Boom!!!! Judge in Manafort case says Mueller only wants to hurt Trump

[Billy_Bob]

As the Judge said...........
“I’m sure you’re sensitive to the fact that the American people feel pretty strongly about no one having unfettered power,” Ellis said.

What unfettered power?

Evidence of a crime is evidence of a crime.

Guidelines of the independent council............did Rosenstein give unfettered power to Mueller................

Are he within those bounds...............and are the cases presented to the court within that power...............

Obviously it's not "unfettered" if there is a designated scope, dope.

Which the Judge asked for a full copy of..............geesh....

The judge has no need for that. The information pertinent to the motion by the defense is already available.

LOL

It is totally relevant to the legality of the witch hunt..

 

[Billy_Bob]

You need to read the whole transcript of the exchange between the Judge and SC lawyer. Ellis was smoking the shit out of them. That memo was produced only after the raid. You know like "OMG I need a memo for the raid Ron!!!!!!!".

By the way that raid was truly Stasi. That's police state shit right there Jake.

Bullshit. It says clearly that Mueller had this authority since his appointment.

His authority allows him to go anywhere he pleases.................which is what he's doing.......

Hey pal................the Judge called their asses out on it............which part of decade old accusations apply to Russia ..............hmmmmm

NONE.

What part of a land deal does a blowjob apply to?

Nothing has moved. The point is, the investigation follows the evidence. Evidence of a crime will not be ignored simply because it's not related to the cause of the investigation.

The investigation has limitations. this is why they got rid of the Independent Counsel laws as they had no oversight. There is evidence the Special Counsel exceeded their mandate. If true Mueller is in deep crap both ethically and criminally.

 

[edward37]

Everyone except trump morons want to see trump hurt ,,The worst POS ever to enter our WH

 

[Snouter]

...the Russian Election Interference...

Can you explain what the "Russian Election Interference" theory is by any chance? For example, we know Crooked Hillary interfered with the election process in several proven ways. What evidence do you have Russia did anything at all on behalf of any of the candidates?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Everyone except trump morons want to see trump hurt ,,The worst POS ever to enter our WH

I wonder how you would feel being the target of an illegal investigation? To have your door kicked in a o-dark 30 and be humiliated on live tv....

 

[eagle1462010]

Interesting report on Fusion GPS and Glenn Simpson Congressional Testimony.....very long...

page 62 starts their explanation of investigating for Trump. In 2015....page 76 they hire Steele

Read the Transcript of Glenn Simpson's Testimony to Congress

 

[JakeStarkey]

UPDATE 3-U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case - CompuServe Politics

REDACTED MEMO

Ellis complained the bulk of that August memo he received was highly redacted. He told Mueller's office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they would sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

"I'll be the judge," Ellis said.

Ellis asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no "reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank" could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI probe into Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen and said the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Under 28 CFR there can not be two investigations in process if the person of interest is being investigated by the Special Counsel. All investigations by The DOJ and FBI must cease according to the law. As long as Mueller lists them as persons of interest NO ONE ELSE CAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

I don't see how Cohen can be investigated by the Eastern district while he is listed in Muellers case... This is a serous breach in the law. Cohen is listed in two investigations when the law clearly states this is unlawful.

Cohen is getting twisted by Mueller and it violates the law..

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

Thanks. You just posted corroboration for my points and destroyed your own.

I think I'll let the Judge decide that.................His position on this matters.........whether you like it or not.

We will all wait on the judge, who will decide that Rosenstein is the one who delineates the scope of the investigation, not the judge.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Everyone except trump morons want to see trump hurt ,,The worst POS ever to enter our WH

I wonder how you would feel being the target of an illegal investigation? To have your door kicked in a o-dark 30 and be humiliated on live tv....

Cohen, however, and Manafort, have been the targets of legal investigations.

 

[eagle1462010]

UPDATE 3-U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case - CompuServe Politics

REDACTED MEMO

Ellis complained the bulk of that August memo he received was highly redacted. He told Mueller's office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they would sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

"I'll be the judge," Ellis said.

Ellis asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no "reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank" could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI probe into Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen and said the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Under 28 CFR there can not be two investigations in process if the person of interest is being investigated by the Special Counsel. All investigations by The DOJ and FBI must cease according to the law. As long as Mueller lists them as persons of interest NO ONE ELSE CAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

I don't see how Cohen can be investigated by the Eastern district while he is listed in Muellers case... This is a serous breach in the law. Cohen is listed in two investigations when the law clearly states this is unlawful.

Cohen is getting twisted by Mueller and it violates the law..

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

Thanks. You just posted corroboration for my points and destroyed your own.

I think I'll let the Judge decide that.................His position on this matters.........whether you like it or not.

We will all wait on the judge, who will decide that Rosenstein is the one who delineates the scope of the investigation, not the judge.

Which will allow the judge to determine if the prosecution is out of bounds..........yes we will wait.

 

[Billy_Bob]

UPDATE 3-U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case - CompuServe Politics

REDACTED MEMO

Ellis complained the bulk of that August memo he received was highly redacted. He told Mueller's office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they would sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

"I'll be the judge," Ellis said.

