Buh Bye Obamacare

[busybee01]

And ObamaCare was the GOP plan supposedly... You dupes are unbelievable. Going back to the GOP scam plan will not be popular...

Republicans thought it up. Democrats made it happen. Who's more to blame? Does it really matter? Let's let bygones be bygones and just agree that Democrats and Republicans both suck.

Strangely GOP is always on the bad side of every issue... And have all the fake news.

Obviously we really need Democrats in control for a good long while... Investing in America after making the rich pay their fair share for God's sake, good health care daycare minimum wage vacations... ID card!! That every other modern country has. And if you didn't know it's the GOP that blocks all that... Legal pot... Good infrastructure.

We don't need any one party with control. We need a configuration that forces both parties to work together. That is why I hope that Democrats win the Arizona and Tennessee Senate seats. They are moderates who are talking about working together to fix things.

 

[busybee01]

Still uninformed

Why did Trumpcare fail? because of Democrats?

So a party that was not in power caused the other party's main campaign mission to fail?

What was some of your favorite provisions in Trumpcare that doesn't result in you saying "Trump good, Obama bad"??

Opinion | Now that Trumpcare has failed, it’s time to drop all the lies

yes it's called a filibuster...are you retarded or do you not know how the government works.

H.R.1628 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): American Health Care Act of 2017

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

House passed it...the senate couldn't, it was filibustered......ie the democrats are holding it up....

It was not filibustered. It was defeated. The fact is that Republicans were not shy about filibustering either. A DACA plan got a majority vote in the Senate of 56 votes but was defeated because it did not get 60.

 

[jc456]

No it is a word to mean they applied and had their request denied.

It is a common word, something even low IQ people like you all should know the meaning of.

I don't buy it. I've been around the block a couple times, and I've seen how these games are played. It's like the "letting them die" nonsense. It's all word games to get people emotionally involved, so they're not thinking clearly.

45 thousand died a year... And 500000 people who thought they had great health insurance went bankrupt under the old GOP scam system.Sounds great, super dupe.

You can post links on that?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

yes it's called a filibuster...are you retarded or do you not know how the government works.

H.R.1628 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): American Health Care Act of 2017

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

House passed it...the senate couldn't, it was filibustered......ie the democrats are holding it up....

5000 comments later and you still haven't told me what Trumpcare provisions would have lowered costs -- improved the quality of coverage and expanded coverage to more people...

the fact you keep deflecting from my question tells me what I already know.

Its just fun to showcase your inability to defend Trumpcare for everyone else

 

[jc456]

No it is a word to mean they applied and had their request denied.

It is a common word, something even low IQ people like you all should know the meaning of.

I don't buy it. I've been around the block a couple times, and I've seen how these games are played. It's like the "letting them die" nonsense. It's all word games to get people emotionally involved, so they're not thinking clearly.

Another good one is when they talk about "access to health care", instead of just "health care". The idea is to evoke the sense that people are being unfairly excluded from something.

It is also a fact.

What are you saying is a fact? Are you agreeing with me that the misleading demagoguery is unhelpful?

All of the demagoguery and misinformation is on your side, super duper.

In your dreams . Mess created by yours

 

[jc456]

yes it's called a filibuster...are you retarded or do you not know how the government works.

H.R.1628 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): American Health Care Act of 2017

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

House passed it...the senate couldn't, it was filibustered......ie the democrats are holding it up....

5000 comments later and you still haven't told me what Trumpcare provisions would have lowered costs -- improved the quality of coverage and expanded coverage to more people...

the fact you keep deflecting from my question tells me what I already know.

Its just fun to showcase your inability to defend Trumpcare for everyone else

It never made it to the floor because nine Democrats wouldn’t step forward. Shame

 

[jc456]

Still uninformed

Why did Trumpcare fail? because of Democrats?

So a party that was not in power caused the other party's main campaign mission to fail?

What was some of your favorite provisions in Trumpcare that doesn't result in you saying "Trump good, Obama bad"??

