Buh Bye Obamacare

[healthmyths]

It could be either. In many countries it is like police or fire, in others it is more like the mechanic. In our country it is a mix and that is why it is failing.

I do not personally believe those in our country are ready to treat it like the mechanic, if you have no money or no insurance the mechanic tells you to go away. Are the people of this country ready to have ER and hospitals do the same thing?

Forgive my suspicions, but I'm always leery about an argument that starts by redefining terms. What is it you're hoping to inject into the argument by doing so?

I mean, I ask what problems we are trying to solve with health care reform, and you dodge the question by saying we first have to redefine health care. That seems like a shell game to me.

The problems with our healthcare system all trace back to the fact we have some hybrid of commodity and service and it will never work. Try running a grocery store or the mechanic that way...some people give them money for their goods and services and some do not..how well will that work? How much more would you grocery store and mechanic have to charge you and me to make up for the people who do not pay?

I am not saying we have to redefine it, I am saying we have to define it, it has to be one or the other or, in my opinion, there is no fixing it.

So, to me the fix is to pick either healthcare is a commodity or it is a service and go forward from there.

So either way you are ok it sounds like with this MAJOR contributor to health care costs...i.e. almost $850 billion a year estimated by nearly 3,000 physicians in 2009?
And the proof is that...
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected by the 1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
BUT.....only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians."
PHYSICIAN STUDY: QUANTIFYING THE COST OF DEFENSIVE MEDICINE - Jackson Healthcare

 

[Rustic]

I'll say this again, maybe you'll eventually understand.

The DOJ said the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

The individual mandate was taken off the books LAST YEAR.

The individual mandate is NOT Obamacare.

Obamacare is not going Buh Bye.

This thread is a lie.

Just like socialism, if socialism was any good it would never have to be forced on anyone. It is always forced on people...
And once people get a taste of it they fucking hate it

Why can't you discuss what I am posting, and discuss the truth? At no point did I say anything about socialism.

Was Obamacare or the individual mandate found unconstitutional? It was the mandate... which was ALREADY gotten rid of LAST YEAR.

So what’s your point?

You guys are celebrating something that doesn't matter... because the mandate was REMOVED LAST YEAR. And you are portraying the decision as if it is ALL of Obamacare, it isn't.

Although the mandate was repealed it is not gone until 2019. You still had to have insurance this year or pay the fine on your 2019 taxes. They may be celebrating that an insurance company does not have to take you with a pre existing condition or charge the same of someone who has no pre - ex. I really don't know wtf they're celebrating

The tax is unconstitutional... No one should have to pay it

 

[Rustic]

Lol

Lol
If I did have a pre-existing condition I certainly wouldn’t expect anyone else to pay for it, I’m not a fucking coward like that

You think people shouldn't be able to buy insurance from anyone for any price? What a heartless pig.

You’re misunderstanding, people can buy whatever they want don’t give two shits but no one should be forced to buy insurance whatsoever that’s cowardly shit

Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

 

[Rustic]

The Republican's signaled what was coming when they refused to repeal the ACA. They further told you what they were doing when they did away with the mandate, that is hastening the collapse. It's all been a game folks.

And when single payer is presented by Trump all his sheep will claim it is the greatest idea ever.

Na, Single payer is unacceptable to anybody with common sense. That’s why Obama loved it

Your savior in the White House is for it, he just lied to you for a little while to get you to support him.

There would be no trump if there was no Obama… Karma is a bitch

Very true. One group had their savior in the white house who failed and now you and yours have your savior in the white house and the outcome will be the same.

Like I have said all along, the interests of rural and urban America are like night and day.
The ideals of each will never suit the other whatsoever. That’s just the facts

 

[Crepitus]

Lol

You think people shouldn't be able to buy insurance from anyone for any price? What a heartless pig.

You’re misunderstanding, people can buy whatever they want don’t give two shits but no one should be forced to buy insurance whatsoever that’s cowardly shit

Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

Lol.

