Boycott Israel

[Shusha]

Part of this ignores the basic interrogative.

• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel does not adhere to principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel. Is that true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Is this true?
• The BDS openly calls for Israel to comply with international law? What particular Law?
• The Front Page of the BDS Movement has a picture of a BDS Movement sigh that reads: "Boycott Israel Apartheid"
Is Israel a true Apartheid State?​

The BDS Movement is not quite truthfull.

Exactly. The BDS movement depends on half-truths, lack of truth and outright lies in order to put a veneer of evil over Israel while actually Israel acts equal to (and oftentimes times greater) the expectations demanded of other States.

 

[toastman]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Coyote, et al,

UP FRONT: The articles are both interesting as they are informative. (Great Contribution and Think Pieces)
QUESTIONs: While the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement is a program in peace; is it by its nature attractive and incitefully of violence? And is that a threat?
If the BDS Movement is non-violent, then it should not followed by violence. Does the BDS Movement leave violence in its wake, seeking to delegitimize and demonize Israel?

An interesting article: BDS: how a controversial non-violent movement has transformed the Israeli-Palestinian debate

Excellent post. Good read. Very well researched and unbiased article.

(COMMENT)

Part of this ignores the basic interrogative.

• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel does not adhere to principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel. Is that true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Is this true?
• The BDS openly calls for Israel to comply with international law? What particular Law?
• The Front Page of the BDS Movement has a picture of a BDS Movement sigh that reads: "Boycott Israel Apartheid"
Is Israel a true Apartheid State?​

The BDS Movement is not quite truthfull.

◈ Isreal does not deny the Arab Palestinian any "rights," but not at the expense of Israeli "◈rights."
◈ Did the Arab Palestinian agree that Area "C" was under full Israel administration and control of Area "C?" ◈ Has the Arab Palestinian ever activated the Dispute Resolution Process?
◈ What does the UN Charter have to say about "Domestic Juridiction?" But exactly what does the BDS Movement have to say about what the Israeli-Palestinians are being discriminated?​

The story is half told. But the incitement to violence is still there.

Most Respectfully,
R

In a word: yes.

Provide links showing that I am incorrect if you disagree.

What violence?

Rocco CONSTANTLY provides links and CONSTANTLY demolishes your arguments.
So please !!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Tunisia's Jewish minister targeted in anti-Israel protests

 

[Coyote]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Coyote, et al,

UP FRONT: The articles are both interesting as they are informative. (Great Contribution and Think Pieces)
QUESTIONs: While the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement is a program in peace; is it by its nature attractive and incitefully of violence? And is that a threat?
If the BDS Movement is non-violent, then it should not followed by violence. Does the BDS Movement leave violence in its wake, seeking to delegitimize and demonize Israel?

An interesting article: BDS: how a controversial non-violent movement has transformed the Israeli-Palestinian debate

Excellent post. Good read. Very well researched and unbiased article.

(COMMENT)

Part of this ignores the basic interrogative.

• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel does not adhere to principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land. Is this true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel. Is that true?
• The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Is this true?
• The BDS openly calls for Israel to comply with international law? What particular Law?
• The Front Page of the BDS Movement has a picture of a BDS Movement sigh that reads: "Boycott Israel Apartheid"
Is Israel a true Apartheid State?​

The BDS Movement is not quite truthfull.

◈ Isreal does not deny the Arab Palestinian any "rights," but not at the expense of Israeli "◈rights."
◈ Did the Arab Palestinian agree that Area "C" was under full Israel administration and control of Area "C?" ◈ Has the Arab Palestinian ever activated the Dispute Resolution Process?
◈ What does the UN Charter have to say about "Domestic Juridiction?" But exactly what does the BDS Movement have to say about what the Israeli-Palestinians are being discriminated?​

The story is half told. But the incitement to violence is still there.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you saying BDS incites violence? Or, as a movement attracts a violent fringe? If at it’s heart it is a non-violent movement, and that certainly seems to be what it’s stated goal is, then it is not responsible for what a few bad actors do in it’s name. In that it is a lot like the BLM movement here, it rejects violence, is specifically non violent, yet the volatility of the issues they are drawing attention to attracts violence.

On the points you made...first part:
1. DOES Israel adhere to principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity? If so, why are Palestinians in Area C under the much harsher military law, while Jews are prosecuted under the far more rights conscious Israeli Civil Law?

2. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is occupying and colonising Palestinian land. Isn’t that a matter of perspective? One side’s “disputed” territory is the other side’s “occupied” territory. Which is true? Both maybe?

3. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel. There are valid arguments there about discrimination against Arabs in employment, building permits, funding of infrastructure and schooling in Arab districts. In the south where Hamas routinely lobs rockets, most Israeli Jews have access to bomb shelters while most Arabs do not. The settlement building in Area C would seem to exclude Arab Israeli’s who are just as crunched for housing as Jewish Israeli’s. While the Law, on it’s surface, makes it illegal, the de facto reality is that there is discrimination and little is done to address it because (imo) there is a significant and politically powerful minority that simply does not feel the Arabs have a right to be there.

4. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Is this true?
On the surface, yes it is true. But it is also a can of worms and a very complicated issue that questions whether there is such a right and ignores the effect such an action would have on Israel.

5. The BDS openly calls for Israel to comply with international law? What particular Law? Good point...it is never articulated.

6. The Front Page of the BDS Movement has a picture of a BDS Movement sigh that reads: "Boycott Israel Apartheid"
Is Israel a true Apartheid State?
No, that is dishonest, and by making such comparisons it deflects from the real issues that do exist and could be addressed if they weren’t creating false equivalencies to Aparthied.

 

[Coyote]

Is BDS creating any POSITIVE change for the Palestinians? I am not sure...it seems in some ways to have actually made things more difficult for them by sowing a lot of chaos. For example - increased and overt cooperation with Israel and Arab states is imo more likely to lead towards a real solution for the Palestinians than BDS. While there is injustice and inequality occurring in the treatment of Palestinians and Arab Israeli's - comparing it to Apartheid is dishonest and buries the real issues.

Is BDS a successful strategy? It CAN be - but is it in the way it is being applied? Boycotts in and of themselves are absolutely a legitimate means of protest and free speech. But what is BDS's end goal - how is "success" measured? This doesn't seem clear.

An interesting article: BDS: how a controversial non-violent movement has transformed the Israeli-Palestinian debate

The movement for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel – known as BDS – has been driving the world a little bit mad. Since its founding 13 years ago, it has acquired nearly as many enemies as the Israelis and Palestinians combined. It has hindered the efforts of Arab states to fully break their own decades-old boycott in pursuit of increasingly overt cooperation with Israel. It has shamed the Palestinian Authority government in Ramallah by denouncing its security and economic collaboration with Israel’s army and military administration. It has annoyed the Palestine Liberation Organization by encroaching on its position as the internationally recognised advocate and representative of Palestinians worldwide.

It has infuriated the Israeli government by trying to turn it into a leper among liberals and progressives. It has exasperated what is left of the Israeli peace camp by nudging the Palestinians away from an anti-occupation struggle and towards an anti-apartheid one. It has induced such an anti-democratic counter-campaign by the Israeli government that it has made Israeli liberals fear for the future of their country. And it has caused major headaches for the Palestinians’ donor governments in Europe, which are pressured by Israel not to work with BDS-supporting organisations in the Palestinian territories, an impossible request given that nearly all major civil society groups in Gaza and the West Bank support the movement.

In the UK, BDS has brought turmoil to courts and local councils, embroiling them in disputes over the legality of local boycotts of settlement goods. In the US, BDS has caused two dozen states to pass bills or issue orders inhibiting or penalising those boycotting Israel or its settlements, pitting Israel’s allies against free speech advocates such as the American Civil Liberties Union. It has ignited debates in Protestant churches in the US, some of the largest of which have divested from companies that profit from Israel’s occupation. It has become the bane of college administrators, forced to adjudicate complaints from BDS-supporting professors and students that their free speech has been stifled, and claims by Zionist faculty, donors and undergraduates that their campuses have become “unsafe” spaces. It has pulled liberals toward greater support for the Palestinians, making Israel an increasingly partisan issue in the US, associated less with Democrats and progressives than with Trump, evangelicals and the far right....

Boycott that targets an ethnic group is a hate crime,
nothing legitimate about it.

It targets a state.

Was boycotting South Africa a hate crime because the ruling power was one particular race?

 

[rylah]

BDS targets a single ethnic group, and their main agenda is denial of rights to that ethnic group.

They systematically assault Jewish students, business, property, call to armed uprising in the US and murder of Zionists, they spread vile anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, hail Hitler and use Nazi imagery, rejecting any opposing view and rational dialogue by violent sabotage - they're the Palestinian Brown-shirts.

