Bribery is a loser

[NoVote]

I think enough people see that and will vote to end the drama and embarrassment. Let’s not make a martyr out of him by driving this impeachment train off a cliff.

Yeah? Vote for who? Mike Huckabee got it right, the left is unfit for leadership

 

[Slade3200]

if Trump was interested in corruption he would have mentioned the ceo of burisma, the guy actually accused of being corrupt, or one of the many others. But no, it was the DNC and Biden. Wake up

the CEO wasnt the former vice pres of the USA,,

but your right about the rest,,, it is about the DNC collusion,, to bad joe shot his mouth off and got drawn into it

what Joe shot his mouth off about was perfectly legit. Just because you pretend it’s a crime doesn’t make it a crime. The CEO of Burisma is the guy who was accused of a crime. If trump wanted to root out corruption then Thay would have been a valid target. But let’s fave facts. Trump doesn’t give a shit about corruption unless he can use it for personal gain

at this point its an appearance of a crime and based on the facts it is an ethics issue

appearance of a crime?! Based on what? You can look at anything and say there’s the appearance of a crime. But if you want to accuse or investigate you need credible evidence. You don’t have that here. Sorry

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

 

[Slade3200]

I think enough people see that and will vote to end the drama and embarrassment. Let’s not make a martyr out of him by driving this impeachment train off a cliff.

Yeah? Vote for who? Mike Huckabee got it right, the left is unfit for leadership

Sure, I think Huck or Biden would wipe the floor with Trump

 

[progressive hunter]

the CEO wasnt the former vice pres of the USA,,

but your right about the rest,,, it is about the DNC collusion,, to bad joe shot his mouth off and got drawn into it

what Joe shot his mouth off about was perfectly legit. Just because you pretend it’s a crime doesn’t make it a crime. The CEO of Burisma is the guy who was accused of a crime. If trump wanted to root out corruption then Thay would have been a valid target. But let’s fave facts. Trump doesn’t give a shit about corruption unless he can use it for personal gain

at this point its an appearance of a crime and based on the facts it is an ethics issue

appearance of a crime?! Based on what? You can look at anything and say there’s the appearance of a crime. But if you want to accuse or investigate you need credible evidence. You don’t have that here. Sorry

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

 

[Olde Europe]

I am far from a Trump supporter, however I need to call out yet another misstep from the Democrats. I posted about how Obstruction was a losing argument after the Mueller Report was released and now I see them doing it again with the Bribery claim.

I get that Bribery is in the constitution so they want to draw a simple and direct line with their charges for impeachment but what Trump did and what the context of bribery in the constitution is are two different things. By their definition, politicians and all past presidents commit bribery in the course of their foreign affairs. What Trump did was an abuse of office by dealing for personal gain, that should be the focus, not bribery. What the constitution was trying to protect from was politicians being paid to make policy... of course the lines are blurred with all the lobbying that goes on in Washington, a system that I’d happily like to see reformed, but that’s another story.

Best thing for Dems to do is wrap up the hearings. Get all the facts out with as little hyperbole as possible and then not file for impeachment but rather leave it up to the voters in next years election. Trump is as swampy as they come and he cares more about the fight than the future. I think enough people see that and will vote to end the drama and embarrassment. Let’s not make a martyr out of him by driving this impeachment train off a cliff.

This is one of he most disheartening texts I have read in a long time. Sorry to say so...

Let me explain. Assume Mr. Slade applies for a building permit. The official on the other side explains, "Sure you can have your permit, and build a house for yourself and your family, desperate as you are for getting out of the shithole you are currently living in. But, first I need you to do me a favor, though. ..." The official, the sole power over the future of Mr. Slade's family's living conditions, then explains to Mr. Slade this, that, and there is another thing he wants before he is willing to grant the permit.

That is bribery - soliciting a bribe - and using the power of the office for personal gain, that is, abuse of office. Bribery is the specific form in which Trump abused his office. In so doing, he took parts of Ukraine hostage (withholding crucial tools for the country to defend itself), so as to exert pressure on Zelensky. That is, extortion.

If, I say, months of reporting on that case wasn't able to convince reasonable, well-informed folks, such as you, that "bribery" is what that was, and that impeachment for it is the way to go, then the effort to get that habitual criminal - with no respect whatsoever for the Constitution, the rule of law, or the mandates of basic decency - out of office, is in fact a loser.

If you still cannot really tell apart the use of aid to further U.S. interests and the use of aid for personal gain - the former being perfectly fine and publicly defensible, the latter by necessity done in secret because it is a crime - I do not know what to say. There is a reason why the White House moved at lightning speed to hide away the call transcript on a highest-security server, while Biden publicly announced, boasted even, he got a corrupt prosecutor removed by exerting pressure. It's because the latter is legitimate, and the former is criminal.