 

[Rustic]

No. It was unfunded mandate. It was based the same delusional thinking that produced ACA - namely the conceit that we can implement a social safety nets without raising taxes to pay for them. People seem to think it's right and just for government to just point at businesses and demand that they solve problems for society. WTF?

True, it was an unfunded mandate, but it was still the solution that was put forth to deal with people without funds dying.

Why is that? Are there different rules for an auto parts store vs a mechanic shop? What are you referring to here?

I am referring to the difference between a grocery store and police or fire protection. One is a commodity, one is a service.

The grocery store exchanges a good for money. The police and the fire department do not ask for your credit card when they respond to a crime or a fire.

That is the difference. Right now our healthcare system is split between the rules that govern both things, and that is not sustainable.

It's the goal of ACA.

Yes it was, that is why it was such a piece of crap law. It has made things so much worse, and most people do not even see the parts that are really bad. It has driven hospitals out of business and made changes to the rest so that patient safety is now in jeopardy.

What made the law so bad as is any type of socialized medicine the government is in control of things that it should not be…

 

[Rustic]

The justice department needs rebuking by congress critters....

They have chosen not to defend a law wrtten by congress and passed by congress and signed by the president of the usa.

by them unconstitutionally.... not defending it, will change the law....the justice dept essentially is MAKING LAW by not defending the law against a suit.

that's utter bull crud!

Because the law is made by shit eating Career politicians...
It is unconstitutional

 

[Rustic]

Republicans are getting caught with their pants down

Removing healthcare without something to replace it. What are they going to tell people who lose coverage?

It doesn’t matter, people that cannot afford to pay for other people shit are no longer going to have to pay for something they cannot afford

 

[Rustic]

Obamacare essentially was something that did not benefit the people that were paying for most of it. And the government force them into it something they will never benefit from cannot afford and will never use

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, to me the fix is to pick either healthcare is a commodity or it is a service and go forward from there.

Clearly "commodity" and "service" are loaded terms. Can you be more explicit?

Yes, a commodity you only get if you have the money or means to pay for. For example if you go to your grocery store and you do not have any money they are not required by law to give you food. If you go to the mechanic and you do not have the money to pay to get your car fixed, it will not get fixed. So, a commodity is something that is paid for by the individual for the individual.

Now, a service is like the police department. If you call them and say someone is breaking into your house, they will not ask you for a credit card before they come. The same holds true for the fire department. So, a service is something that is paid for by the whole that services the individual. Roads are a good example of this, we all pay into a system that builds and maintains roads even though I will not personally drive on 75% of the roads that I help to pay for.

Right now our medical system is a mix of these two things, some pay some get the service the rest of us pay for.

For example, a woman I work with has a significant other that was diagnosed with Crohn's disease while uninsured. He spent 5 nights in the hospital getting it under control. He was unable to pay for it and now the rest of us are doing so with higher cost for the things we pay for. If healthcare were treated the same way that the mechanic, then this guy would not have gotten treated for his disease as he was unable to pay for it. Along those same lines my son was diagnosed with Type-1 diabetes 6 years ago and spent 4 days in the hospital getting it under control.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Lol

You think people shouldn't be able to buy insurance from anyone for any price? What a heartless pig.

You’re misunderstanding, people can buy whatever they want don’t give two shits but no one should be forced to buy insurance whatsoever that’s cowardly shit

Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

Only a fool does not have insurance.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And when single payer is presented by Trump all his sheep will claim it is the greatest idea ever.

Na, Single payer is unacceptable to anybody with common sense. That’s why Obama loved it

Your savior in the White House is for it, he just lied to you for a little while to get you to support him.

There would be no trump if there was no Obama… Karma is a bitch

Very true. One group had their savior in the white house who failed and now you and yours have your savior in the white house and the outcome will be the same.

