Bible Questions

[koshergrl]

Irrespective?

 

[Derideo_Te]

She is right and I am willing to defend her against your false accusations.

I did not accuse her of anything.

Completely and utterly false. You accused Foxfyre of being "wrong" when she made the following statements;

Originally Posted by Foxfyre

Okay, since it has been brought up, QW and DT, Jesus NEVER insulted somebody by calling him names for what he did or did not believe or for being wrong or for sinning.

He reserved his negative adjectives for those who preached rules and laws and presumed to accuse, judge, and condemn others when they themselves failed to understand and follow the intent of the Law. In other words he criticized those who would harm others physically or materially in the name of God.

In fact in Matthew 5, in what we have dubbed 'The Sermon on the Mount" he ordered much caution in accusing and criticizing our fellow humans:

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.​

Now as with much of the scriptures, we don't have to take that 100% literally with our 21st Century understanding, but the intended message is pretty clear. It is a bad and dangerous thing to presume such superiority over another person and we sin when we do so.

You are irrational and tiresome. You have tacitly admitted to knowing less than nothing about what you allegedly believe in and what is even worse you are are falsely denigrating those who actually do know what they believe in. You are doing far more harm to yourself and your cause than you are capable of realizing.

You are a liar.

The posts in the thread do not lie.

 

[koshergrl]

Pfft, lol.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Completely and utterly false. You accused Foxfyre of being "wrong" when she made the following statements;

Now you want to redefine words, how typical.

Telling somebody they are wrong is not accusing them of anything, it is pointing out that she made a mistake. Last time I looked it was not illegal to take a position that is not Biblical. If it were, you would be in jail.

The posts in the thread do not lie.

That is because the posts are incapable of lying. Come to think of it, they are also incapable of telling the truth. They might be lies, or truth, but they are not lying.

You, however, are a lair.

 

[koshergrl]

I was going to go into the whole "posts don't lie" but figured it was over his head.

I settled for dismissal.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ok...I have made a decision and I think those who have been so kind in assisting me deserve an explanation the best I can give. It may not make sense...then again, maybe it will. And I have a request as well. I still will need help from time to time if I think of something or read or hear something and I am not sure of an answer. I can google, yes. But I can ask here, too. However, that will come in time...and no clear cut answer of WHEN or even IF.

I have decided to not read the bible any further. The more I read, the more the relationship with the childlike awe and friendliness and trust and comfort becomes threatented. I am familiar with some of the books of the bible, but I have never read it from front to back...nor do I plan to.

My relationship with God has always been between He and I. I chat with Him in my garden..or under the stars. I feel Him in everything I touch...my crystals (He made them so beautiful), His birds that sing to me, His bugs that come visit me, the trees and leaves whispering to me. I have always just talked to Him as I talk to you, to my friends, to people I am comfortable around. Just people. I never understood the phrase "I am a God fearing woman/man" because I never feared Him. I love Him and I know He loves me. Reading the bible will change all that. I will become more "aware" of what He is, what He can do, how I should be more humble perhaps or wrongs I have committed, etc. In short....the bible is the apple. I want to stay the innocent child in chatting with the God I love...not read things that will scare me or turn me away from how I always have been with Him. Nothing could do that, but once you see something...you can't UNsee it, if you know what I mean. So taking another bite out of that apple...I will become like Adam and Eve and the bible to me is that apple tree.

With that said..I DO want to read portions of it that show His compassion and mercy and love for His children. Us. Me. What gospels would you recommend for me to read? Proverbs? I like that one...full of wisdom and common sense. But what others are there I am not aware of?

Dear Gracie,

You don't need to read anything at all.

You have a very special relationship. You have a friend that you trust and who listens to you and who is there for you. You don't need anything else. Friendship is a gift and yours is a special gift. Just keep on doing what feels right for you. Your friend will understand.

Peace.

 

[koshergrl]

Dear Deredio:

Nobody wants to read your vapidisms. Please desist.

kg

 

[Derideo_Te]

Dear Deredio:

Nobody wants to read your vapidisms. Please desist.

kg

Ironic!

 

[koshergrl]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

You are nothing but an empty vessel. Have a nice day.

 

[hortysir]

He keeps putting words in my mouth, and attacking me based on them. If you don't like me calling him on it get him to stop doing it.

No problem, I think you SHOULD stop and correct whenever this happens.
Half of it is due to just plain misunderstanding what you were trying to say.