Comparing South Africa to Israel is a racist trope in itself, this is an irrational xenophobic projection suggesting Jews can be viewed as a foreign race. This is especially vivid when the same libel is used to cover for real institutionalized apartheid in all of the Muslim countries, while demanding Jews fulfill unrealistic demands, after they've already achieved an unprecedented level of inclusiveness, equality and security in their society.


Q.Now how much hypocrisy does it take to say this:

It targets a state.

Was boycotting South Africa a hate crime because the ruling power was one particular race?

... after saying this?

Is Israel a true Apartheid State?
No, that is dishonest, and by making such comparisons it deflects from the real issues that do exist and could be addressed if they weren’t creating false equivalencies to Aparthied.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, Coyote, et al,

I'll try to answer as best I can with my limited knowledge.

1. DOES Israel adhere to principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity? If so, why are Palestinians in Area C under the much harsher military law, while Jews are prosecuted under the far more rights conscious Israeli Civil Law?

(COMMENT)

• ARTICLE 66 [ Link ] • Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

"In case of a breach of the penal provisions promulgated by it by virtue of the second paragraph of Article 64 [ Link], the Occupying Power may hand over the accused to its properly constituted, non-political military courts, on condition that the said courts sit in the occupied country. Courts of appeal shall preferably sit in the occupied country."

2. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is occupying and colonizing Palestinian land. Isn’t that a matter of perspective? One side’s “disputed” territory is the other side’s “occupied” territory. Which is true? Both maybe?

(COMMENT)

The question is a bit deeper than that. The Original Occupation, in this case, was established in 1967, on the route of the Jordanian forces. It became Occupied Jordanian Territory. In Octber 1988, the Hashemite King broke all ties with the West Bank and abandon the territory that was already in the hands of the Israelis. So, ended the Occupation of Sovereign Jordanian Territory. The Israelis never occupied any territory that was sovereign to the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinian admit this. The Arab Palestinians never attempted to establish a remedy with the Israelis until the Oslo Accords. In 1994, The Jordanians established an International Boundary with Israel (without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank). There was never an intermediate self-governing territory between Isreal and Jordan (ie. the State of Palestine).

The territory is called "occupied" by the Arab Palestinians because the "situation exists which factually amounts to an occupation the law of occupation applies – whether or not the occupation is considered lawful."

3. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is discriminating against Palestinian citizens of Israel. There are valid arguments there about discrimination against Arabs in employment, building permits, funding of infrastructure and schooling in Arab districts. In the south where Hamas routinely lobs rockets, most Israeli Jews have access to bomb shelters while most Arabs do not. The settlement building in Area C would seem to exclude Arab Israeli’s who are just as crunched for housing as Jewish Israeli’s. While the Law, on it’s surface, makes it illegal, the de facto reality is that there is discrimination and little is done to address it because (imo) there is a significant and politically powerful minority that simply does not feel the Arabs have a right to be there.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure that I can answer this. I know that there are five major areas of concern expressed by some. But the expression comes mainly from external Arab as opposed to domestic Arabs.

• Areas of Concern:

1. Revocation of Citizenship and the Ongoing Ban on Palestinian Family Unification
2. Forced Displacement of the Bedouin in the Naqab (Negev)
3. Erosion of the Rule of Law
4. Settlements and the Annexation of the West Bank
5. Shrinking Space for Human Rights Organizations

BUT, there is something that we should all remember, and that is:

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter, but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

• Arab Israelis: Do you feel discrimination as Arabs in Israel? •

Your response sound very similar to this video. And there are valid points here.

4. The BDS Movement openly states that Israel is denying Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes. Is this true?
On the surface, yes it is true. But it is also a can of worms and a very complicated issue that questions whether there is such a right and ignores the effect such an action would have on Israel.

(COMMENT)

Yes. the Right of Return (RoR) will in the next decade or so, become a non-issue. This is handled differently around the world. And it is a special issue in the Arab Palestinian - Israeli conflict. I think we are on middle ground here.

5. The BDS openly calls for Israel to comply with international law? What particular Law? Good point...it is never articulated.

(COMMENT)

Yes, OK we agree again.

6. The Front Page of the BDS Movement has a picture of a BDS Movement sigh that reads: "Boycott Israel Apartheid"
Is Israel a true Apartheid State?
No, that is dishonest, and by making such comparisons it deflects from the real issues that do exist and could be addressed if they weren’t creating false equivalencies to Apartheid.