Like I have said all along, the interests of rural and urban America are like night and day.
The ideals of each will never suit the other whatsoever. That’s just the facts

I do not disagree. I have argued in the past that we as a nation have outlived the "United" part and should really look to dissolve the union and create smaller nations where the people have more in common. We could have a defensive pact for the military. I see 6 or so new nations that would naturally be created based upon geographic location and common interest.

 

[Kittymom1026]

Lol

You think people shouldn't be able to buy insurance from anyone for any price? What a heartless pig.

You’re misunderstanding, people can buy whatever they want don’t give two shits but no one should be forced to buy insurance whatsoever that’s cowardly shit

Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

What will you do if you get cancer or need major surgery? I've asked you that before and you never answered.

Can't view it. Is it an autobiographical video you've posted?

 

[Kittymom1026]

Lol

You’re misunderstanding, people can buy whatever they want don’t give two shits but no one should be forced to buy insurance whatsoever that’s cowardly shit

Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

Only a fool does not have insurance.

I asked him what he would do if he ever got cancer or needed major surgery, but he's never answered.

 

[dblack]

Clearly "commodity" and "service" are loaded terms. Can you be more explicit?

Yes, a commodity you only get if you have the money or means to pay for. For example if you go to your grocery store and you do not have any money they are not required by law to give you food. If you go to the mechanic and you do not have the money to pay to get your car fixed, it will not get fixed. So, a commodity is something that is paid for by the individual for the individual.

Ok, well, I'm glad I asked, because that's nothing at all like the dictionary definition. But as long as I know what you mean, we can proceed.

Now, a service is like the police department. If you call them and say someone is breaking into your house, they will not ask you for a credit card before they come. The same holds true for the fire department. So, a service is something that is paid for by the whole that services the individual. Roads are a good example of this, we all pay into a system that builds and maintains roads even though I will not personally drive on 75% of the roads that I help to pay for.

Ok, so it sounds like the distinction you're making has nothing to do with the actual service of health care, but rather how we pay for it.

"Commodity": paid for by individuals , "Service": paid for via taxes.

I suppose I agree with your overall point. Our lack of clarity on whether paying for one's health care is an individual responsibility or a communal concern is a key problem. But I could never agree with the communal solution. There's really nothing more personal and private than one's physical health. The last thing I want is to see douchebags like Trump making health care decisions for my family.

 

[rightwinger]

Now....what do we get from Republicans now?

Everyone knows they are incapable of agreeing on a healthcare plan

Default will have to be Medicare for all

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Lol
Lol, Insurance is cowardly?

So I'm guessing you don't have anything as cowardly as a retirement plan either?

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

Only a fool does not have insurance.

I asked him what he would do if he ever got cancer or needed major surgery, but he's never answered.

I am sure he will tell us he is a self made millionaire and does not worry about such things as he has more than enough money to cover it all

 

[Kittymom1026]

Lol
I have collectible firearms and knive some of which are worth more than my house...

So that would be a "no" then?

Only a fool trusts insurance

Only a fool does not have insurance.

I asked him what he would do if he ever got cancer or needed major surgery, but he's never answered.

I am sure he will tell us he is a self made millionaire and does not worry about such things as he has more than enough money to cover it all

Well he did brag about the value of his guns and knives awhile back, so I guess he'll just have to sell those. Oh, and his house too.

 

[Anathema]

Republicans are getting caught with their pants down

Removing healthcare without something to replace it. What are they going to tell people who lose coverage?

“Get off your lazy ass and provide for yourself.” - you can quote me directly on that.

 

[Kittymom1026]

Republicans are getting caught with their pants down

Removing healthcare without something to replace it. What are they going to tell people who lose coverage?

“Get off your lazy ass and provide for yourself.” - you can quote me directly on that.

Tell that to the person lying in the hospital with terminal cancer, or the preemie baby who will spend then next few months in the NICU fighting for it's delicate life.

There are some really unfeeling pricks in this group and you are one of them.