Buh Bye Obamacare

[busybee01]

I thought it said the mandate was unConstitutional, not Obamacare... and what difference does the mandate mean now? I thought they got rid of it last year?

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

One only needs auto insurance if they own a car and drive. Otherwise nope!

The healthcare system is set up so everyone gets help no matter what. There is a public good in a mandate that overrides the Constitution.

 

[RealDave]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

 

[RealDave]

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

That headline is a lie. That bill did not actually repeal ObamaCare. If you read the bill for yourself, instead of parroting what you are told to parrot, you would know this.

Trump counts on people like you being parroting rubes who do not think for themselves. Absolutely counts on it.

You keep getting hoaxed and you STILL have not caught on.

Neither Trump nor the GOP ever intended to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Nor do they have the ability to do so.

Trump is a weak pussy who can't get the hard shit done. And the lickspittles in Congress are even weaker, spineless lackeys.

But as long as fools like you keep bleeving what you are told to bleev, they will get away with it.

I disagree,
That was one bill....I posted it to show the lefties that stuff was passed, but couldn't move in the senate.
as for congress, they are a bunch of pussies, I agree....I really hate the senate.....but it is what it is
Trump does get shit done...a ton of it.....so because you hate him doesn't mean you have to lie about it.
To say Trump didn't get stuff done is like the people who said he's a failure in life.....it's people that are just retarded...

We meant good things done. All the orange asshole has done is tear down & borrow 1/5 trillion to give himself a tax cut.

and brought in more revenue than the previous guy. jealous eh?

And yet the deficit still grew.

 

[buckeye45_73]

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

That headline is a lie. That bill did not actually repeal ObamaCare. If you read the bill for yourself, instead of parroting what you are told to parrot, you would know this.

Trump counts on people like you being parroting rubes who do not think for themselves. Absolutely counts on it.

You keep getting hoaxed and you STILL have not caught on.

Neither Trump nor the GOP ever intended to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Nor do they have the ability to do so.

Trump is a weak pussy who can't get the hard shit done. And the lickspittles in Congress are even weaker, spineless lackeys.

But as long as fools like you keep bleeving what you are told to bleev, they will get away with it.

I disagree,
That was one bill....I posted it to show the lefties that stuff was passed, but couldn't move in the senate.
as for congress, they are a bunch of pussies, I agree....I really hate the senate.....but it is what it is
Trump does get shit done...a ton of it.....so because you hate him doesn't mean you have to lie about it.
To say Trump didn't get stuff done is like the people who said he's a failure in life.....it's people that are just retarded...

We meant good things done. All the orange asshole has done is tear down & borrow 1/5 trillion to give himself a tax cut.

and brought in more revenue than the previous guy. jealous eh?

Trump has not brought in the revenue necessary to cancel out his increased spending. Our deficits have been ACCELERATING under Trump. So what the fuck is there to be jealous about?!?!

Well the tax cut will bring in more, but even in the short term..when it does lower it.....it's not about the budget....it's about my money coming into my pocket.....other

Here's the thing about an insurance mandate.

A "mandate" is simply a fine for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave. For example, if you don't buy health insurance, you have to pay more tax than someone who did buy health insurance.

That's all it is.

Well, if you don't get a mortgage, you have to pay more taxes than someone who did get a mortgage. You are punished for not buying a house! We have a mortgage mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.

If you don't have kids, you have to pay more taxes than someone who does have kids. We have a child mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.


Americans have actually demanded this kind of tax scheme for a very long time. So it was not a big leap to make you pay more taxes if you don't buy insurance.

People who think they are conservatives are actually the biggest defenders of this insanity. They mandate you pay a tax fine for not having kids or not having a mortgage.

So it is no surprise these same fake conservatives came up with the idea of taxing you more for not buying health insurance.

I agree with the tax deductions...and I want them gone. In fact I want a national sales tax with the income tax repealed
but the differences between those and the health insurance, is you have CHARGED for not having health insurance.....the others just deduct from your overall tax bill......which some people don't pay....but they do get charged for not having insurance.....not cool

 

[buckeye45_73]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

less coverage, higher premiums and a huge deductible....who cant like that????

 

[jc456]

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

One only needs auto insurance if they own a car and drive. Otherwise nope!

The healthcare system is set up so everyone gets help no matter what. There is a public good in a mandate that overrides the Constitution.

who are you that you believe you get to tell me what to do? that isn't america. you don't like how we do america, you should leave. it isn't rocket science.

