Bible Questions

[Avatar4321]

Christ didn't seek reconciliation with demons, however. Nor did he attempt to reason with those committed to denying him. He didn't attempt to reason with Pontius Pilate...and when he reprimanded people for being wrong, he wasn't always gentle. He was quite blunt and declarative.

He didn't let people remain possessed by demons. He cast them out and healed them.

Saul was a man who mocked and persecuted the Saints. I have no doubt that you would consider him as a demon. Yet, Christ saw value in him. He reached out and plucked Him from the path He was on and turned him into one of the greatest missionaries of of HIs generation.

With God, all things are possible. Even those who some may think act like demons and even participate in the killing of the Saints.

The methods Christ use were always an expression for His love of God and His love of His fellow man.

 

[koshergrl]

I didn't say he didn't cast them out or heal them. I said he didn't spend time mealy mouthing them. He called them by name. And I wouldn't call Saul a demon. He was offered salvation, and he took it. If he had rejected Christ, Christ would have rejected him.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not being Jesus I do not pretend to know what he would do. I know I will not let someone whose only intent is to make fun of believers walk away just because he can cite Bible verses about rolling over like a scared puppy.

If you don't knw what Jesus would do, ask Him. You don't have to roll over. There is alot one can do between rolling over and doing nothing and downright mocking others.

When Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan, the Adversary quoted scriptures to tempt Him. Jesus did not mock Satan. He didn't just roll over. He firmly cited scriptures and continued on with building the Kingdom. He didn't let the Adversaries tactics turn Him into someone He wasn't or betray His principles.

I believe we can be bold, gentle, kind, charitable, and merciful without backing down from defending the truth.

 

[koshergrl]

However he did chew out the disciples for failing to adequately sit and watch with him, when he got back.

 

[Avatar4321]

And it behooves us to always check ourselves before we slide into anger and condemnation of people...I have to watch myself for profanity (obviously this is something I struggle with) and I don't just mean swearing....we're supposed to be sober and sedate and to always set a good example.

But I have a hard time believing that means we must never point out depravity, cruelty, stupidity, ignorance or when someone is doing the devil's work.

We all have our struggles. I struggle with using sarcasm. It's demeaning, deceptive, and very unkind and times. But it comes naturally for me. So I find myself checking myself and stopping myself before I post responses sometimes.

I do this because I have faith in Christ and I do believe we need to live better lives and be examples, as you do. So I completely understand how you feel.

There are ways we can point out the truth without being unkind about it.

 

[koshergrl]

It's all in perception. Most progressives see any criticism or any accurate depiction of their vile practices, policies and behavior as "unkind".

In fact, it's a reflection of who they are. What they see as "unkind" is really just a description of themselves. They don't like to be described in truthful terms, and they will pull out all the stops to prevent people from doing it.

 

[Avatar4321]

However he did chew out the disciples for failing to adequately sit and watch with him, when he got back.

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death. (D&C 121:43-44)

I think that pretty much sums up how Christ lived and how we are supposed to live.

After all, without charity we are nothing. What does it matter if we reprove or rebuke someone if we don't reach out and show them love and bring them to the truth? If someone remains in ignorance of the truth because they see our example and are turned away frm it, how has our rebuking and reproving helped anything?

If I have to suffer some mocking from demons in order to save a soul or two, that's all right. If the Lord asks me to suffer even death itself for the cause, I should follow Christ example and forgive them that kill me. Why? Because that's what He's taugh. I love Him. I want to be like Him in every way I can because He is my hero and Savior.

The scriptures are useless if we dont let them change our hearts and our behavior. His Atonement exists specifically so we can change. Not just to forgive us of our sins, but to make us Holy through His actions.

Do we truly believe in the power of God and the power of Godliness, or do we just have a form thereof and draw near to Him with our mouths and lips and have our hearts far from Him?

It's something we need to ask ourselves as Disciples of Jesus Christ. Because we need the power of God in our daily lives if we are to build the Kingdom under His direction.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Christ didn't seek reconciliation with demons, however. Nor did he attempt to reason with those committed to denying him. He didn't attempt to reason with Pontius Pilate...and when he reprimanded people for being wrong, he wasn't always gentle. He was quite blunt and declarative.

He didn't let people remain possessed by demons. He cast them out and healed them.

