Belarus sends in Troops....but why?

[SavannahMann]

Here is the problem. The lies Putin is telling to “justify” his actions.

First he wasn’t going to invade. Then he was merely reinforcing the “independent regions”. Then he was invading to free Ethnic Russians from persecution. Then he was going in to Denazify Ukraine. Now his excuse is he is moving to save Christians.

Tomorrow we will hear how Ukraine is dealing in stolen Russian Children as part of a human trafficking cabal. The day after it will be drugs.

It isn’t incumbent upon Ukraine to placate Russia. It is incumbent upon Russia to justify their actions. To make the case for war. Pitons excuses have been dumber and more unbelievable every day.

Kazakhstan told Putin to puss up a rope when he asked them for support and assistance.

So far. Nobody has come to Ukraines assistance. But now World War III has started. Belarus is now joining in. How long before Poland decides to invade Belarus to assist Ukraine?

The Russian Economy is in free fall. Putin could tell the truth. He just won’t. Instead every day it is another lie. And at this point the truth wouldn’t be believed either.

 

[Augustine_]

Russia turning around and going back is a relevant point to make, as it would be one possible solution that could avoid the risk of nuclear war.

Maybe somebody should make a list of possibilities that could end it, starting with the most probable or most possible, then down the list with the least.

I could see your suggestion being somewhat possible but not over the possibility of nuclear world war.

Come on Augustine, put your adult hat on. You have the balls to get involved here, now should you're smart enough to wear them.

Most probable is the total collapse of Russia's economy as strong man Putin tries to save face in MAGA-style hubris, and the unfortunate destruction of Ukraine. Only Putin can end this.

 

[Donald H]

No way ....if Putin wanted absolute victory he would have swept in with overwhelming Force immediately. He could have assembled half a million soldiers on his border and still had plenty of reserves for the rest of the country. At this point only two thirds of force has entered another full third is waiting over the Russian border and more over the Belarusian border. This is not a matter of miscalculation. If this is indeed the beginning of world war III Then Putin already knows more than we know about what's coming next. He didn't spend a whole month in China for nothing. So far he seems completely unfazed by all the sanctions obviously he expected those too.

You're really getting down to the 'nuts and bolts' of the issues now JO.
The read on the situation has been promoted by propagandists as exactly the opposite in that we're expected to see Russia (say Putin) out on a limb that's being sawed off from under him.

 

[Donald H]

You keep on thinking the Ukrainians will roll over and die but you are discovering they will fight…

Pootin started it…

There's no point in debating who started it Bruce. This isn't4 year olds in a sandbox war.

 

[justoffal]

Well said Bruce! Albeit it in an awkward way.
You didn't need to turn it into spamming by mentioning N.K. and Iran.

But you have tried to start thinking!

You keep on thinking the Ukrainians will roll over and die but you are discovering they will fight…

Pootin started it…

No I never said that.... Unfortunately they are choosing to fight.... they're following a popcorn Rambo who has no business making national decisions that lead his Nation into the hell that they are in now.

Whoever was in Zelensky's ear gave him some very bad advice. I'm not sure that Putin started this..... It doesn't matter anyway that doesn't make him right; But when the way out is so obviously clear.... Only a selfish prick would drag millions of people into a position of needless pridefulness....

jo

 

[Devils_Advocate]

No I never said that.... Unfortunately they are choosing to fight they're following a popcorn Rambo who has no business making national decisions that lead his Nation into the hell that they are in now.
Whoever was in Zelensky's ear gave him some very bad advice.
I'm not sure that Putin started this..... It doesn't matter anyway that doesn't make him right.
But when the way out is so obviously clear.... Only a selfish prick would drag millions of... people into a position needless pridefulness.... Either that or somebody who thinks he's cooperating with a larger body that he can trust to rescue him at the last moment.

So you are saying he should have surrendered the Ukraine to Moscow and allow Pootin to install his own Government that will support his mission?

 

[Donald H]

Most probable is the total collapse of Russia's economy as strong man Putin tries to save face in MAGA-style hubris, and the unfortunate destruction of Ukraine. Only Putin can end this.

I hear you! I'm impressed that you are taking part but not very impressed with the contribution.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

There's no point in debating who started it Bruce. This isn't4 year olds in a sandbox war.

Ummm, yes there is a reason why it should be debated seeing if Pootin illegally invaded a country then he should be called out for it…

Funny how Pootin is so innocent…

 

[Augustine_]

I hear you! I'm impressed that you are taking part but not very impressed with the contribution.

Well hey at least you're more impressed with my contribution than the world is with the competency of Russia's laughable military

 

[justoffal]

So you are saying he should have surrendered the Ukraine to Moscow and allow Pootin to install his own Government that will support his mission?

No I'm saying he should have taken the legal recourse. The Tiny toll he's exactling on them militarily is meaningless. The international pressures with trade sanctions and breaking of social ties a far more effective and would no doubt have worked with or without Ukraine's military resistance. If they didn't resist there would be no war it would be no destruction. But certainly the rest of the world would have gone to war with Russia the way they have now with the one exception that the ukrainians would still have a home in the meantime.