Opinion | Now that Trumpcare has failed, it’s time to drop all the lies

yes it's called a filibuster...are you retarded or do you not know how the government works.

H.R.1628 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): American Health Care Act of 2017

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

House passed it...the senate couldn't, it was filibustered......ie the democrats are holding it up....

It was not filibustered. It was defeated. The fact is that Republicans were not shy about filibustering either. A DACA plan got a majority vote in the Senate of 56 votes but was defeated because it did not get 60.

Why not?

 

[busybee01]

I thought it said the mandate was unConstitutional, not Obamacare... and what difference does the mandate mean now? I thought they got rid of it last year?

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

 

[jc456]

I thought it said the mandate was unConstitutional, not Obamacare... and what difference does the mandate mean now? I thought they got rid of it last year?

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

One only needs auto insurance if they own a car and drive. Otherwise nope!

 

[g5000]

House Passes Measure to Repeal and Replace the Affordable Care Act

That headline is a lie. That bill did not actually repeal ObamaCare. If you read the bill for yourself, instead of parroting what you are told to parrot, you would know this.

Trump counts on people like you being parroting rubes who do not think for themselves. Absolutely counts on it.

You keep getting hoaxed and you STILL have not caught on.

Neither Trump nor the GOP ever intended to repeal and replace ObamaCare. Nor do they have the ability to do so.

Trump is a weak pussy who can't get the hard shit done. And the lickspittles in Congress are even weaker, spineless lackeys.

But as long as fools like you keep bleeving what you are told to bleev, they will get away with it.

 

[Doc1]

No, the contention is the whole damn law is unconstitutional. It should have been sent back to congress the first time it was heard. Judicial misconduct is not justification for the DOJ to defend an unconstitutional law.


.

Who made you the final arbiter of judicial misconduct. Please tell me when you were appointed and confirmed. The law was declared constitutional by the Supreme Court so it is constitutional whether you like it or not.

You're clueless when it comes to the law and the Constitution. Only congress can allow the court to sever portions of a law from unconstitutional provisions. That authorization was not included in the ACA. That means the court allowed a law to go into effect in a form the congress never passed and the president never signed. That's as unconstitutional as it gets, the court has no legislative authority.

BTW that was the exact reasoning the court used in saying a president couldn't have a line item veto.


.

You are in no position to make that judgement. You seem to think you have some special position that allows you to make judgements. Republicans are relying on a judge to legislate from the bench. That seems okay to you.

Wow. You do realize that Roberts "legislated" from the bench, right? The Gov was arguing that it wasn't a tax, he decided it WAS a tax and thus it the mandate was "Constitutional".

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

I'm just telling you what Roberts did.

 

[busybee01]

Who made you the final arbiter of judicial misconduct. Please tell me when you were appointed and confirmed. The law was declared constitutional by the Supreme Court so it is constitutional whether you like it or not.

You're clueless when it comes to the law and the Constitution. Only congress can allow the court to sever portions of a law from unconstitutional provisions. That authorization was not included in the ACA. That means the court allowed a law to go into effect in a form the congress never passed and the president never signed. That's as unconstitutional as it gets, the court has no legislative authority.

BTW that was the exact reasoning the court used in saying a president couldn't have a line item veto.


.

You are in no position to make that judgement. You seem to think you have some special position that allows you to make judgements. Republicans are relying on a judge to legislate from the bench. That seems okay to you.

Wow. You do realize that Roberts "legislated" from the bench, right? The Gov was arguing that it wasn't a tax, he decided it WAS a tax and thus it the mandate was "Constitutional".

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

Sure it was . Figures you don’t see that.

'An individual mandate to purchase healthcare was initially proposed by the politically conservative Heritage Foundation in 1989 as an alternative to single-payer health care.[13][14][15][16][17] Stuart Butler, an early supporter of the individual mandate at the Heritage Foundation, wrote:

If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate, but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance.[18]

The Heritage Foundation changed its position in 2011, calling the individual mandate unconstitutional.[19]

From its inception, the idea of an individual mandate was championed by Republican politicians as a free-market approach to health care reform.[18][20] Supporters included Charles Grassley, Mitt Romney, and the late John Chafee.[21] The individual mandate was felt to resonate with conservative principles of individual responsibility, and conservative groups recognized that the healthcare market was unique.'