I, for one, am heartened that Pelosi has thrown her weight fully behind this, and I do hope they incorporate into the Articles of Impeachment as many of Mueller's obstruction cases as they plausibly can so as to demonstrate that Ukraine wasn't a one-off: Rather, Trump is an obsessive-compulsive criminal who surrounded himself with quite a bunch of criminals, only some of whom now live on the federal dime. As such he is a danger to the Republic. He cannot help himself, and so he has to be helped out of office. There is no other cure to that disease.

 

[Slade3200]

what Joe shot his mouth off about was perfectly legit. Just because you pretend it’s a crime doesn’t make it a crime. The CEO of Burisma is the guy who was accused of a crime. If trump wanted to root out corruption then Thay would have been a valid target. But let’s fave facts. Trump doesn’t give a shit about corruption unless he can use it for personal gain

at this point its an appearance of a crime and based on the facts it is an ethics issue

appearance of a crime?! Based on what? You can look at anything and say there’s the appearance of a crime. But if you want to accuse or investigate you need credible evidence. You don’t have that here. Sorry

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

 

[progressive hunter]

at this point its an appearance of a crime and based on the facts it is an ethics issue

appearance of a crime?! Based on what? You can look at anything and say there’s the appearance of a crime. But if you want to accuse or investigate you need credible evidence. You don’t have that here. Sorry

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

 

[Slade3200]

appearance of a crime?! Based on what? You can look at anything and say there’s the appearance of a crime. But if you want to accuse or investigate you need credible evidence. You don’t have that here. Sorry

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

I don’t ignore a thing. If you ever want to point to something specific that would be great because these generalized empty insults mean nothing. I just pointed to two specifics and you completely dodged giving a direct response. You need a mirror to look at next time you accuse someone of ignoring facts

 

[progressive hunter]

yes I do,,,

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

I don’t ignore a thing. If you ever want to point to something specific that would be great because these generalized empty insults mean nothing. I just pointed to two specifics and you completely dodged giving a direct response. You need a mirror to look at next time you accuse someone of ignoring facts

I've given you direct responses on both of them several times,,,

 

[Slade3200]

Not that you credibly prove. I’ve seen you try and you’re falling flat

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

I don’t ignore a thing. If you ever want to point to something specific that would be great because these generalized empty insults mean nothing. I just pointed to two specifics and you completely dodged giving a direct response. You need a mirror to look at next time you accuse someone of ignoring facts

I've given you direct responses on both of them several times,,,

No you didn’t. Point out the post

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm not concerned what you think since I know you are only working with partial info,,,

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

I don’t ignore a thing. If you ever want to point to something specific that would be great because these generalized empty insults mean nothing. I just pointed to two specifics and you completely dodged giving a direct response. You need a mirror to look at next time you accuse someone of ignoring facts

I've given you direct responses on both of them several times,,,

No you didn’t. Point out the post

FUCK YOU,,,i'm not your bitch,,,

now on the other hand I will educate you for a price,,,,union wages should do,,
if you want then send me your credit card number and we can move forward with your education,,,

 

[Slade3200]

Not true. I state the facts without the BS spin and presumptions. You like to present presumptions as facts and its not honest.

I’ve asked several times and you’ve failed to cite one thing that I’ve said that you think is not true. I’ve asked several times for you to show proof that there is a current DOJ investigation into the Biden’s. You’ve failed that one too.

you state the facts you know and want to see and ignore the rest because they hurt your POV,,,

I don’t ignore a thing. If you ever want to point to something specific that would be great because these generalized empty insults mean nothing. I just pointed to two specifics and you completely dodged giving a direct response. You need a mirror to look at next time you accuse someone of ignoring facts

I've given you direct responses on both of them several times,,,

No you didn’t. Point out the post

FUCK YOU,,,i'm not your bitch,,,

now on the other hand I will educate you for a price,,,,union wages should do,,
if you want then send me your credit card number and we can move forward with your education,,,

Have you been paying attention during our debates?! You are most definitely my bitch.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I am far from a Trump supporter, however I need to call out yet another misstep from the Democrats. I posted about how Obstruction was a losing argument after the Mueller Report was released and now I see them doing it again with the Bribery claim.

I get that Bribery is in the constitution so they want to draw a simple and direct line with their charges for impeachment but what Trump did and what the context of bribery in the constitution is are two different things. By their definition, politicians and all past presidents commit bribery in the course of their foreign affairs. What Trump did was an abuse of office by dealing for personal gain, that should be the focus, not bribery. What the constitution was trying to protect from was politicians being paid to make policy... of course the lines are blurred with all the lobbying that goes on in Washington, a system that I’d happily like to see reformed, but that’s another story.