 

[g5000]

Well the tax cut will bring in more, but even in the short term..when it does lower it.....it's not about the budget....it's about my money coming into my pocket.....other

The "tax cut" actually will bring in $1.5 trillion LESS. That money staying in your pocket will have to come out of your descendants' pockets, with interest added, and they will hate you for it.

 

[g5000]

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

One only needs auto insurance if they own a car and drive. Otherwise nope!

The healthcare system is set up so everyone gets help no matter what. There is a public good in a mandate that overrides the Constitution.

There is no good whatsoever in a mandate.

And thanks for revealing your contempt for our Constitution.

Not that I am surprised.

 

[jc456]

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

That headline is a lie. That bill did not actually repeal ObamaCare. If you read the bill for yourself, instead of parroting what you are told to parrot, you would know this.

Trump counts on people like you being parroting rubes who do not think for themselves. Absolutely counts on it.

You keep getting hoaxed and you STILL have not caught on.

Neither Trump nor the GOP ever intended to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Nor do they have the ability to do so.

Trump is a weak pussy who can't get the hard shit done. And the lickspittles in Congress are even weaker, spineless lackeys.

But as long as fools like you keep bleeving what you are told to bleev, they will get away with it.

I disagree,
That was one bill....I posted it to show the lefties that stuff was passed, but couldn't move in the senate.
as for congress, they are a bunch of pussies, I agree....I really hate the senate.....but it is what it is
Trump does get shit done...a ton of it.....so because you hate him doesn't mean you have to lie about it.
To say Trump didn't get stuff done is like the people who said he's a failure in life.....it's people that are just retarded...

We meant good things done. All the orange asshole has done is tear down & borrow 1/5 trillion to give himself a tax cut.

and brought in more revenue than the previous guy. jealous eh?

And yet the deficit still grew.

yep. not much one can do about that until the congress cuts spending.

 

[busybee01]

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

I find it hilarious you call the people who choose not to buy insurance "freeloaders".

The freeloaders are the high school dropouts who receive health insurance subsidies paid for by taxpayers like me for the rest of their lives.

One third of all "involutarily uninsured" people are high school dropouts, and I have to pay for their bad life choices.

You have a lot of nerve calling someone a freeloader when they will be forced to buy insurance, at much higher rates than they would have, in order to carry others on their backs.

A lot of goddam nerve.

You are the one who has the goddam nerve.

Freeloaders were people who gamed the insurance industry by committing a fraud against it and ultimately me. These were people who were perfectly capable of buying and paying the insurance premiums. Instead they left people like me holding the bag and paying. I support either a mandate or requiring a 6 month waiting period if you do not have continuous coverage.

The subsidies are one of the provisions that have the most support because people agree we should help people who need it. That being said, they also realize that Obamacare has issues and that is why they want it fixed. That is why I hope a lot of these Democrat moderates running in the House and Senate win. So we can fix Obamacare and lower the costs.

Look at the rhetoric you are using. "Gaming the system". You are parroting words given to you to parrot. You have no evidence to support this. Show me they are a net cost to taxpayers.

It's a fact that one third of the involuntarily uninsured are high school dropouts. Those are the freeloaders who taxpayers are carrying on their backs. They are costing far, far, far, far more than what your made-up "freeloaders" cost.

You are parroting the word "freeloaders". That was a left wing talking point. That word was deliberately attached to the people being forced to pay high insurance rates against their will.

It's fucking Orwellian.

The mandate is forcing people to not only buy insurance, it is forcing them to pay much higher rates in order to carry the REAL freeloaders. That's the whole reason the mandate exists! To pay for the subsidies of the real freeloaders.

So like I said. You have a lot of goddam nerve. You drank the piss.

You still have a lot of goddamned nerve you pissass.

I am a person who thinks which you are apparently not. Go read the Heritage report. It clearly states that these FREELOADERS are people who have the means to buy and pay for health insurance but refuse to do so.

The mandate exists to require people to pay into the system to keep health insurance down unlike what existed before. Subsidies are used to increase coverage so they will have the means to see a doctor sooner rather than waiting until it becomes more serious and more expensive.

 

[busybee01]

Here's the thing about an insurance mandate.

A "mandate" is simply a fine for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave. For example, if you don't buy health insurance, you have to pay more tax than someone who did buy health insurance.