Half of it is from already assuming and questioning your intent as negative.
For that part, both of you might have to agree to forgive each other first for that perception of each other, and not start off with a negative spin or bias when you reply to each other. That is a mutual effort, where you are both tend to come at each other that way.

The miscommunication part is sincere and would happen anyway even between people
trying to accommodate each other. Those crossed signals and mixed messages are easier to untangle without the negative spins added on.

Maybe if we stick to the content of what is being said, the emotional attachments will drop in the process. those are probably carried over from the longstanding issues we are bringing up in this forum, and not part of the solutions that can come out of our discussions here.

I believe this process can lead to insightful resolution, and thank you for sticking with it.

I have ideas for resolving issues of prayer in schools and public institutions, etc. (also how to deal with sex ed, creation/evolution, and religion itself) if you would like to discuss solutions.
We all know the problems because people don't agree, but what solutions can we agree on?

Thank you for your attempt to intervene and mediate. Your intentions are goodhearted and accepted with all sincerity. The issue at hand is simple enough to resolve. The teachings of your Lord and Savior clearly state that refraining from profanity (amongst other things) is the expected behavior of those who believe in him and are trying to achieve salvation. This is either true or not true. Your interpretation will be final and unconditionally accepted irrespective of whichever way you choose to decide. Peace.

Key word is highlighted.

We're not perfect.
Just forgiven

 

[koshergrl]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

You are nothing but an empty vessel. Have a nice day.

You sound a little tense there, bud.

 

[emilynghiem]

There are people that ask Jesus what he would do and go out and kill people. I am not going to fall into that trap, nor am I going to pretend that I know better than someone else simply because I talk to Jesus. If DT wants to come in and admit he is wrong I will be merciful, as long as he insist on dictating when and how I can pray I will get in his face and offend him.

My dear Quantum:
1. when we hold anger in our hearts toward our brother, we have already committed murder in spirit by "killing" the relationship and the love/understanding between us.

2. if you wait until he admits wrong to be forgiving that is "conditional"
Believers in Jesus as God are called to love others as Jesus loves us which is unconditional
as God's love, not as man's material ways of only rewarding those who we feel deserve it.
We are supposed to rise above, and love others as God does, which means to offer the unconditional love and forgiveness of God first, without condition, but with faith that this allows God into the relationship to correct the wrongs AFTERWARD in that spirit of healing.
God's love and grace is not earned, but is rained upon us all in order for healing and growth.

it takes a leap of faith, or else understanding of how grace works, to forgive first and let the corrections follow. but that is how it works, that's how God's grace and will saves us where otherwise we as human beings would keep projecting our own conditions to be met before we forgive, and this causes the other person to do the same so both people deadlock.
It kills the relationship in spirit, that is not life but death by unforgiveness which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that passes on to inflict a cycle of retribution and suffering.
We are supposed to break this cycle of sin and suffering by invoking grace through Christ.

See James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that ye may be healed. There are also passages in Luke Mark or Matthew where we remove the beam from our own eyes before we are better able to help our neighbor remove a splinter. Quantum, it does not say to insist your neighbor remove a beam or a splinter first! It is a mutual process.

Change happens in response to what we agree to forgive and change.
What we cannot forgive, that is where we ask for God to please intervene and bring forgiveness first, to remove the deadlock so we can deal with the rest ourselves.

We are going to have those limits and moments to remind us we are human,
we are limited and biased where we are not going to be able to let go of things without help.

So this makes us equal, since everyone has these limits and we need to invoke God's love which is unconditional to intervene where we run into conditions. God's love is greater than our human love which has its limits; this is to humble us, and to remind us what it means to be human and imperfect while God's perfect love knows no bounds and no conditions but includes everyone where we do not and make rules of who we will love or try to forgive and understand. God is greater and that is why we turn to God.

Thank you for being honest about where you have lines in the sand and conditions. Obviously DT has limits also, and me and
everyone else here. This is where we ask help to be bigger and let God in to overcome those conditions we have that otherwise
limit or block our ability to understand and love each other more fully, as Jesus would call us to be "perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect" meaning spiritually mature and whole, not divided and weakened by our flaws.

Forgiveness allows God to intervene, and asking for that help is where God respects our free will and waits for us to ask permission for God's will to be done, it cannot be forced on us.

Your ability to ask help with forgiveness determines your connection with the salvation process. If DT can forgive or ask help to forgive the conflict, that is DT's choice in the process. I hope we all choose to ask help to forgive for the sake of our relations in Christ.
All the other issues will find correction in the process, once we all agree to let forgiveness in.