Best thing for Dems to do is wrap up the hearings. Get all the facts out with as little hyperbole as possible and then not file for impeachment but rather leave it up to the voters in next years election. Trump is as swampy as they come and he cares more about the fight than the future. I think enough people see that and will vote to end the drama and embarrassment. Let’s not make a martyr out of him by driving this impeachment train off a cliff.

Today was pretty melodramatic at times. The ambassador did fine, but she didn't have much to say about the crimes. Just Trump's bad behavior which was revolting but not criminal.

What he was doing on twitter might be added to the impeachment... Trump ego is going to be what hangs his political career...

I don't think you can be impeached for being an asshole, Bruce. I thought Schiff was embarrassingly melodramatic about the whole thing, too. But since it was no doubt ego that fueled Trump's attempts to get that public statement out of Zelensky, you're probably right.
What was it they used to call it when we studied those Ancient Roman plays? The tragic flaw.

No, they can not impeach him for him being himself ( yes, a royal asshole! ) but he is not doing himself any favors with the nonsense on twitter...

At times silence speak louder than all the words he can tweet and he need to be silent during the hearings, do his damn job, and let the Democrats do what they will do but alas he is not going to!

 

[Lesh]

I get that Bribery is in the constitution so they want to draw a simple and direct line with their charges for impeachment but what Trump did and what the context of bribery in the constitution is are two different things

Au Contaire mon Frere.

What Trump did is EXACTLY bribery

Mr. Zelenensky, you can have your military aid if and only if you open a bogus investigation of my political rival and announce it on CNN

Bribery. Boom

 

[Faun]

You don't appear to be an honest American. If I'm a Commie, that makes you a Nazi.

your perceptions have failed repeatedly and this is just another case of it,,,

you being a commie has nothing to do with me,,,

Sure it does as Nazis call their political enemies, "Commies." Dates all the way back to Nazi Germany when the 2 parties constantly fought each other for power. And we saw what happened there when you fuckers won.

and americans during that same time called them both nazis and commies,,,same as today,,,

your childish game of rubber and glue show what your are,,,a child,,,

LOL

Spits a Nazi.

my god you are a fucking moron,,,

Really now. Am I supposed to care what a Nazi thinks of me??

 

[Faun]

you need to take the blinders off,,,

I'm not wearing any blinders. I'm serious, I've looked, there is nothing out there contradicting the fact that Shokin was put in charge of investigating Zlochevsky in 2014 and he not only refused to look for corruption, he flat out refused to cooperate with a U.K. investigation into Zlochevsky.

You pouting, nuh-uh, is not convincing me otherwise.

then why did joe have him fired and the new guy cleared zlochevsky of all wrong doing???

The new guy was also corrupt

I'm not sure bribery is best term for what the president did. I've read the summary of the call. Yes it sound awful from a constitutional point of view, especially when take along with the witnesses, but bribery? It sounds more like extortion to me. I sure wish the president would quit doing this stupid carp. It is kind of like baseball. Non forced errors are stupid, and make the whole team look stupid. If I was an umpire I would eject him from the game.

whats the constitutional problem you see???
it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government that interfered in our election and also a former politician that seems to have ethical if not criminal actions in his country,,

its the sworn duty of all elected officials to protect and defend this country and constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic as per their oath,,
and that is exactly what trump did and is doing,,,

"it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government"

Joe Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. Hunter Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. CrowdStrike is not a corrupt firm in Ukraine's government. The DNC servers are not corrupt systems in the Ukraine government.

Thanks for offering evidence of Trump's crimes.

 

[Slade3200]

I get that Bribery is in the constitution so they want to draw a simple and direct line with their charges for impeachment but what Trump did and what the context of bribery in the constitution is are two different things

Au Contaire mon Frere.

What Trump did is EXACTLY bribery

Mr. Zelenensky, you can have your military aid if and only if you open a bogus investigation of my political rival and announce it on CNN

Bribery. Boom

thats contingent on being able to prove that it was a bogus investigation. Otherwise it’s no different than what our government does on a regular basis with foreign aid

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm not wearing any blinders. I'm serious, I've looked, there is nothing out there contradicting the fact that Shokin was put in charge of investigating Zlochevsky in 2014 and he not only refused to look for corruption, he flat out refused to cooperate with a U.K. investigation into Zlochevsky.

You pouting, nuh-uh, is not convincing me otherwise.

then why did joe have him fired and the new guy cleared zlochevsky of all wrong doing???

The new guy was also corrupt

I'm not sure bribery is best term for what the president did. I've read the summary of the call. Yes it sound awful from a constitutional point of view, especially when take along with the witnesses, but bribery? It sounds more like extortion to me. I sure wish the president would quit doing this stupid carp. It is kind of like baseball. Non forced errors are stupid, and make the whole team look stupid. If I was an umpire I would eject him from the game.

whats the constitutional problem you see???
it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government that interfered in our election and also a former politician that seems to have ethical if not criminal actions in his country,,

its the sworn duty of all elected officials to protect and defend this country and constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic as per their oath,,
and that is exactly what trump did and is doing,,,

"it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government"

Joe Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. Hunter Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. CrowdStrike is not a corrupt firm in Ukraine's government. The DNC servers are not corrupt systems in the Ukraine government.