That's all it is.

Well, if you don't get a mortgage, you have to pay more taxes than someone who did get a mortgage. You are punished for not buying a house! We have a mortgage mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.

If you don't have kids, you have to pay more taxes than someone who does have kids. We have a child mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.


Americans have actually demanded this kind of tax scheme for a very long time. So it was not a big leap to make you pay more taxes if you don't buy insurance.

People who think they are conservatives are actually the biggest defenders of this insanity. They mandate you pay a tax fine for not having kids or not having a mortgage.

So it is no surprise these same fake conservatives came up with the idea of taxing you more for not buying health insurance.

A mandate is used to force people into a behavior. It should be used only when there is a public good. In the case of healthcare there is a public good. People will receive healthcare and if they don't have healthcare insurance everyone who pays will pay more. The fact is that you were already paying the tax if you had insurance. That is why healthcare costs were rising before Obamacare.

Your examples have a huge flaw in them. You actually have to spend more to get the tax breaks. The tax code recognizes that there are higher costs for certain activities that are desirable and partially compensates you. Your taxes do not go up for not having a child.

 

[busybee01]

They are skyrocketing even more under Republicans. Even Tom Price who was the head of HHS under Trump says getting rid of the mandate will cause rates to go up even more.

It wasn't this way BEFORE Obamacare...now we have to fix this shit...but get no help from democrats.....who apparently love to see people suffer.


we will fix it...but we cant override a filibuster.

Republicans have made no effort to reach out to Democrats. Not even moderates like Manchin or Heitkamp. The reason is simple. Republicans have said that their plan is to repeal not replace Obamacare. That would hurt the people of West Virginia as a high percentage of the residents receive Obamacare subsidies.
That would hurt rural hospitals in North Dakota.

no democrat went for a repeal and replace. none. not even Manchin and Heitkamp. neither. so don't go there bubba.

I will go there BUBBA. They were for fix which is where the American people are. The Republican plan actually is repeal. Replace came about because the Republicans read the polls. They came up with hastily drawn plans that outsourced repeal to the states by pitting the poor against people with pre-existing conditions vs older people.

I know they were. I told you, the goal was repeal and replace. no democrat even the two you sponsored here wanted that. So they didn't wish to negotiate or anything. nope, their way or no way as always. it is the leftist loser way. you have no idea how the world works.

You have no idea how the world works. The problem is that Republicans were inflexible. They wanted repeal not replace as there was never a serious replace plan put forward. That plan would have hurt their constituents in West Virginia and North Dakota.

 

[g5000]

Here's the thing about an insurance mandate.

A "mandate" is simply a fine for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave. For example, if you don't buy health insurance, you have to pay more tax than someone who did buy health insurance.

That's all it is.

Well, if you don't get a mortgage, you have to pay more taxes than someone who did get a mortgage. You are punished for not buying a house! We have a mortgage mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.

If you don't have kids, you have to pay more taxes than someone who does have kids. We have a child mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.


Americans have actually demanded this kind of tax scheme for a very long time. So it was not a big leap to make you pay more taxes if you don't buy insurance.

People who think they are conservatives are actually the biggest defenders of this insanity. They mandate you pay a tax fine for not having kids or not having a mortgage.

So it is no surprise these same fake conservatives came up with the idea of taxing you more for not buying health insurance.

A mandate is used to force people into a behavior. It should be used only when there is a public good. In the case of healthcare there is a public good. People will receive healthcare and if they don't have healthcare insurance everyone who pays will pay more. The fact is that you were already paying the tax if you had insurance. That is why healthcare costs were rising before Obamacare.

Your examples have a huge flaw in them. You actually have to spend more to get the tax breaks. The tax code recognizes that there are higher costs for certain activities that are desirable and partially compensates you. Your taxes do not go up for not having a child.

"A mandate is used to force people into a behavior."
Exactly!



"Your examples have a huge flaw in them. You actually have to spend more to get the tax breaks."
You actually have to spend more (buy insurance) to not pay more taxes!



"Your taxes do not go up for not having a child."
You pay more taxes than the person who has a child! You pay more taxes than the person who buys health insurance!



A distinction without a difference.



That's why the insurance mandate was no big leap. We already have tax mandates. Mortgage mandate, child mandate, etc., etc., etc.

They are all examples of government forcing people into a behavior.