Take care QW and I will continue to keep all this in prayer!
Love peace and wisdom to you, may you be truly blessed!
Yours truly,
Love, Emily

 

[Hollie]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

Add stalking and a desperate need for my attentions to the list of pathologies which afflict you.

 

[emilynghiem]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

You are nothing but an empty vessel. Have a nice day.

Dear DT: Maybe Koshergirl's spiritual role and gifts are different, would you consider that?

I understand what she is saying trying to warn of demons and negative influences that are muddling what people are trying to say. Even if she does not have gifts for addressing these, maybe her role is to judge and point out some of these negatives from the positives. Sometimes having an empty or more objective less engaged position helps with that process.
Maybe she is here to help in other ways. And we are here to help her in return, since obviously we have different knowledge and perspectives. Can we use this to our advantage?

 

[emilynghiem]

Lowering yourself to their level means that no one can tell the difference between you and them.

Since when is identifying liars, cheats and depraved perverts "lowering yourself to their level"?

Its' not. Carry on lying and promoting depravity.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me." Matt 5:11

Also Matthew 5:44 on praying for those who persecute or oppress that they might be blessed.

I believe the more we all pray to uplift each other on here, the more we shall all be blessed.
what we forgive of our neighbors is forgiven unto us.
what we pray for others to be blessed, we all receive blessings that are multiplied.

God's will love and grace are infinitely greater than all humanity's differences and problems combined. And the jabs I see going back and forth on here, are petty in comparison to the potential we have here spiritually. God is going to win this one. And we shall all rejoice.

 

[Foxfyre]

Add *ironic* to the tome of words you and hollie don't understand.

You are nothing but an empty vessel. Have a nice day.

Dear DT: Maybe Koshergirl's spiritual role and gifts are different, would you consider that?

I understand what she is saying trying to warn of demons and negative influences that are muddling what people are trying to say. Even if she does not have gifts for addressing these, maybe her role is to judge and point out some of these negatives from the positives. Sometimes having an empty or more objective less engaged position helps with that process.
Maybe she is here to help in other ways. And we are here to help her in return, since obviously we have different knowledge and perspectives. Can we use this to our advantage?

Good point. Through the limited glimpses we have of Jesus in the New Testament, he again and again looked past the imperfections of people and found the good within them. And he called upon them to use it.

So when my fellow USMBers here tell me I'm wrong about an interpretation of Scripture, I'm not going to quibble even when I am pretty sure that I am not.

But I am quite confident of one thing. Jesus would never attack one who was seeking truth or knowledge, and I'm pretty sure he would seriously frown on those who present him and his teachings in an unkind, angry, or hateful way.

And yes, some of our USMBers are quite certain I'm dead wrong about that.

 

[emilynghiem]

You are nothing but an empty vessel. Have a nice day.

Dear DT: Maybe Koshergirl's spiritual role and gifts are different, would you consider that?

I understand what she is saying trying to warn of demons and negative influences that are muddling what people are trying to say. Even if she does not have gifts for addressing these, maybe her role is to judge and point out some of these negatives from the positives. Sometimes having an empty or more objective less engaged position helps with that process.
Maybe she is here to help in other ways. And we are here to help her in return, since obviously we have different knowledge and perspectives. Can we use this to our advantage?

Good point. Through the limited glimpses we have of Jesus in the New Testament, he again and again looked past the imperfections of people and found the good within them. And he called upon them to use it.

So when my fellow USMBers here tell me I'm wrong about an interpretation of Scripture, I'm not going to quibble even when I am pretty sure that I am not.

But I am quite confident of one thing. Jesus would never attack one who was seeking truth or knowledge, and I'm pretty sure he would seriously frown on those who present him and his teachings in an unkind, angry, or hateful way.

And yes, some of our USMBers are quite certain I'm dead wrong about that.

Thanks FoxFyre:

RE: "Jesus would never attack one who was seeking truth or knowledge, and I'm pretty sure he would seriously frown on those who present him and his teachings in an unkind, angry, or hateful way."

Yes, that just proves individually none of us is perfect like Jesus, but maybe collectively we can "check and balance" each other when we start to go off on personal tangents, and reel each other back on track. Collectively the people or church CAN be perfect or whole this way, but you are right, individually we each get into trouble quickly taking on all that responsibility that only Jesus has as the one mediator, where we are all part of that process.