 

[Donald H]

No I never said that.... Unfortunately they are choosing to fight.... they're following a popcorn Rambo who has no business making national decisions that lead his Nation into the hell that they are in now.

Whoever was in Zelensky's ear gave him some very bad advice. I'm not sure that Putin started this..... It doesn't matter anyway that doesn't make him right; But when the way out is so obviously clear.... Only a selfish prick would drag millions of people into a position of needless pridefulness....

jo

Zelensky is a mystery.
He might be being propelled by a religious factor that's concurrent to his own personal religion.
And it could be that he's being threatened that all support will be withdrawn and he will be left with Russia's justice for his actions!

 

[Donald H]

Well hey at least you're more impressed with my contribution than the world is with the competency of Russia's laughable military

You're still missing the point. We don't want to see Russia defeated, and especially by US weaponry.

It's in everybody's best interests if Russia continues to play by the rules of the war that have been created. That is, no direct US involvement. And so you see, the most important consideration is to allow Russia to continue to play by those rules.

Don't forget, the alternative is smoking glass parking lots in the middle of big cities.

Come on Augustine, I can't make it any easier for you to understand!

 

[justoffal]

Zelensky is a mystery.
He might be being propelled by a religious factor that's concurrent to his own personal religion.
And it could be that he's being threatened that all support will be withdrawn and he will be left with Russia's justice for his actions!

Read an interesting piece the other night on the conflict between the various Orthodox churches in that region. No Question that part of this is a component of religious animosity. I'm convinced that Zalensky is in bed with NATO against the better interests of his own Nation. That doesn't make Putin's actions any less deplorable. But Putin has always been Putin.... He's nothing if not predictable. Had zelensky negotiated with him before any invasion took place I really do not think there would be any invasion. Maybe some of the terms would have been unpalatable but they could have been worked out over the next handful of years through the European court systems and believe it or not even through the Russian court systems.

Jo

 

[Donald H]

So far. Nobody has come to Ukraines assistance. But now World War III has started. Belarus is now joining in. How long before Poland decides to invade Belarus to assist Ukraine?

No, WW3 hasn't started, but there's significance in Belarus getting involved militarily.

Because the rules that have been established for the war don't explicitly state that Poland, a Nato country, isn't allowed to attack Belarus.

However, that also depends on Russia's interpretation of the rules?

Good contribution to the thread Savannah!

 

[tahuyaman]

That's an interesting idea to introduce here. But of course that can't be done at the level of the UNSC because both Russia and China would veto.

But there has been suggestions raised by the US of giving the General Assembly the power to put some teeth into it for America's benefit.

Good contribution to the discussion but I don't see how it can ever be relevant. Can you suggest some way?

They could remove them from the security council without china's approval. The UN has done it in the past.

 

[justoffal]

They could remove them from the security council without china's approval. The UN has done it in the past.

Once you start that process the security council is as good as gone. I suspect that is the reason they don't do it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What is going on in Ukraine that would make two of its neighbors massively uncomfortable? I don't buy the rhetoric that Belarus is a de facto satellite of Moscow. But what I do buy is that both Belarus and Moscow agree that NATO is up to no good in Ukraine and neither one of them want lethal weaponry located in that geography pointed at them. This does not make me a Putin sympathizer..... But certainly those will be the first words out of propagandists mouths...... However at this point any intelligent person would have to ask the same question. It's too easy to dismiss it as Putin's insane dream to rebuild the USSR.......There has to be something more to this than just naked aggression.

jo

Because their leader is Putin Jr.

 

[justoffal]

Because their leader is Putin Jr.

Honestly don't know too much about him or his nation....but I will certainly be researching it now. Thanks

Jo

 

[Donald H]

Read an interesting piece the other night on the conflict between the various Orthodox churches in that region. No Question that part of this is a component of religious animosity. I'm convinced that Zalensky is in bed with NATO against the better interests of his own Nation.

I would concur that is the most probable explanation for Zelensky's behaviour.

That doesn't make Putin's actions any less deplorable. But Putin has always been Putin.... He's nothing if not predictable.

There is no doubt that Putin is solid in his resolved.
Putin isn't one of the combatants in this war, anymore than Biden is. Their countries are the combatants.

Has zelensky negotiated with him before any invasion took place I really do not think they would be any invasion.

I'm not sure how Zlenesky would have had any power or influence to prevent the war by talking.

Maybe some of the terms would have been unpalatable but they could have been worked out over the next handful of years through the European court systems and believe it or not even through the Russian court systems.

Jo

JO, one side says that Russia is only intent on rebuilding the Soviet Union and the other side says that America is intent on pushing Nato right up to Russia's borders, and then conducting a war accross Russia's borders. I don't think there's any way of being able to suggest that Zelensky or his country had much to do with that.

So establishing which side is right on that, is of minor importance in comparison to the prospects of WW3. And that's where my interests lie!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Honestly don't know too much about him or his nation....but I will certainly be researching it now. Thanks

Jo

You will be appalled. Worst strongman in Europe.