Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[JoeB131]

Check, check and check. You like most liberals just don’t know history or even what is happening in the world today. Most liberals are so obsessed with white people that they can’t imagine a world beyond Western Civilization. Brutal slave trades that trafficked millions of people have existed in African for thousands of years. You dismiss the experience of millions of people being enslaved by their neighbors, their wholesale slaughter, systematic rape and torture because in liberal land white people invented all that stuff.

Buddy, noboty cares about your Islamophobia.

Nowhere near as bad as the Transatlantic trade, even according to your own source.

 

[IM2]

My taxes will have to be raised for it, at the time or later to pay for it.

Not. One. Cent.

Blacks paid taxes for programs we were excluded from that has helped you. So you'll just have to deal with reparations.

 

[martybegan]

Blacks paid taxes for programs we were excluded from that has helped you. So you'll just have to deal with reparations.

Those people are long dead, or are nearly dead.

Sue the people that actually screwed you over, or their Estates.

 

[IM2]

Those people are long dead, or are nearly dead.

Sue the people that actually screwed you over, or their Estates.

White racism is not dead so we still see the same stuff. You benefitted from policies created during the last century, and those like you brag about how dead men created the freedom you live in today, so your argument has no merit. The government is responsible and just like we still pay Jews for a war we freed them from the Nazis, blacks are owed reparation FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY CONTINUING RACISM.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Buddy, noboty cares about your Islamophobia.

Nowhere near as bad as the Transatlantic trade, even according to your own source.

No, it was far worse. Just read the info, black slaves had so little value that they were routinely worked to death while being fed starvation rations. Even valuable hostages were inhumanely treated just like the slaves. Far more millions of black Africans were enslaved and murdered in the Trans-Saharan slave trade than were sent across the Atlantic and the vast majority of the victims of the Trans-Atlantic slave trades ended up in the Caribbean or Latin America where conditions were far worse than in the anti-bellum South. You are comparing a Western Hemisphere splinter to a North African log. You are either knowingly dishonest or a credible fool. Which is it?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Blacks paid taxes for programs we were excluded from that has helped you. So you'll just have to deal with reparations.

Until WWII few, if any, blacks ever had enough taxable income to pay taxes at all.

 

[JoeB131]

No, it was far worse.

No, it wasn't, but hey, any descendents of those people could sue the Arab governments for reparations for stuff that happened a thousand years ago.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No, it wasn't, but hey, any descendents of those people could sue the Arab governments for reparations for stuff that happened a thousand years ago.

The problem is that since the black slaves were gelded, there are no descendants to sue anybody. Even if there were, good luck suing an Islamic country in its own courts.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem is that since the black slaves were gelded, there are no descendants to sue anybody.

Oh, problem solved then.

See, the problem with American slavery is that it required systematic rape to continue to produce new slaves... which is a lot worse.

 

[el midgetron]

Buddy, noboty cares about your Islamophobia.

Nowhere near as bad as the Transatlantic trade, even according to your own source.

Yeah, and nobody cares about your anti-white bigotry and ignorance of history.

 

[el midgetron]

Oh, problem solved then.

See, the problem with American slavery is that it required systematic rape to continue to produce new slaves... which is a lot worse.

Female slaves in Africa were commonly used as sex slaves. It wasn’t just systematic, it was institutionalized within society. If a female slave didn’t just accept her role as her master‘s sexual object she would be beaten until she did. A violation of her role was a death sentence.

Male slaves were literally worth more after being castrated.

aoul du Bisson was traveling down the Red Sea when he saw the chief black eunuch of the Sharif of Mecca being brought to Constantinople for trial for impregnating a Circassian concubine of the Sharif and having sex with his entire harem of Circassian and Georgian women. The chief black eunuch was not castrated correctly so he was stillable to impregnate and the women were drowned as punishment.[49][50][a] 12 Georgian women were shipped to replace the drowned concubines.

Indian Ocean slave trade - Wikipedia

 

[martybegan]

White racism is not dead so we still see the same stuff. You benefitted from policies created during the last century, and those like you brag about how dead men created the freedom you live in today, so your argument has no merit. The government is responsible and just like we still pay Jews for a war we freed them from the Nazis, blacks are owed reparation FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY CONTINUING RACISM.

We don't pay jews anything, we support the State of Israel as a ally in the region.

Systemic and Institutional Racism are gone. You will never get rid of internal or incidental racism until you stop playing the race card all the time.

 

[Lisa558]

We don't pay jews anything, we support the State of Israel as a ally in the region.

Systemic and Institutional Racism are gone. You will never get rid of internal or incidental racism until you stop playing the race card all the time.