We just have to help each other when we start to fall out.

I do believe it will take unity among Christians from both left and right of the political extremes to set an example and help others to pull the nation together in turn.

this is just to remind us we can't do it by ourselves, left to our own devices we make messes.
Unity in Christ is greater than our political differences, so it will be clear the authority of law is coming from a higher source and not just one party trying to control another. No one is going to be "more in charge than others" but we will equally share responsibility, using our differences for God's intended purpose instead of fearing how these have been abused.

I see it like a huge orchestra that has different sections playingn different music.
And we are supposed to play in tune and in harmony to get the whole symphony right.
But right now we are freaked out by noises and wrong notes, and people fighting over kicking whole sections out who don't seem to belong with the group. But if we figure out our parts God is giving us to play, the whole thing is written to harmonize and work out.

So we need our section leaders to organize and straighten out their members, and see how this all fits together. None of us is the director, and none of us wrote the score. We are just trying to figure out and play our parts right, and make it work for the good of the whole.
Fascinating that we are in the last stages of development, where we get to see this happen!
What a wonderful time to be alive and witness the wonders going on all around the planet!
(well, except for those darn trombones and cymbals making a racket and ruining the song)

 

[koshergrl]

Christ used the analogy of a body...there are different parts that all work together to create the whole.

 

[Foxfyre]

Dear DT: Maybe Koshergirl's spiritual role and gifts are different, would you consider that?

I understand what she is saying trying to warn of demons and negative influences that are muddling what people are trying to say. Even if she does not have gifts for addressing these, maybe her role is to judge and point out some of these negatives from the positives. Sometimes having an empty or more objective less engaged position helps with that process.
Maybe she is here to help in other ways. And we are here to help her in return, since obviously we have different knowledge and perspectives. Can we use this to our advantage?

Good point. Through the limited glimpses we have of Jesus in the New Testament, he again and again looked past the imperfections of people and found the good within them. And he called upon them to use it.

So when my fellow USMBers here tell me I'm wrong about an interpretation of Scripture, I'm not going to quibble even when I am pretty sure that I am not.

But I am quite confident of one thing. Jesus would never attack one who was seeking truth or knowledge, and I'm pretty sure he would seriously frown on those who present him and his teachings in an unkind, angry, or hateful way.

And yes, some of our USMBers are quite certain I'm dead wrong about that.

Thanks FoxFyre:

RE: "Jesus would never attack one who was seeking truth or knowledge, and I'm pretty sure he would seriously frown on those who present him and his teachings in an unkind, angry, or hateful way."

Yes, that just proves individually none of us is perfect like Jesus, but maybe collectively we can "check and balance" each other when we start to go off on personal tangents, and reel each other back on track. Collectively the people or church CAN be perfect or whole this way, but you are right, individually we each get into trouble quickly taking on all that responsibility that only Jesus has as the one mediator, where we are all part of that process.

We just have to help each other when we start to fall out.

I do believe it will take unity among Christians from both left and right of the political extremes to set an example and help others to pull the nation together in turn.

this is just to remind us we can't do it by ourselves, left to our own devices we make messes.
Unity in Christ is greater than our political differences, so it will be clear the authority of law is coming from a higher source and not just one party trying to control another. No one is going to be "more in charge than others" but we will equally share responsibility, using our differences for God's intended purpose instead of fearing how these have been abused.

I see it like a huge orchestra that has different sections playingn different music.
And we are supposed to play in tune and in harmony to get the whole symphony right.
But right now we are freaked out by noises and wrong notes, and people fighting over kicking whole sections out who don't seem to belong with the group. But if we figure out our parts God is giving us to play, the whole thing is written to harmonize and work out.

So we need our section leaders to organize and straighten out their members, and see how this all fits together. None of us is the director, and none of us wrote the score. We are just trying to figure out and play our parts right, and make it work for the good of the whole.
Fascinating that we are in the last stages of development, where we get to see this happen!
What a wonderful time to be alive and witness the wonders going on all around the planet!
(well, except for those darn trombones and cymbals making a racket and ruining the song)

LOL. I like the orchestra analogy. Not only are we all playing different instruments, but when some are playing Mozart's "The Magic Flute" and others Beethoven's "Fifth Symphony" and still others mix in Wagner's "The Ride of the Valkyries' along with a Brahms lullabye, all at the same time, it can get really discordant.

But break it down and it is still all music.