Bullet size the next line of attack on the 2nd Amendment..

[grainbely]

Rifle rounds are designed to tumble and do maximum damage going sideways through the target. They are right to draw attention to it when the weapons and rounds are designed for military applications but are being marketed and sold to civilians.

Lol
Bullshit... They are designed to expand or not expand you dumbass motherfucker.
So shut the fuck up

Yeah, and what the Left gun grabbers fail to understand is military rounds have been designed since forever modernity to kill more humanely, not necessarily more effectively. Case in point: as a young, inexperienced hunter I once shot a whitetail with a 7.92x57mm FMJ. The first shot knocked the deer flat on its side, but exited cleanly with a small exit wound diameter. I had to finish it off point blank with a second round. Soft core, hollow point, soft nose--now they're your faster, messier quick stop, quick kill bullets whose lethality and internal organ damage potential arise from expansion of original diameter, fragmentation and large exit wound size. Smaller, hyper velocity rounds kill by playing pinball inside body cavities or exiting with such velocity, they liquefy internal organs and propel them as mist out of the body.

Indeed....

Not a single progressive in here has probably ever heard of a .17HMR. Jesus Mother of God what that little fucking varmint killer does when it enters a human body! Little ittyy bitty tiny little bullet.....the gun grabber k00ks would deem near harmless!! Yuk....yuk!

St00pid cocksukers!

It's sad you guys aren't self regulating. You'd do a much better job than people that don't own guns. Very sad. Instead you'd prefer lunatics easily get guns because of false propaganda about how the left wants to take all your guns. Very very sad.

But the false propagandists are winning huge s0n....very few Americans concur with your type....sorry but that's the way it is. The gun grabber nutters have only banners and billboards to hang their hats on. Maybe an occasional march or two that is in the news for 48 hours! Most people dont see it as a gun problem s0n..... nobody is on the phone this week with their representative demanding action!. Just gonna have to suck it up and find a new hobby!

No. The vast majority of the population agrees with me on certain policy changes. Gun grabber is a propaganda term burned into your brain. There aren't actually many people that want to ban all guns or even most. We are concerned with the point of sale, trafficking across states, training for concealed and open carry, enforcement, types of weapons continuing to be marketed. We don't buy that its self defense when you guys call them toys and drool of the max damage products. In some rare cases they should be taken away and they are after a lengthy and deliberate process. I'd say it could go further. They say that half of murdered women are killed by their partner. In extreme domestic violence cases they should be able to remove the violent party's weapons temporarily to allow for due process and legal action to progress. A lot of these are concerns that the gun club completely ignores and denies. Hence why I say you guys need to be responsible for your toys and self regulate. Not just the ones you own but the industry that you and the NRA are letting run away rampantly.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
Bullshit... They are designed to expand or not expand you dumbass motherfucker.
So shut the fuck up

Yeah, and what the Left gun grabbers fail to understand is military rounds have been designed since forever modernity to kill more humanely, not necessarily more effectively. Case in point: as a young, inexperienced hunter I once shot a whitetail with a 7.92x57mm FMJ. The first shot knocked the deer flat on its side, but exited cleanly with a small exit wound diameter. I had to finish it off point blank with a second round. Soft core, hollow point, soft nose--now they're your faster, messier quick stop, quick kill bullets whose lethality and internal organ damage potential arise from expansion of original diameter, fragmentation and large exit wound size. Smaller, hyper velocity rounds kill by playing pinball inside body cavities or exiting with such velocity, they liquefy internal organs and propel them as mist out of the body.

Indeed....

Not a single progressive in here has probably ever heard of a .17HMR. Jesus Mother of God what that little fucking varmint killer does when it enters a human body! Little ittyy bitty tiny little bullet.....the gun grabber k00ks would deem near harmless!! Yuk....yuk!

St00pid cocksukers!

It's sad you guys aren't self regulating. You'd do a much better job than people that don't own guns. Very sad. Instead you'd prefer lunatics easily get guns because of false propaganda about how the left wants to take all your guns. Very very sad.

But the false propagandists are winning huge s0n....very few Americans concur with your type....sorry but that's the way it is. The gun grabber nutters have only banners and billboards to hang their hats on. Maybe an occasional march or two that is in the news for 48 hours! Most people dont see it as a gun problem s0n..... nobody is on the phone this week with their representative demanding action!. Just gonna have to suck it up and find a new hobby!

