Biden on forgiving student loan debt

[pknopp]

Funny how relieving people of debt will drive up prices but ultra low rates won't.

Ultra low rates do help drive up prices, but they are not responsible for the pretty much on pace increase in prices over the last few decades. But yes, you can point to low mortgage rates as being responsible for some portion of the high housing prices.

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

As for relieving people of debt: that makes me look to inflation, not rates. I dont think the other poster had a correct take on what he called "Rubinism".

We can just pretend there is no inflation like we do now.

 

[Slade3200]

Well there is only so much a president can do with policy. EO's sure but they speak platitudes and try to coordinate with Congress who are the actual legislators. I think we give credit and blame to Presidents for many things that are out of their control. I'm glad to see Biden give a little push back against the far left progressive wing. Shows that he is reflecting on some balance in the tone that he is trying to set.

While I was very cynical, I gave him a shot when he claimed he wanted unity. However, as he stood by while Democrats and leftist leaders condemned all Conservatives and Trump voters as the most evil people.. and then he made broad, sweeping generalizations himself. Combine those with his aggressive EO's and sprint from compromise on issues.. and it was quickly clear he only says unity, he doesn't actually want it.

And that's fine, he doesn't have to have it. But he can't stand up there and claim it. He's a fraud in that case.

I think he could easily change overnight and pass the loan forgiveness next week, and no media would question him on it, because they are card-carrying Democrats and want it themselves.

Biden stayed out of that noise. He said very little about Trump and the impeachment trial after he took the office. God, could you imagine if Biden Dems rioted at the capital had Trump won? How many tweets do you think Trump would've made trolling and talking shit about the Left?? 100s, 1000s by now?

I don't think his actions stand in the way of unity. Nothing he can ever do will be agreed upon by everybody. thats not possible and I don't think that is the qualifier of unity. You can have policy disagreements and vigorously debate. I believe he just wants us to start working with each other like we are all Americans and not Good vs Evil... despite the many evil elements we still have in our political system and country as a whole. Those voices need to be ignored

Honey, Biden is senile and can't keep his foot out of his mouth-------he has to stay quiet especially since it is likely that a body double has been filling in for him as it is.

Pretty amazing that a senile old timer whooped Trump so bad huh?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Funny how relieving people of debt will drive up prices but ultra low rates won't.

Ultra low rates do help drive up prices, but they are not responsible for the pretty much on pace increase in prices over the last few decades. But yes, you can point to low mortgage rates as being responsible for some portion of the high housing prices.

As for relieving people of debt: that makes me look to inflation, not rates. I dont think the other poster had a correct take on what he called "Rubinism".

What was my take on "Rubinism"?

That it is in part based on the concept of larger deficits raising rates. Not strictly correct, IMO. But i can seen how you got from A to B. Another time maybe.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

Who said it wasn't? Somewhat higher prices are one result of lower rates. But the lower rates are a symptom of a bigger problem. To wit: Americans dont have any gotdam money to buy shit.

 

[pknopp]

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

Who said it wasn't? Somewhat higher prices are one result of lower rates. But the lower rates are a symptom of a bigger problem. To wit: Americans dont have any gotdam money to buy shit.

Some American's have no money. Others have been recipients of the trillions that has been pumped into the markets.

But yes, this is all a symptom of much larger problems.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Funny how relieving people of debt will drive up prices but ultra low rates won't.

Ultra low rates do help drive up prices, but they are not responsible for the pretty much on pace increase in prices over the last few decades. But yes, you can point to low mortgage rates as being responsible for some portion of the high housing prices.

As for relieving people of debt: that makes me look to inflation, not rates. I dont think the other poster had a correct take on what he called "Rubinism".

What was my take on "Rubinism"?

That it is in part based on the concept of larger deficits raising rates. Not strictly correct, IMO. But i can seen how you got from A to B. Another time maybe.

DEFINITION of Rubinomics
Rubinomics is an economics discipline founded by Robert Rubin that focuses on the impact of a balanced budget on long-term rates of interest. It is a combination of the words "Rubin" and "economics. Robert Rubin was the Secretary of the Treasury under former President Bill Clinton from 1995-1999. His primary focus was balancing the U.S. budget and its effect on long-term interest rates. This approach tends be concerned with the effect that deficits have on inflation over the long term.

Rubinomics (investopedia.com)

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We can just pretend there is no inflation like we do now.

There has been too little inflation for much of the last 10 years. That's also not a good sign. Inflation can be too high or too low. Both are symptomatic of broader problems.

You can probably guess what comes next: People dont have any gotdam money.

 

[pknopp]

We can just pretend there is no inflation like we do now.

There has been too little inflation for much of the last 10 years. That's also not a good sign. Inflation can be too high or too low. Both are symptomatic of broader problems.

You can probably guess what comes next: People dont have any gotdam money.

Needing inflation is a false precept. We could actually go back to manufacturing things as opposed to living off a rising market.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Some American's have no money. Others have been recipients of the trillions that has been pumped into the markets.

Agreed 100%. But a person that makes10 times the average household isnt buying 10 times more goods. So we have piles of wealth that are prone to being destroyed. We have blips in the market that cause $100 billion dollars of loss in a day.

The insurance losses on 9/11 were about $40 million. But you see the pronounced difference in property damage and loss of life vs. Monetary losses. So, when wealth is hoarded, it is undervalued by the hoarder. It tends to cause recklessness. Destruction of wealth. And yes, it would be a gross simplofication to think this sums up our economic situation. Its one of ccountless factors to consider in an economy with a large (and accelerating!) wealth and income gap.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Needing inflation is a false precept.