Saul was a man who mocked and persecuted the Saints. I have no doubt that you would consider him as a demon. Yet, Christ saw value in him. He reached out and plucked Him from the path He was on and turned him into one of the greatest missionaries of of HIs generation.

With God, all things are possible. Even those who some may think act like demons and even participate in the killing of the Saints.

The methods Christ use were always an expression for His love of God and His love of His fellow man.

Jesus did not cast any demons out of the Sadducees or Pharisees, he just called them out for their attitudes. I am pretty sure that is why they had a huge problem with him, they weren't upset because he was preaching without a license.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not being Jesus I do not pretend to know what he would do. I know I will not let someone whose only intent is to make fun of believers walk away just because he can cite Bible verses about rolling over like a scared puppy.

If you don't knw what Jesus would do, ask Him. You don't have to roll over. There is alot one can do between rolling over and doing nothing and downright mocking others.

When Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan, the Adversary quoted scriptures to tempt Him. Jesus did not mock Satan. He didn't just roll over. He firmly cited scriptures and continued on with building the Kingdom. He didn't let the Adversaries tactics turn Him into someone He wasn't or betray His principles.

I believe we can be bold, gentle, kind, charitable, and merciful without backing down from defending the truth.

There are people that ask Jesus what he would do and go out and kill people. I am not going to fall into that trap, nor am I going to pretend that I know better than someone else simply because I talk to Jesus. If DT wants to come in and admit he is wrong I will be merciful, as long as he insist on dictating when and how I can pray I will get in his face and offend him.

 

[Avatar4321]

Jesus did not cast any demons out of the Sadducees or Pharisees, he just called them out for their attitudes. I am pretty sure that is why they had a huge problem with him, they weren't upset because he was preaching without a license.

One would have to conclude that if Jesus didn't cast demons out of them, then they probably werent demons.

Oh and Their problem with Him was that He was winning disciples and they feared losing their power and livelihood.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sometimes I think before we get into these discussions that I Corinthians 13 should be required reading.

Here it is in it's entirety (NIV):

1 Corinthians 13:

1If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Jesus did not cast any demons out of the Sadducees or Pharisees, he just called them out for their attitudes. I am pretty sure that is why they had a huge problem with him, they weren't upset because he was preaching without a license.

One would have to conclude that if Jesus didn't cast demons out of them, then they probably werent demons.

Oh and Their problem with Him was that He was winning disciples and they feared losing their power and livelihood.

Is that why people persecuted Mormons?

 

[koshergrl]

Christ didn't seek reconciliation with demons, however. Nor did he attempt to reason with those committed to denying him. He didn't attempt to reason with Pontius Pilate...and when he reprimanded people for being wrong, he wasn't always gentle. He was quite blunt and declarative.

He didn't let people remain possessed by demons. He cast them out and healed them.

Saul was a man who mocked and persecuted the Saints. I have no doubt that you would consider him as a demon. Yet, Christ saw value in him. He reached out and plucked Him from the path He was on and turned him into one of the greatest missionaries of of HIs generation.

With God, all things are possible. Even those who some may think act like demons and even participate in the killing of the Saints.

The methods Christ use were always an expression for His love of God and His love of His fellow man.

Jesus did not cast any demons out of the Sadducees or Pharisees, he just called them out for their attitudes. I am pretty sure that is why they had a huge problem with him, they weren't upset because he was preaching without a license.

BINGO. Christ was not reluctant to criticize his tormentors.

Which is why I don't buy the whole "Christians must never point out the foulness of their detractors, it paints an unloving image of Christians". I think that's silly and not supported by scripture.

I also have a problem with Christians who are much, much more critical (and publicly critical) of their brothers and sisters in Christ than they are of those who openly reject Christ and ridicule and attack Christians. We are told to gently and privately admonish fellow believers, in the event they are actively engaged in egregious sin. I don't think identifying depraved anti-Christian trolls as depraved anti-Christian trolls qualifies as egregious sin.

Profanity, maybe.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm not willing to tolerate internet trolls who bounce around with no motivation except to demonize Christians and spread lies to discredit God and the bible. I have no problem with insulting them, because for the most part, my insults are 100 percent true. It's one of those situations where "You're racist if you comment on the statistics that show the black population has particular issues." In this case, it's "You're a bad Christian if you identify evil and decry demonic and depraved activity."

