, how preventative medicine might be cost effective. Perhaps. But that underscores why we need to remove health care as a profit driven industry. Because it's spiraling out of control. Maybe there is better way, cost controls and regulations and constant scrutiny that keeps Health care providers and the mechanics of this issue in hand.

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

I don't know where you are getting $49 from but I do know the definition of APC Average Cost is the cost at the cost center, the imaging dept and does not include hospital overhead which we all know is huge. Medicare payments indirectly use the Average Cost times the a monetary conversion factor and a regional inflation factor to arrive at the actually payment which more accurately reflect the hospitals true cost.

Private imaging center operate quite different from hospitals. They can keep machines fully loaded with patients while hospitals need lighter loading to handle emergency interruptions in schedule. Also hospitals operate on rules established by both federal and state agencies that apply to all departments but do not apply to private image centers because they do not have inpatients.

I have had CT Scans in hospitals and private image centers. Hospitals are always much more expensive but there are advantages. First, the results are available much faster to the hospital network of doctors because they are online with hospital imaging dept. Also, when the doctor sends the order for the scan to hospital imaging dept he knows exactly what he will get. CT scanners vary in contrast and resolution. A reconditioned 15 year old scanner that cost $65,000 will not delivery the same quality as a new 2.5 million scanner. Lower cost lower resolution scans may more work well as a screening method but if an anomaly is found, a second scan will usually be needed before treatment begins.

I also asked you if you were aware of EMTALA and all you need do is a little search and you'll see what this CEO meant when asked:

"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

Is that the only way they could have paid? Could they have cut into their profit margin just a tad bit?

 

[Flopper]

One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare, early diagnosis for cancer, heart and kidney transplants, treatments for Hepatitis, HIV, Macular Degenration, Asthma, Major improvements in Orthopedics and artificial limbs, Diabetes Medications and Monitoring, Noninvasive Diagnostics, Tomography, Ultrasound, Vaccines for Cancer Prevention, Cervical Cancer Screening, and thousands of other medical miracles. Couple this with the expansions in Medicare and Medicaid, life savings and life altering medical care is available to both the rich and poor and it is being used as never before. The number of procedures performed by healthcare providers has increased by 400% over the last 50 years.

Countries who do not spend what the US does on health care, do they have the same services?

Not familiar with all countries but in Britain and France, basically yes. Services are delivered a bit differently. You might have to wait a bit longer than in the US for screenings and optional procedures but if you are really ill, services are every bit as good as in the US.

One of the big differences I noted in France was the pharmacies. They are so much more than what we have in the US in regard to healthcare. First, they are 100% about healthcare, no candies, cosmetics, or cell phones. Everyone in the pharmacy is trained in pharmacology. You don't have to wait a half hour to get prescriptions filled. You go to the counter hand them your prescription and they hand you a box of pills. Everything except specialized drugs are prepackaged. The price is the same at all pharmacies, about 25% to 90% less than what we pay in the US. Another big difference in pharmacies is they are there to consult with you concerning not just the medication but your illness often giving you information the doctor didn't. Many people will go to a pharmacist before going to the doctor.

Another difference in the systems is length of hospital stays. Beginning with the day you enter the hospital they are working toward getting you out of the hospital. I think they see the hospital as a place where you are treated and recovery begins but most of your recovery will be at home.

Most people are less concerned about healthcare issues than in the US and no one is worried about whether their treatment is covered or whether they can afford it.

 

[ptbw forever]

btw, no Republican is going to win a Democrat seat in 2018 running on more promises to repeal Obamacare.

True. However, more thsn a few will lose primaries because it hasn't been repealed yet.

If they lose to Republicans more zealous for repeal, they play into the Democrats' hands because repeal is no longer favorable political position to hold.

That is what you think.

 

[ptbw forever]

Yep....

 

[Flash]

[QU


Agree! A single payer system would force providers to compete for your care by improving outcomes and reducing costs. But that's not the system we have now. There's no incentive for them to change the way they do business. Which is why we should abolish insurance companies, have a single payer for all health care, and render things like chargemasters moot.