By every school of economocs i have ever bothered to learn about, inflation is absolutely necessary as a symptom (and can even be a driver of) of healthy growth. This is why governments take action, when inflation is too low. Japan tried recently, for example (using a type of QE). They did not meet with much success.

 

[pknopp]

Some American's have no money. Others have been recipients of the trillions that has been pumped into the markets.

Agreed 100%. But a person that makes10 times the average household isnt buying 10 times more goods. So we have piles of wealth that are prone to being destroyed. We have blips in the market that cause $100 billion dollars of loss in a day.

And why inflation is so low. Those who have got the bulk of the money have all the televisions and cars they need already but still we keep on pumping.

If those who owe student loans had that money freed up, most would spend it.

The insurance losses on 9/11 were about $40 million. But you see the pronounced difference in property damage and loss of life vs. Monetary losses. So, when wealth is hoarded, it is undervalued by the hoarder. It tends to cause recklessness. Destruction of wealth. And yes, it would be a gross simplofication to think this sums up our economic situation. Its one of ccountless factors to consider in an economy with a large (and accelerating!) wealth and income gap.

Not only is it undervalued it's never enough. (yeah, it's all related)

 

[pknopp]

Needing inflation is a false precept.

By every school of economocs i have ever bothered to learn about, inflation is absolutely necessary as a symptom (and can even be a driver of) of healthy growth. This is why governments take action, when inflation is too low. Japan tried recently, for example (using a type of QE). They did not meet with much success.

Japan has been fine. Being an island does have some affect on that but they have been fine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And why inflation is so low.

Because a lot of people dont have any money. Same reason we are aeeing record consumer debt levels.

What do you suppose happens when prices continue to increase (even slowly), there is record consumer debt, wages are garbage, and we have slowly whittled away our only tools to combat recession and depression (rate decreases, government spending)?

A reckoning is coming for this country. 2008 was a light practice. An NFLer jogging a lap to warm up. And when it comes, this country is going to be forced to make very big decisions about who bears the pain of it. And as long as our government is controlled by the most wealthy among us... Well...

 

[pknopp]

And why inflation is so low.

Because a lot of people dont have any money. Same reason we are aeeing record consumer debt levels.

What do you suppose happens when prices continue to increase (even slowly), there is record consumer debt, wages are garbage, and we have slowly whittled away our only tools to combat recession and depression (rate decreases, government spending)?

A reckoning is coming for this country. 2008 was a light practice. An NFLer jogging a lap to warm up. And when it comes, this country is going to be forced to make very big decisions about who bears the pain of it. And as long as our government is controlled by the most wealthy among us... Well...

I agree with that. It doesn't take much to understand that bubbles always pop and the one we are in will pop with a loud bang. Rather than deal with that we keep on inflating the bubble.

 

[Slade3200]

What do you all think of Bidens answer to this question?

What it sounded like was that (like the whole minimum wage issue) it should be discussed at another, more appropriate time.

It was a townhall. They covered a wide variety of issues

 

[Slade3200]

What do you all think of Bidens answer to this question?

Just one more thing that Biden promised to get elected and now he's walking away from.

I missed his promise, can you post the quote or statement? I can't find it

 

[bendog]

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

Who said it wasn't? Somewhat higher prices are one result of lower rates. But the lower rates are a symptom of a bigger problem. To wit: Americans dont have any gotdam money to buy shit.

Deficits no longer cause rates to rise, as we just witnessed for four years as the econ expanded before covid, so I don't see debt forgivenss as inflationary, although there are other reasons to not forgive it.

And I don't see why low rates would cause prices to rise .... unless the low rates spurred consumer consumption to cause demand to outstrip supply. And that is not happening .... unless we'd applied the tax cut to consumers rather than those with money to invest

 

[Slade3200]

The stuttering fuck

now that is not nice to say... funny yes, nice no

Funny why?

Because it is an exaggeration of reality. That is always the best comedy.

Funny to make fun of a persons disability... Yeah man, freakin hilarious

 

[pknopp]

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

Who said it wasn't? Somewhat higher prices are one result of lower rates. But the lower rates are a symptom of a bigger problem. To wit: Americans dont have any gotdam money to buy shit.

Deficits no longer cause rates to rise, as we just witnessed for four years as the econ expanded before covid, so I don't see debt forgivenss as inflationary, although there are other reasons to not forgive it.

And I don't see why low rates would cause prices to rise .... unless the low rates spurred consumer consumption to cause demand to outstrip supply. And that is not happening .... unless we'd applied the tax cut to consumers rather than those with money to invest

U.S. House Prices Expected to Rise 5.7% More in 2021

 

[bendog]

So if raising prices by forgiving loans is bad why isn't raising prices by low rates?

Who said it wasn't? Somewhat higher prices are one result of lower rates. But the lower rates are a symptom of a bigger problem. To wit: Americans dont have any gotdam money to buy shit.

Deficits no longer cause rates to rise, as we just witnessed for four years as the econ expanded before covid, so I don't see debt forgivenss as inflationary, although there are other reasons to not forgive it.

And I don't see why low rates would cause prices to rise .... unless the low rates spurred consumer consumption to cause demand to outstrip supply. And that is not happening .... unless we'd applied the tax cut to consumers rather than those with money to invest

U.S. House Prices Expected to Rise 5.7% More in 2021

But you are drawing a cause effect correlation. And 1 there was a drop in sales previously, so now there are more sales and refi's, and 2 there's nothing to show whether the reason for increased prices is due to people buying bigger houses because low rates keep payments low