It's just not true.

Lowering yourself to their level means that no one can tell the difference between you and them.

Since when is identifying liars, cheats and depraved perverts "lowering yourself to their level"?

Its' not. Carry on lying and promoting depravity.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me." Matt 5:11

 

[koshergrl]

As I pointed out...you see accurate description of your character as an insult.

I just see it as an accurate description of character. If you don't like it, change your character.

But you won't. Instead you try to force others to only say nice things about you. That's the way progressives work. And if that doesn't work, then you'll change the language, and ultimately the law, to force people to only describe you in a particular, approved way.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It was QW that made the egregious claim that Jesus insulted people. He was using Jesus as a shield to cover his own objectionable behavior.

I was dong no such thing, you whiny little bitch. I was pointing out that your insistence that insulting people is un Christian is something only a drooling idiot would claim. You then tried to use Bible verses, completely out of context, to prove me wrong.

Exactly.

Except that she is wrong, and you, being ignorant, don't know enough about the Bible to point out why she is wrong. You do, however, find it incredibly convenient to agree with her, so, even if you did know, you wouldn't point out she is wrong.

She is right and I am willing to defend her against your false accusations.

Once again you are correct.

What makes her correct? Is it the fact that her misinterpretation of the verse makes it incredibly convenient for you to try and dictate to believers?

Would it be that your fellow Christians shared your rationality, temperament and insight.

I can see why you would say that, since it would allow you to insult them, their beliefs, and ignore them as you impose your beliefs on the everyone.

Guess what, there are quite a few of us that refuse to let you tell us how to live.

You are irrational and tiresome. You have tacitly admitted to knowing less than nothing about what you allegedly believe in and what is even worse you are are falsely denigrating those who actually do know what they believe in. You are doing far more harm to yourself and your cause than you are capable of realizing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Lowering yourself to their level means that no one can tell the difference between you and them.

Since when is identifying liars, cheats and depraved perverts "lowering yourself to their level"?

Its' not. Carry on lying and promoting depravity.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me." Matt 5:11

Hypocrite.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

She is right and I am willing to defend her against your false accusations.

I did not accuse her of anything.

You are irrational and tiresome. You have tacitly admitted to knowing less than nothing about what you allegedly believe in and what is even worse you are are falsely denigrating those who actually do know what they believe in. You are doing far more harm to yourself and your cause than you are capable of realizing.

You are a liar.

 

[koshergrl]

Lowering yourself to their level means that no one can tell the difference between you and them.

Since when is identifying liars, cheats and depraved perverts "lowering yourself to their level"?

Its' not. Carry on lying and promoting depravity.

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me." Matt 5:11

Yeah, he wasn't talking about you. He was talking about me.

 

[Derideo_Te]

He keeps putting words in my mouth, and attacking me based on them. If you don't like me calling him on it get him to stop doing it.

No problem, I think you SHOULD stop and correct whenever this happens.
Half of it is due to just plain misunderstanding what you were trying to say.

Half of it is from already assuming and questioning your intent as negative.
For that part, both of you might have to agree to forgive each other first for that perception of each other, and not start off with a negative spin or bias when you reply to each other. That is a mutual effort, where you are both tend to come at each other that way.

The miscommunication part is sincere and would happen anyway even between people
trying to accommodate each other. Those crossed signals and mixed messages are easier to untangle without the negative spins added on.

Maybe if we stick to the content of what is being said, the emotional attachments will drop in the process. those are probably carried over from the longstanding issues we are bringing up in this forum, and not part of the solutions that can come out of our discussions here.

I believe this process can lead to insightful resolution, and thank you for sticking with it.

I have ideas for resolving issues of prayer in schools and public institutions, etc. (also how to deal with sex ed, creation/evolution, and religion itself) if you would like to discuss solutions.
We all know the problems because people don't agree, but what solutions can we agree on?

Thank you for your attempt to intervene and mediate. Your intentions are goodhearted and accepted with all sincerity. The issue at hand is simple enough to resolve. The teachings of your Lord and Savior clearly state that refraining from profanity (amongst other things) is the expected behavior of those who believe in him and are trying to achieve salvation. This is either true or not true. Your interpretation will be final and unconditionally accepted irrespective of whichever way you choose to decide. Peace.