Single payer gives some people the entitlement to get to have their bills paid for by somebody else and that is wrong. It is thievery and will produce even more government control over our lives. Besides, this country can't afford socialized medicine with that $20 trillion debt we have and the cost of combined government already being 40% of the GDP.

I sure as hell don't want the filthy government controlling my health care.

Anybody that thinks socialized medicine will magically lower cost is dumber than a door knob. The kind of person Jonathan Gruber said was the "stupid Americans" that will believe any government lie.

We need to go back to a market based health care system and the filthy government need to stay out of it.

 

[healthmyths]

NO it's NOT spiraling out of control! What I pointed out is a MAJOR factor. Plus there NEVER was a health care crisis. It was made up by Obama.
Again... see where there are two gigantic lies that was used to pass Obamacare.
Also regarding hospital costs? Blame the GOP for the 1986 EMTALA do a little research like I have and look it up! Then you'll understand this chart a little better!
This is from a hospital and this are the outpatient services paid by Medicare in 2015
Note for example the AVERAGE Medicare payment is $295. But the cost to do ONE CT scan is $87! 341% markup!
And why? Because of EMTALA! As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

View attachment 141419

I don't think the Average Cost means what you think it means. It is determined by multiplying a cost center ratio supplied by the hospital for that department times the charge for that service. I have had a number of CT Scans and I can assure you that no healthcare provider could do CT Scans with contrast for $87. A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000.

I didn't guess or not substantiate these costs. I pay in my business about $600/year for information about 6,000 hospitals and their operating costs around the country. So I have the information and I guess you don't!

A) This hospital gross revenue was $2,562,520,138
B) Total CT Scan did in 2015 a total of 4,032 scans total claims per this hospital.
C) Average Cost $49 PER SCAN---- ACCORDING TO THE HOSPITAL that took into consideration cost of scanner, service, and salaries... Total $197,568!
D) Per this hospital: Average PAYMENT: $174.00 or for 4,032 scans: $701,568.
E) Per this hospital: Net hospital income after all expenses (i.e. costs $49/scan...) $504,000! NET INCOME or margin of 355% !
F) Now as far as your comment about COSTS:
1) Computed tomography scanners are replace CT scanners every eight to 10 years.
2) 128-slice CT scanner Average quoted vendor price: $1.1 million Average annual service cost: $140,000
12 Statistics on CT Scanner Costs
3) Per year amortization of $1.1 million is $110,000!
4) Cost per year $110,000 Scanner
But remember what you wrote: "A CT Scanner cost about 2.5 million but can run as high as $3 million. The average installation cost is $400,000 and yearly maintenance cost is over $100,000. "
DID you really mean this: Average installation cost $400,000? How many times in ten years do they install? ONCE! or $40,000 per year!
How many years does a scanner last? 10 years ! Average amortization over 10 years: $110,000!
How much annual maintenance per year $100,000! So your own figures show annual costs of $40,000+ $110,000+100,000 or $250,000 not including salaries,etc.
So who knows better? YOU or the hospital that states COST of $49 per SCAN!!!

I don't know where you are getting $49 from but I do know the definition of APC Average Cost is the cost at the cost center, the imaging dept and does not include hospital overhead which we all know is huge. Medicare payments indirectly use the Average Cost times the a monetary conversion factor and a regional inflation factor to arrive at the actually payment which more accurately reflect the hospitals true cost.

Private imaging center operate quite different from hospitals. They can keep machines fully loaded with patients while hospitals need lighter loading to handle emergency interruptions in schedule. Also hospitals operate on rules established by both federal and state agencies that apply to all departments but do not apply to private image centers because they do not have inpatients.

I have had CT Scans in hospitals and private image centers. Hospitals are always much more expensive but there are advantages. First, the results are available much faster to the hospital network of doctors because they are online with hospital imaging dept. Also, when the doctor sends the order for the scan to hospital imaging dept he knows exactly what he will get. CT scanners vary in contrast and resolution. A reconditioned 15 year old scanner that cost $65,000 will not delivery the same quality as a new 2.5 million scanner. Lower cost lower resolution scans may more work well as a screening method but if an anomaly is found, a second scan will usually be needed before treatment begins.