The other thing is that IM2 is always demanding that whites solve white racism. That would be like you or I saying, “IM2, you need to solve black antisemitism! So what are you going to do about it?!”


.

 

[martybegan]

The other thing is that IM2 is always demanding that whites solve white racism. That would be like you or I saying, “IM2, you need to solve black antisemitism! So what are you going to do about it?!”


.

He's not looking for a solution, he's looking for continual payouts.

 

[Lisa558]

He's not looking for a solution, he's looking for continual payouts.

He’s not going to see a penny. He thinks if he just DEMANDS that whites pay up that it will happen. He forgets that he needs the APPROVAL of whites for any form of reparations to pass, and whites are the largest voting bloc whether he likes it or not.

 

[martybegan]

He’s not going to see a penny. He thinks if he just DEMANDS that whites pay up that it will happen. He forgets that he needs the APPROVAL of whites for any form of reparations to pass, and whites are the largest voting bloc whether he likes it or not.

Plus, does he really think Hispanics are going to go for it?

 

[Lisa558]

Plus, does he really think Hispanics are going to go for it?

Good point.

And even 1/3 of blacks are opposed to it! They know it is unfair and will just create more racial tension.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Oh, problem solved then.

See, the problem with American slavery is that it required systematic rape to continue to produce new slaves... which is a lot worse.

What rape? I’m sure male black slaves were more than happy to have sex with female black slaves. They were human after all. I’ve rarely met a man who would turn down sex. All owners had to do was allow men and women to be in close proximity, then nature would take its course. There was no rape or forced sex involved. Throughout history, it was always harder to keep slaves from having sex than to get them to. IM2 makes a big deal out of the natural increase in slave numbers, but whites had larger families and their numbers increased far more rapidly. White families with between six and ten children were common in those days.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, and nobody cares about your anti-white bigotry and ignorance of history.

I've got a degree in history from the University of Illinois... What do you have, besides crippling racism?

Female slaves in Africa were commonly used as sex slaves. It wasn’t just systematic, it was institutionalized within society. If a female slave didn’t just accept her role as her master‘s sexual object she would be beaten until she did. A violation of her role was a death sentence.

Again, still not as bad as the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. But it also has nothing to do with why black people in this country deserve reparations.

What rape? I’m sure male black slaves were more than happy to have sex with female black slaves.

You're kidding, right? Do you ever wonder why black skin tones vary so much in this country? It's because their white masters raped their ancestors on a regular basis.

 

[MarcATL]

Here is what I found interesting in this thread...and that is what appears to be a double standard in arguement where people support or defend reparations to interred Japanese Americans but not Jim Crowe African Americans.

Claim: There were Blacks who became hugely successful by overcoming Jim Crowe so why should we give reparations?

Ans: There were Japanese-Americans who were became hugely successful, overcoming the tragedy of internment. They still received reparations.

Claim: It's unfair to give reparations to every Black person in America, after all reparations weren’t given to every Japanese American.

Ans: That is why some of us make the argument to limit eligibility to those still alive who lived under Jim Crowe.

Claim: They shouldn't get reparations if they benefitted from a free college education or other government programs.

Ans: This restriction wasn’t put on the Japanese Americans who received reparations. Why a different standard?

Claim: Not all Blacks were affected equally thus they shouldn't get reparations as a group.

Ans: This restriction wasn’t put on the Japanese Americans who received reparations.

Claim: Variations on a theme - why should my taxes pay for this since I didn’t do anything wrong.

Ans: Why didn’t that matter when we gave reparations to the Japanese Americans?

Claim: …but the Japanese Americans were put into camps.

Ans: When the government acts to remove Constitutional rights from a group based only on that groups ethnic/racial/religious/etc. identity, it is wrong and unjust, regardless of which rights are removed.


Claim: they want too much money. Grifters.
Ans: No one called the Japanese Americans grifters. They worked for decades to get reparations. The amount they got was the result of negotiations and discussions, which is overlooked now.

It also seems to me that arguing money first is a red herring. First you need to determine whether a wrong was done that needs to be acknowledged and reparations made. Only then can you argue what form those reparations need to be, imo.

So far, every argument made against reparations here, should be, but was not applied to reparations given to Japanese Americans. I know there is a handful of folks who oppose reparations in both cases and though I disagree, I respect that, it is at least internally consistent.

So why the different standards demanded of each group? I think it points out how deeply entrenched the issue of Black/White race is in this country and how complicated and personal it feels.

I still feel it’s enlightening to argue this from the opposite side (I would argue against with some one else who opposes it, arguing for). It is good for both sides of the debate. I’d be willing if anyone else is.

Check, check and check. Powerful!