 

[g5000]

That headline is a lie. That bill did not actually repeal ObamaCare. If you read the bill for yourself, instead of parroting what you are told to parrot, you would know this.

Trump counts on people like you being parroting rubes who do not think for themselves. Absolutely counts on it.

You keep getting hoaxed and you STILL have not caught on.

Neither Trump nor the GOP ever intended to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Nor do they have the ability to do so.

Trump is a weak pussy who can't get the hard shit done. And the lickspittles in Congress are even weaker, spineless lackeys.

But as long as fools like you keep bleeving what you are told to bleev, they will get away with it.

I disagree,
That was one bill....I posted it to show the lefties that stuff was passed, but couldn't move in the senate.
as for congress, they are a bunch of pussies, I agree....I really hate the senate.....but it is what it is
Trump does get shit done...a ton of it.....so because you hate him doesn't mean you have to lie about it.
To say Trump didn't get stuff done is like the people who said he's a failure in life.....it's people that are just retarded...

We meant good things done. All the orange asshole has done is tear down & borrow 1/5 trillion to give himself a tax cut.

and brought in more revenue than the previous guy. jealous eh?

And yet the deficit still grew.

yep. not much one can do about that until the congress cuts spending.

Trump was pissed they didn't spend more.

 

[busybee01]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Obamacare was a partial success but it has serious problems. Premiums have skyrocketed. While Republicans are responsible for some of it, it was rising under Obama. Clearly it needs to be fixed. Most Americans are in my camp.

 

[g5000]

A tax deduction for buying something is no different than a tax fine for NOT buying something.

In either case, you are punished with more taxes than the person who behaves the way the government mandates.

 

[g5000]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Obamacare was a partial success but it has serious problems. Premiums have skyrocketed. While Republicans are responsible for some of it, it was rising under Obama. Clearly it needs to be fixed. Most Americans are in my camp.

What the pseudocons have amazingly forgotten, and have been programmed to forget, is that health care costs were rising even faster before ObamaCare.

I mean, we wouldn't even have ObamaCare if that was not the case. Duh! The whole reason we have ObamaCare was to solve the decades-old problem of skyrocketing health care costs.

That's why Trump and the Republicans won't repeal ObamaCare. Because health care costs will begin to skyrocket even faster than they are now. We will resume the days before ObamaCare. Pick up right where we left off.

The hoax would be revealed.

It amazes me every day that the pseueocons have not caught on. Their propagandists are incredibly adept at keeping them as dumbed down amnesiacs.

 

[jc456]

It wasn't this way BEFORE Obamacare...now we have to fix this shit...but get no help from democrats.....who apparently love to see people suffer.


we will fix it...but we cant override a filibuster.

Republicans have made no effort to reach out to Democrats. Not even moderates like Manchin or Heitkamp. The reason is simple. Republicans have said that their plan is to repeal not replace Obamacare. That would hurt the people of West Virginia as a high percentage of the residents receive Obamacare subsidies.
That would hurt rural hospitals in North Dakota.

no democrat went for a repeal and replace. none. not even Manchin and Heitkamp. neither. so don't go there bubba.

I will go there BUBBA. They were for fix which is where the American people are. The Republican plan actually is repeal. Replace came about because the Republicans read the polls. They came up with hastily drawn plans that outsourced repeal to the states by pitting the poor against people with pre-existing conditions vs older people.

I know they were. I told you, the goal was repeal and replace. no democrat even the two you sponsored here wanted that. So they didn't wish to negotiate or anything. nope, their way or no way as always. it is the leftist loser way. you have no idea how the world works.

You have no idea how the world works. The problem is that Republicans were inflexible. They wanted repeal not replace as there was never a serious replace plan put forward. That plan would have hurt their constituents in West Virginia and North Dakota.

so, what did I say that isn't true?

 

[jc456]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Obamacare was a partial success but it has serious problems. Premiums have skyrocketed. While Republicans are responsible for some of it, it was rising under Obama. Clearly it needs to be fixed. Most Americans are in my camp.

we knew it.

 

[g5000]

Trump will continue to sabotage ObamaCare, making it more and more dysfunctional. But he will never repeal it.

That way, he can keep blaming ObamaCare for skyrocketing health care costs and take credit for trying to do something about it at the same time, while never actually fixing anything. While actually making things even worse.

That's just how fucking stupid the rubes are. That's just how much contempt Trump has for everyone. He depends on them never catching on.