Health insurance mandate - Wikipedia

It figures because I don't like people who commit a fraud against me that I have to pay for. You apparently have no conscience.

 

[g5000]

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

I find it hilarious you call the people who choose not to buy insurance "freeloaders".

The freeloaders are the high school dropouts who receive health insurance subsidies paid for by taxpayers like me for the rest of their lives.

One third of all "involutarily uninsured" people are high school dropouts, and I have to pay for their bad life choices.

You have a lot of nerve calling someone a freeloader when they will be forced to buy insurance, at much higher rates than they would have, in order to carry others on their backs.

A lot of goddam nerve.

 

[busybee01]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

It was not a gigantic failure. It partially succeeded as the number of people who have insurance have increased. People recognize this and do support it against the Republican plan to drop dead. They recognize the shortcomings and want it fixed not repealed.

 

[busybee01]

Obama said he would not raise taxes on the Middle Class as he presented Obamacare as something other than a tax.

However, when it got to SCOTUS they said it had to be a tax to be somewhat Constitutional, so they said it was one even though it was presented as something other than a tax.

Now that the GOP ended the mandate it can no loner be a tax, so away it goes.

Obamacare ended up being the largest tax on the Middle class in US history.

Now Dims will have to sell the Single payer system to the country, probably as anything but a tax, once more.

The ACA was funded without taxing the Middle Class.

Where is Trump's plan? over 500 days & he hasx presented nothing to replace the ACA.

Uh, yes it was, perm,iums and deductibles skyrocketed under Obama care. I not only saw the news reports, I saw my own premiums and deductibles go way up.....fuck Obamacare

They are skyrocketing even more under Republicans. Even Tom Price who was the head of HHS under Trump says getting rid of the mandate will cause rates to go up even more.

It wasn't this way BEFORE Obamacare...now we have to fix this shit...but get no help from democrats.....who apparently love to see people suffer.


we will fix it...but we cant override a filibuster.

Republicans have made no effort to reach out to Democrats. Not even moderates like Manchin or Heitkamp. The reason is simple. Republicans have said that their plan is to repeal not replace Obamacare. That would hurt the people of West Virginia as a high percentage of the residents receive Obamacare subsidies.
That would hurt rural hospitals in North Dakota.

 

[Doc1]

You're clueless when it comes to the law and the Constitution. Only congress can allow the court to sever portions of a law from unconstitutional provisions. That authorization was not included in the ACA. That means the court allowed a law to go into effect in a form the congress never passed and the president never signed. That's as unconstitutional as it gets, the court has no legislative authority.

BTW that was the exact reasoning the court used in saying a president couldn't have a line item veto.


.

You are in no position to make that judgement. You seem to think you have some special position that allows you to make judgements. Republicans are relying on a judge to legislate from the bench. That seems okay to you.

Wow. You do realize that Roberts "legislated" from the bench, right? The Gov was arguing that it wasn't a tax, he decided it WAS a tax and thus it the mandate was "Constitutional".

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

Sure it was . Figures you don’t see that.

'An individual mandate to purchase healthcare was initially proposed by the politically conservative Heritage Foundation in 1989 as an alternative to single-payer health care.[13][14][15][16][17] Stuart Butler, an early supporter of the individual mandate at the Heritage Foundation, wrote:

If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate, but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance.[18]

The Heritage Foundation changed its position in 2011, calling the individual mandate unconstitutional.[19]

From its inception, the idea of an individual mandate was championed by Republican politicians as a free-market approach to health care reform.[18][20] Supporters included Charles Grassley, Mitt Romney, and the late John Chafee.[21] The individual mandate was felt to resonate with conservative principles of individual responsibility, and conservative groups recognized that the healthcare market was unique.'