I also asked you if you were aware of EMTALA and all you need do is a little search and you'll see what this CEO meant when asked:

"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured?
His answer: " Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
http://classic.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

Is that the only way they could have paid? Could they have cut into their profit margin just a tad bit?

OH those DASTARDLY profit MARGINS!!!!

Let's see Profit margins for Hospitals. DO YOU KNOW? Geez I wonder...wow maybe I can do a "google search"what are the profit margins for hospitals"

Seriously, Steven Brill? Hospitals Make 'Gluttonous' Profits?

WOW I certainly hope you can take the time to see what stupid ass comment you made and all I did was search the internet!
Hospital margins by credit rating group
Source: Fitch Ratings, "2014 Median Ratios for Nonprofit Hospitals and Healthcare System" report, August 2015.

"AA" rating
Operating margin: 4.9 percent
Operating EBITDA margin: 11.5 percent
Excess margin: 7.6 percent
EBITDA margin: 14.7 percent

"A" rating
Operating margin: 3.6 percent
Operating EBITDA margin: 10.3 percent
Excess margin: 5.4 percent
EBITDA margin: 12.4 percent

"BBB" rating
Operating margin: 0.6 percent
Operating EBITDA margin: 7.7 percent
Excess margin: 2.4 percent
EBITDA margin: 9.5 percent

Below "BBB" rating
Operating margin: 0.3 percent
Operating EBITDA margin: 8.1 percent
Excess margin: 0.4 percent
EBITDA margin: 8.9 percent
200 hospital benchmarks

 

[healthmyths]

One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare, early diagnosis for cancer, heart and kidney transplants, treatments for Hepatitis, HIV, Macular Degenration, Asthma, Major improvements in Orthopedics and artificial limbs, Diabetes Medications and Monitoring, Noninvasive Diagnostics, Tomography, Ultrasound, Vaccines for Cancer Prevention, Cervical Cancer Screening, and thousands of other medical miracles. Couple this with the expansions in Medicare and Medicaid, life savings and life altering medical care is available to both the rich and poor and it is being used as never before. The number of procedures performed by healthcare providers has increased by 400% over the last 50 years.

Countries who do not spend what the US does on health care, do they have the same services?

Not familiar with all countries but in Britain and France, basically yes. Services are delivered a bit differently. You might have to wait a bit longer than in the US for screenings and optional procedures but if you are really ill, services are every bit as good as in the US.

One of the big differences I noted in France was the pharmacies. They are so much more than what we have in the US in regard to healthcare. First, they are 100% about healthcare, no candies, cosmetics, or cell phones. Everyone in the pharmacy is trained in pharmacology. You don't have to wait a half hour to get prescriptions filled. You go to the counter hand them your prescription and they hand you a box of pills. Everything except specialized drugs are prepackaged. The price is the same at all pharmacies, about 25% to 90% less than what we pay in the US. Another big difference in pharmacies is they are there to consult with you concerning not just the medication but your illness often giving you information the doctor didn't. Many people will go to a pharmacist before going to the doctor.

Another difference in the systems is length of hospital stays. Beginning with the day you enter the hospital they are working toward getting you out of the hospital. I think they see the hospital as a place where you are treated and recovery begins but most of your recovery will be at home.

Most people are less concerned about healthcare issues than in the US and no one is worried about whether their treatment is covered or whether they can afford it.

So strange why you can't do a little research to see how ridiculous arguments about healthcare in the USA!

Great Britain/France combined population is only 40% of USA.
Very hard to make a comparison when the population of USA is not only GREATER but more diverse.
French is the only official language of France, and is constitutionally required to be the language of government and administration"!
* France: In 2004, 85% of the population of Metropolitan France was white or of European origin, with 10% from North Africa, 3.5% Black and 1.5% Asian.
* Great Britain: White: 55,073,552 87.17% Asian: 6.92% Black: 3.01%
* USA: White 72.4% Black 12.6? Asian 4.8% Two or more races: 9.3%

So you are making a comparison with 2 countries with LESS diverse population AND less then 40% the population!
Those two factors make your argument specious at most!

Finally... How many NEW drugs do the drug companies of Great Britain and France release?

Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B
A benchmark report estimates that the cost of bringing a drug to market has more than doubled in the past 10 years
CSDD’s finding, a bellwether figure in the drug industry, is based on an average out-of-pocket cost of $1.4 billion and an estimate of $1.2 billion in returns that investors forego on that money during the 10-plus years a drug candidate spends in development. The center’s analysis drew from information provided by 10 pharmaceutical companies on 106 randomly selected drugs first tested in humans between 1995 and 2007.

The study concludes that another $312 million is spent on postapproval development—studies to test new indications, formulations, and dosage strengths—for a life-cycle cost of $2.9 billion,
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B

B) So what country in this world has developed more Drugs then the USA???
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)
95% of the new drugs coming on the market are developed for sale in the United States.
They are paid for by American consumers, while other countries, such as Canada, Germany and France, free ride at our expense.
The United States is the last major country that allows the market to set prices high enough to compensate pharmaceutical companies for their R&D investments.
Obama Care will increasingly control pharmaceutical prices as costs rise and federal and state funds fall short.
Major pharmaceutical advances will stop (How well will government labs work?), and the rest of the world will lose along with Americans.
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)

 

[Freewill]

One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare, early diagnosis for cancer, heart and kidney transplants, treatments for Hepatitis, HIV, Macular Degenration, Asthma, Major improvements in Orthopedics and artificial limbs, Diabetes Medications and Monitoring, Noninvasive Diagnostics, Tomography, Ultrasound, Vaccines for Cancer Prevention, Cervical Cancer Screening, and thousands of other medical miracles. Couple this with the expansions in Medicare and Medicaid, life savings and life altering medical care is available to both the rich and poor and it is being used as never before. The number of procedures performed by healthcare providers has increased by 400% over the last 50 years.

Countries who do not spend what the US does on health care, do they have the same services?

Not familiar with all countries but in Britain and France, basically yes. Services are delivered a bit differently. You might have to wait a bit longer than in the US for screenings and optional procedures but if you are really ill, services are every bit as good as in the US.

One of the big differences I noted in France was the pharmacies. They are so much more than what we have in the US in regard to healthcare. First, they are 100% about healthcare, no candies, cosmetics, or cell phones. Everyone in the pharmacy is trained in pharmacology. You don't have to wait a half hour to get prescriptions filled. You go to the counter hand them your prescription and they hand you a box of pills. Everything except specialized drugs are prepackaged. The price is the same at all pharmacies, about 25% to 90% less than what we pay in the US. Another big difference in pharmacies is they are there to consult with you concerning not just the medication but your illness often giving you information the doctor didn't. Many people will go to a pharmacist before going to the doctor.

Another difference in the systems is length of hospital stays. Beginning with the day you enter the hospital they are working toward getting you out of the hospital. I think they see the hospital as a place where you are treated and recovery begins but most of your recovery will be at home.

Most people are less concerned about healthcare issues than in the US and no one is worried about whether their treatment is covered or whether they can afford it.

If what you posted in this post is correct then it makes this statement in your other post not make sense: One of main reasons healthcare spending has been going up over the last 50 years is people demand better healthcare,

If they can have healthcare that is just as good then that isn't the reason that the US healthcare cost so much.

 

[Freewill]

[QU


Agree! A single payer system would force providers to compete for your care by improving outcomes and reducing costs. But that's not the system we have now. There's no incentive for them to change the way they do business. Which is why we should abolish insurance companies, have a single payer for all health care, and render things like chargemasters moot.

Single payer gives some people the entitlement to get to have their bills paid for by somebody else and that is wrong. It is thievery and will produce even more government control over our lives. Besides, this country can't afford socialized medicine with that $20 trillion debt we have and the cost of combined government already being 40% of the GDP.

I sure as hell don't want the filthy government controlling my health care.

Anybody that thinks socialized medicine will magically lower cost is dumber than a door knob. The kind of person Jonathan Gruber said was the "stupid Americans" that will believe any government lie.

We need to go back to a market based health care system and the filthy government need to stay out of it.

1. do you have health care insurance?
2. do you propose just letting people die?
3. do you propose to keep letting people go bankrupt?
4. what if all healthcare was paid for by corporate America, much like it is today?