Ellis asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no "reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank" could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI probe into Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen and said the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Under 28 CFR there can not be two investigations in process if the person of interest is being investigated by the Special Counsel. All investigations by The DOJ and FBI must cease according to the law. As long as Mueller lists them as persons of interest NO ONE ELSE CAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

I don't see how Cohen can be investigated by the Eastern district while he is listed in Muellers case... This is a serous breach in the law. Cohen is listed in two investigations when the law clearly states this is unlawful.

Cohen is getting twisted by Mueller and it violates the law..

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

Thanks. You just posted corroboration for my points and destroyed your own.

I think I'll let the Judge decide that.................His position on this matters.........whether you like it or not.

We will all wait on the judge, who will decide that Rosenstein is the one who delineates the scope of the investigation, not the judge.

Its going to be real interesting how the judge handles the Mueller crew going outside their legal scope.. IMHO they should be slapped down hard and the whole mess closed down.

 

[edward37]

Everyone except trump morons want to see trump hurt ,,The worst POS ever to enter our WH

I wonder how you would feel being the target of an illegal investigation? To have your door kicked in a o-dark 30 and be humiliated on live tv....

You're getting what you deserve ,what you've had coming to you for a long time

 

[edward37]

Under 28 CFR there can not be two investigations in process if the person of interest is being investigated by the Special Counsel. All investigations by The DOJ and FBI must cease according to the law. As long as Mueller lists them as persons of interest NO ONE ELSE CAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

I don't see how Cohen can be investigated by the Eastern district while he is listed in Muellers case... This is a serous breach in the law. Cohen is listed in two investigations when the law clearly states this is unlawful.

Cohen is getting twisted by Mueller and it violates the law..

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

Thanks. You just posted corroboration for my points and destroyed your own.

I think I'll let the Judge decide that.................His position on this matters.........whether you like it or not.

We will all wait on the judge, who will decide that Rosenstein is the one who delineates the scope of the investigation, not the judge.

Its going to be real interesting how the judge handles the Mueller crew going outside their legal scope.. IMHO they should be slapped down hard and the whole mess closed down.

it's not happening

 

[Ame®icano]

Unfreaking real. Awesome development.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud," District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump's "prosecution or impeachment," Ellis said.

"That's what you're really interested in," said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan.

He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing."

Judge in Manafort case says Mueller's aim is to hurt Trump - CNNPolitics

Manafort is getting get out of jail free.
Cohen is getting off.
Flynn looks like he's going to walk.
Obstruction is weak even Hillary knows it won't work.
Mueller is 0-4.

Damn, after being bitch slapped twice by two different courts his career maker case is looking like a sinking ship thats about to take its captain with it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

^^^ It's not happening. The judge can have his opinion, but he must follow the law. Flynn has pled out, and Manafort and Cohen will eventually plea deal. If Mueller wants to make sure that Trump is held accountable to the law yet the judge says Mueller wants to hurt Trump, well, yes, criminals think they are probably being hurt by the criminal justice system. I certainly hope so.

 

[edward37]

Unfreaking real. Awesome development.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud," District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump's "prosecution or impeachment," Ellis said.

"That's what you're really interested in," said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan.

He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing."

Judge in Manafort case says Mueller's aim is to hurt Trump - CNNPolitics

Manafort is getting get out of jail free.
Cohen is getting off.
Flynn looks like he's going to walk.
Obstruction is weak even Hillary knows it won't work.
Mueller is 0-4.

Damn, after being bitch slapped twice by two different courts his career maker case is looking like a sinking ship thats about to take its captain with it.

You know what wishful thinking is?

 

[Ame®icano]

Unfreaking real. Awesome development.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud," District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump's "prosecution or impeachment," Ellis said.

"That's what you're really interested in," said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan.

He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing."

Judge in Manafort case says Mueller's aim is to hurt Trump - CNNPolitics

Manafort is getting get out of jail free.
Cohen is getting off.
Flynn looks like he's going to walk.
Obstruction is weak even Hillary knows it won't work.
Mueller is 0-4.

Damn, after being bitch slapped twice by two different courts his career maker case is looking like a sinking ship thats about to take its captain with it.

You know what wishful thinking is?

Are you talking about collusion?

How long this investigation is going, fifteen months?

It all smacks of a typical Trump plan and drive them insane over months with a latter-day version of the Chinese water torture. A long slow push of minimal moves to achieve the maximum outcome.

The net result is that instead of the investigation delegitimizing Trump, it’s the investigation itself which has been deligitimised. Mueller has spent a year on a political goose chase and has come up with precisely nothing, especially within the given mandate. The result we have so far is a sign of how successful Trump’s strategy of dealing with the whole situation has been that he’s now begun to openly taunt Mueller and the investigation on social media, calling it a witch hunt. Mueller is desperate, and looking for some way out. The recent FBI raid he ordered on Trump’s attorney was a unique and brutal violation of any notion of client attorney privilege whether you were a special counsel or not.

To quote Newt Gingrich’s reaction to it: “Setting up a precedent that a prosecutor is allowed to dig into your life until finding a crime is a threat to the rule of law and a threat to every American.”