Health insurance mandate - Wikipedia

It figures because I don't like people who commit a fraud against me that I have to pay for. You apparently have no conscience.

You apparently cannot stand to be corrected. Roberts labeled it a tax and cast the deciding vote. It has nothing to do with me. It simply is what it is. Now.....if you need to yell at someone yell at Roberts.

 

[buckeye45_73]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

It was not a gigantic failure. It partially succeeded as the number of people who have insurance have increased. People recognize this and do support it against the Republican plan to drop dead. They recognize the shortcomings and want it fixed not repealed.

I was, it makes insurance usless with $4000 deductibles.......we used to have low ($500) deductible plans, they are very rare now. And premiums went up enormously.....yes you did cover more people, but you made it much more expensive for everyone else.......

 

[busybee01]

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

I find it hilarious you call the people who choose not to buy insurance "freeloaders".

The freeloaders are the high school dropouts who receive health insurance subsidies paid for by taxpayers like me for the rest of their lives.

One third of all "involutarily uninsured" people are high school dropouts, and I have to pay for their bad life choices.

You have a lot of nerve calling someone a freeloader when they will be forced to buy insurance, at much higher rates than they would have, in order to carry others on their backs.

A lot of goddam nerve.

You are the one who has the goddam nerve.

Freeloaders were people who gamed the insurance industry by committing a fraud against it and ultimately me. These were people who were perfectly capable of buying and paying the insurance premiums. Instead they left people like me holding the bag and paying. I support either a mandate or requiring a 6 month waiting period if you do not have continuous coverage.

The subsidies are one of the provisions that have the most support because people agree we should help people who need it. That being said, they also realize that Obamacare has issues and that is why they want it fixed. That is why I hope a lot of these Democrat moderates running in the House and Senate win. So we can fix Obamacare and lower the costs.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I thought it said the mandate was unConstitutional, not Obamacare... and what difference does the mandate mean now? I thought they got rid of it last year?

Healthcare is not a right so Obamacare is unconstitutional

There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it so it is constitutional.

You can not force people to buy something...that is unconstitutional

Every knows this, so while Obama said it was not a tax...the Supreme Court said it was in order to avoid striking it down....

Unless there is a compelling public reason for doing so. That is why government can compel people to buy auto insurance. The compelling public reason in this case is preventing freeloaders from using toe insurance system for fraud against honest ratepayers.

you only buy auto insurance if you own a car.....
you can avoid buying it.......

 

[Doc1]

I don't agree that the mandate was unconstitutional whether it was a tax or not. The mandate had a reason for being and it was to prevent freeloaders from gaming the system. They refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and then buy insurance when they are sick then drop it when they are healthy. They commit a fraud on the system. The mandate was created by a conservative Heritage Foundation to lower insurance costs.

I find it hilarious you call the people who choose not to buy insurance "freeloaders".

The freeloaders are the high school dropouts who receive health insurance subsidies paid for by taxpayers like me for the rest of their lives.

One third of all "involutarily uninsured" people are high school dropouts, and I have to pay for their bad life choices.

You have a lot of nerve calling someone a freeloader when they will be forced to buy insurance, at much higher rates than they would have, in order to carry others on their backs.

A lot of goddam nerve.

You are the one who has the goddam nerve.

Freeloaders were people who gamed the insurance industry by committing a fraud against it and ultimately me. These were people who were perfectly capable of buying and paying the insurance premiums. Instead they left people like me holding the bag and paying. I support either a mandate or requiring a 6 month waiting period if you do not have continuous coverage.

The subsidies are one of the provisions that have the most support because people agree we should help people who need it. That being said, they also realize that Obamacare has issues and that is why they want it fixed. That is why I hope a lot of these Democrat moderates running in the House and Senate win. So we can fix Obamacare and lower the costs.

You do realize that the window for buying insurance is very small, right? If you get sick in Feb you can't buy any until October....you did know that right?