(COMMENT)

Yes, OK we agree again.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Many if not most of the artists who announce plans to play in Israel and then withdraw do so because of harassment of the type mentioned here, including death threats and "doxxing."

If BDS was so confident of the morality of its cause, it wouldn't need to use such tactics. But whether the threats are organized by the BDS movement or are done by overzealous supporters, the BDS Movement has to the best of my knowledge never discouraged people from sending death threats and harassment campaigns to artists who want to play in Israel.

(full article online)

BDS is so moral! (ElderToons) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Aqel is only representative of one type of person that human rights organizations do not consider truly human, based on their literature and tweets. Jews who live in Judea and Samaria have no human rights either, because when they are killed or attacked - as happened yesterday where a pregnant woman and others were shot for being Jewish - these supposed human rights NGOs are utterly silent (or in this case, an ex-HRW official seemed to blame the victimsmore than the terrorist.) They might utter a condemnation for a bus bomb within the Green Line, but they don't say a word when Jews are slaughtered or attacked in land that these hypocrites believe shoudld be Judenrein.

HRW and Amnesty and the others love showing how much they support the human rights of terrorists. But that is because they consider terrorists human - but anyone who is Jewish, or who supports Jews, in the "West Bank" or Jerusalem is not truly considered human, and therefore they have no rights.

(full article online)

If you don't support Issam Aqel's human rights, you don't support human rights @amnesty @hrw ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

The choice not to fight fire with my own boycotts directed at Israel’s enemies is definitely a personal one, and not the only reasonable option. For example, many years ago a commenter left a story about his decision to boycott Arab shops in Jerusalem as a statement against BDS targeting Israel. And while he and I (or he and anyone else) are free to agree or disagree with that decision, it must be pointed out that his decision was personal and thus profoundly different than the choices BDS is asking others to make.

That’s because this person chose to deprive himself of the goods he might have bought at the prices he might have received. He also chose to announce clearly that he made the economic decision he did for political reasons. Finally, he was willing to accept the consequences of the choice he’s made. Those consequences might be good (word getting out that boycotts go both ways) or bad (increased hostility between Israeli Arabs and Jews). They can also be internal (from feelings of satisfaction to discomfort regarding the targets he chose for his boycott action). But they are consequences that he was prepared to bear.

Contrast that with the BDS “movement” that is all about getting other people to choose boycott and divestment and (although rarely mentioned by BDS advocates) bear the consequences.

(full article online)

Personal Boycotts (Divest This!) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Sprung! Roger Waters Caught Lying About Reason for Tribute Band Cancellation of Israel Tour

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel Aerospace Industries closes $160m drone deal with Vietnam

 

[Sixties Fan]

http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/12/10/israeli-gas-line-to-jordan-lauded-as-boost-for-‎peace/

 

[Sixties Fan]

In Rhode Island, the small but active RI Coalition for Israel immediately responded to the Jewish Voice for Peace pressure campaign, and the Rhode Island State Police (as well as Boston Police) did not cancel their Israel trips.

(full article online)

Anti-Semitic "Deadly Exchange" campaign can be defeated when local pro-Israel groups respond quickly

 

[Sixties Fan]

Report: Australia set to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital

 

[Sixties Fan]

Italian Government Leader Matteo Salvini visits Israel

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here’s the latest installment in our ongoing series of posts documenting BDS fails.

(full article online)

BDS is failing (Dec. 2018)

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel Represented by Four of Ten Finalists in First UN Travel Tech Competition

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Ignorance is bliss to these people. Anything to validate what they have come to believe in ]

After inquiries by The Algemeiner, Vásquez said in a statement posted on social media on Wednesday that he “expressed extremely aggressive views” against Zionists — people who support the Jewish nation’s right to self-determination — “because they believe in the genocide of ethnic and religious minorities.”

“My views on Zionism do not reflect my views on Judaism,” he said. “My views reflect the racist and Islamophobic principles intrinsic in Zionism.”

Yet he expressed “regret” over the situation, saying it’s been explained to him “why people are taking my anti-Zionist views the way they are.”

“To anyone that genuinely feel scared, I’m sorry — I would have done things differently had I known it would actually instill fear in innocent people,” he continued.

(full article online)

NYU Jewish Student Center Temporarily Closes After BDS Supporter Shares ‘Antisemitic, Potentially Threatening’ Posts

 

[Sixties Fan]

Arab League threatens Brazil over embassy move to Jerusalem