It was Mueller’s one last gasp attempt to get out of his dilemma by provoking Trump to fire him, which Trump won’t oblige him by doing, since he’s now got him exactly where he always planned to have him.

Not everyone is taking the leftist bait.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mueller's investigation has legitimized the concerns about Trump's criminality.

The Judge is right that Mueller will hold Trump accountable, even if that means he goes through people like Manafort, whom by remit he has every legal and moral right to twist to get the evidence on Trump.

 

[toomuchtime_]

UPDATE 3-U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case - CompuServe Politics

REDACTED MEMO

Ellis complained the bulk of that August memo he received was highly redacted. He told Mueller's office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they would sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

"I'll be the judge," Ellis said.

Ellis asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no "reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank" could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI probe into Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen and said the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Under 28 CFR there can not be two investigations in process if the person of interest is being investigated by the Special Counsel. All investigations by The DOJ and FBI must cease according to the law. As long as Mueller lists them as persons of interest NO ONE ELSE CAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

I don't see how Cohen can be investigated by the Eastern district while he is listed in Muellers case... This is a serous breach in the law. Cohen is listed in two investigations when the law clearly states this is unlawful.

Cohen is getting twisted by Mueller and it violates the law..

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

Thanks. You just posted corroboration for my points and destroyed your own.

I think I'll let the Judge decide that.................His position on this matters.........whether you like it or not.

We will all wait on the judge, who will decide that Rosenstein is the one who delineates the scope of the investigation, not the judge.

No, the judge will find Rosenstein's letter of authorization was too broad and that even then Mueller went beyond the authority granted to him by the letter. The Inspector General will issue a report soon that will level similar criticisms, Rosenstein will be reassigned to whatever the Justice Department's version of traffic court is and will resign. Since this judge has accused Mueller of lying and bending the rules to illegitimate ends, he will open an investigation into all of Mueller's actions to date and that will effectively shut down the whole faux investigation. Adam Schiff will then have nothing to talk about but Stormy Daniels underpants.

 

[westwall]

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................

ahem.... did you read the transcript of the hearing?

it was not a cold case, the FBI was already investigating it....it got moved over to Mueller when the special counsel was appointed.

Yes, the FBI interviewed manofort waaaaaay back then and determined that his crimes were too minor to continue the investigation.

Yes.
That's what I am trying to find out.... if Manafort was being investigated by the FBI BEFORE the Russian Election Interference investigation began, during the Russian investigation only by a different team of agents, or was this a long long time ago, like 5 to 10 years ago closer to when it happened?

Eagle said he thought it was opened on Manafort a couple of years ago or so....

Still don't know if it was before the Russia Investigation began on the possible Trump Team conspiracy with the Russians or not?

To me, if it was opened on Manafort BEFORE the Trump team investigation opened, then they had other sources that lead to him being investigated.

Or was it after Manafort went to work for Trump, or before the press broke the news that the Ukrainian papers showed Manafort being paid or slipped $10 or $20 million for his campaign work there....kind of an ''under the table thing'' coupled with Manafort changing the republican platform to favor Russia over the Ukraine story that broke....that forced Manafort to resign?

I'd like to know when they began their investigation on him...it would help on all of our speculations, (mine, yours, Eagle's etc) of what's really happening imo.

He was investigated, and they declined to pursue him. Till now. mueller is trying to get manafort to compose a sonnet that mueller can then use to go after trump. It is a lie, and it will always be a lie, but mueller, being the corrupt scumbag that he is, doesn't care.

 

[edward37]

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................

ahem.... did you read the transcript of the hearing?

it was not a cold case, the FBI was already investigating it....it got moved over to Mueller when the special counsel was appointed.

Yes, the FBI interviewed manofort waaaaaay back then and determined that his crimes were too minor to continue the investigation.

Yes.
That's what I am trying to find out.... if Manafort was being investigated by the FBI BEFORE the Russian Election Interference investigation began, during the Russian investigation only by a different team of agents, or was this a long long time ago, like 5 to 10 years ago closer to when it happened?

Eagle said he thought it was opened on Manafort a couple of years ago or so....

Still don't know if it was before the Russia Investigation began on the possible Trump Team conspiracy with the Russians or not?

To me, if it was opened on Manafort BEFORE the Trump team investigation opened, then they had other sources that lead to him being investigated.

Or was it after Manafort went to work for Trump, or before the press broke the news that the Ukrainian papers showed Manafort being paid or slipped $10 or $20 million for his campaign work there....kind of an ''under the table thing'' coupled with Manafort changing the republican platform to favor Russia over the Ukraine story that broke....that forced Manafort to resign?

I'd like to know when they began their investigation on him...it would help on all of our speculations, (mine, yours, Eagle's etc) of what's really happening imo.

He was investigated, and they declined to pursue him. Till now. mueller is trying to get manafort to compose a sonnet that mueller can then use to go after trump. It is a lie, and it will always be a lie, but mueller, being the corrupt scumbag that he is, doesn't care.

Mueller is far more honest that the best your scumbag republicans have, a war hero respected by both parties. a republican, as your morons support a a coward and a traitor