Thanks for offering evidence of Trump's crimes.

how do you know everything hes done there???

 

[Faun]

I am far from a Trump supporter, however I need to call out yet another misstep from the Democrats. I posted about how Obstruction was a losing argument after the Mueller Report was released and now I see them doing it again with the Bribery claim.

I get that Bribery is in the constitution so they want to draw a simple and direct line with their charges for impeachment but what Trump did and what the context of bribery in the constitution is are two different things. By their definition, politicians and all past presidents commit bribery in the course of their foreign affairs. What Trump did was an abuse of office by dealing for personal gain, that should be the focus, not bribery. What the constitution was trying to protect from was politicians being paid to make policy... of course the lines are blurred with all the lobbying that goes on in Washington, a system that I’d happily like to see reformed, but that’s another story.

Best thing for Dems to do is wrap up the hearings. Get all the facts out with as little hyperbole as possible and then not file for impeachment but rather leave it up to the voters in next years election. Trump is as swampy as they come and he cares more about the fight than the future. I think enough people see that and will vote to end the drama and embarrassment. Let’s not make a martyr out of him by driving this impeachment train off a cliff.

This is one of he most disheartening texts I have read in a long time. Sorry to say so...

Let me explain. Assume Mr. Slade applies for a building permit. The official on the other side explains, "Sure you can have your permit, and build a house for yourself and your family, desperate as you are for getting out of the shithole you are currently living in. But, first I need you to do me a favor, though. ..." The official, the sole power over the future of Mr. Slade's family's living conditions, then explains to Mr. Slade this, that, and there is another thing he wants before he is willing to grant the permit.

That is bribery - soliciting a bribe - and using the power of the office for personal gain, that is, abuse of office. Bribery is the specific form in which Trump abused his office. In so doing, he took parts of Ukraine hostage (withholding crucial tools for the country to defend itself), so as to exert pressure on Zelensky. That is, extortion.

If, I say, months of reporting on that case wasn't able to convince reasonable, well-informed folks, such as you, that "bribery" is what that was, and that impeachment for it is the way to go, then the effort to get that habitual criminal - with no respect whatsoever for the Constitution, the rule of law, or the mandates of basic decency - out of office, is in fact a loser.

If you still cannot really tell apart the use of aid to further U.S. interests and the use of aid for personal gain - the former being perfectly fine and publicly defensible, the latter by necessity done in secret because it is a crime - I do not know what to say. There is a reason why the White House moved at lightning speed to hide away the call transcript on a highest-security server, while Biden publicly announced, boasted even, he got a corrupt prosecutor removed by exerting pressure. It's because the latter is legitimate, and the former is criminal.

I, for one, am heartened that Pelosi has thrown her weight fully behind this, and I do hope they incorporate into the Articles of Impeachment as many of Mueller's obstruction cases as they plausibly can so as to demonstrate that Ukraine wasn't a one-off: Rather, Trump is an obsessive-compulsive criminal who surrounded himself with quite a bunch of criminals, only some of whom now live on the federal dime. As such he is a danger to the Republic. He cannot help himself, and so he has to be helped out of office. There is no other cure to that disease.

Excellent. But your analogy with the building official is missing another piece of this puzzle -- where the building official first explains that no one else in the world is helping Mr. Slade and that no one else can help Mr. Slade but the building official.

"Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine."​

 

[Faun]

then why did joe have him fired and the new guy cleared zlochevsky of all wrong doing???

The new guy was also corrupt

I'm not sure bribery is best term for what the president did. I've read the summary of the call. Yes it sound awful from a constitutional point of view, especially when take along with the witnesses, but bribery? It sounds more like extortion to me. I sure wish the president would quit doing this stupid carp. It is kind of like baseball. Non forced errors are stupid, and make the whole team look stupid. If I was an umpire I would eject him from the game.

whats the constitutional problem you see???
it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government that interfered in our election and also a former politician that seems to have ethical if not criminal actions in his country,,

its the sworn duty of all elected officials to protect and defend this country and constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic as per their oath,,
and that is exactly what trump did and is doing,,,

"it was one leader asking another leader to look into the corrupt people in his government"

Joe Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. Hunter Biden is not a corrupt person in Ukraine's government. CrowdStrike is not a corrupt firm in Ukraine's government. The DNC servers are not corrupt systems in the Ukraine government.

Thanks for offering evidence of Trump's crimes.

how do you know everything hes done there???

Of which "he" do you speak?