No. The vast majority of the population agrees with me on certain policy changes. Gun grabber is a propaganda term burned into your brain. There aren't actually many people that want to ban all guns or even most. We are concerned with the point of sale, trafficking across states, training for concealed and open carry, enforcement, types of weapons continuing to be marketed. We don't buy that its self defense when you guys call them toys and drool of the max damage products. In some rare cases they should be taken away and they are after a lengthy and deliberate process. I'd say it could go further. They say that half of murdered women are killed by their partner. In extreme domestic violence cases they should be able to remove the violent party's weapons temporarily to allow for due process and legal action to progress. A lot of these are concerns that the gun club completely ignores and denies. Hence why I say you guys need to be responsible for your toys and self regulate. Not just the ones you own but the industry that you and the NRA are letting run away rampantly.

Lol
You sound like a fucking pussy whipped bitch... Someone’s firearm ownership is none of your fucking business so shut the fuck up

 

[westwall]

There are some bullet designs that may be more prone to tumble than others in both handguns and rifles...but rifle rounds generally are NOT designed to tumble...that is a Vietnam Era urban legend...a myth. Debunked many times.

Liquify organs?!?! Do some actual research...don't believe everything you read on the anti-gun websites.

And don't feel like you're under attack for believing the tumbling bullet myth...I fell for it too once upon a time...that's how I learned it was a myth.

Its hyperbole. You should love it like you do trumps dk in your mouth. The shockwave ruins flesh farther away from the bullet hole.

The shockwave doesn't do anything except look good in slow motion video. The level of ignorance that you people demonstrate on this subject is amazing.

The shockwave can kill people in explosions. It's not trivial. The impact of an expanding or tumbling bullet in flesh sends similar but scaled down shockwave that's designed to do more damage. I don't have time now but I may do your part of reasonable non biased investigation since you refuse to do so, and provide some sources.

All of you..quit being such biased pos. On your own you need to look from all angles not just assume you're right and ignore all opposing perspectives. It's called being an informed and responsible adult in this country. If the NRA provides zero info outside of its agenda then you need to look for it. If you don't its like selection bias and your perspective cannot be the truth even if it contains some facts.

Bullets don't explode unless they have HIGH EXPLOSIVE in them. Like I said, you have no clue what you're babbling about. Now if you're talking about a 105mm howitzer shell, yes, they have a couple of POUNDS of explosive in them so yes, the shockwave from that explosion can indeed kill people who are a few meters away from the point of detonation. But we're not... We are talking about a solid projectile weighing less than half an ounce in the case of everything under .50 cal Browning.

A tumbling bullet does indeed cause a shockwave to propagate through the body......and they do nothing but look pretty in slo mo video. I suggest you actually do some research on the subject. The Journal of Trauma would be a good start. In their well documented research you will see that shockwaves do nothing at all. The only thing that does real damage is the "permanent wound channel" The "temporary wound channel" (that's what that shockwave creates) does nothing.

But I have actually studied the subject. And you haven't. That is my bias. Actual REAL science and scientific papers that doctors use to treat the victims of gun shot wounds.

You have hyperbole and horse poo on your side funded by bloomberg and his anti gun agenda.

The AnarchAngel : Terminal Tumbling

Here you go. Eat crow. The author doesnt admit that rotating end over end once or twice is tumbling but that's exactly what it is. A bullet moving side ways through the body leaves a bigger wound and will make it meander a bit and do other stuff like break into smaller more damaging pieces. That's what happened to Scalise at the softball shooting. He caught a round in the leg and it tumbled up through his hip bone side ways if I remember correctly. They are designed/selected for this trait just like I said and it causes more damage just like I said. Why anyone who actually shoots would try to say otherwise is pure stupidity. It takes 15 minutes of googling to find all of this out yet you think you can deny it and people are going to just believe your nonsense. Well we aren't all trumpet dolts.

The shockwave part....I used the wrong term but it's the same general concept. The transfer of energy passes through different materials causing damage. The higher velocity round the bigger the cavitation on average. When the round enters it quickly transfers force to the flesh which is much more elastic. The flesh balloons and will cause a shit ton of damage from a high powered rifle. It can only stretch so far without tearing apart. In some circumstance the cavitation causes more damage than the bullet hole.

There yah go bud. Enjoy being wrong about your stupid toys. Better yet, read and understand all perspectives first, assert conclusion last if at all.

Do you understand English? Me thinks not..

From your link...

"Unfortunately, at velocities below 2500fps, both bullets will either tend to break up before achieving significant penetration; or they will tend to simply pass straight through a human body (at least a thin one anyway, and most of our enemies aren't exactly overfed), leaving a very small wound channel, and creating little shock; unless they directly hit a major organ, blood vessel, or bone. If they don't disintegrate, the bullets will generally still pass end over end once, or even twice; but will not break up, and will usually exit the body base first.

With the standard 20" M16A1-A3 barrel, this isn't really a problem, because the 55gr and 62gr nato loads will maintain 2500fps out to around 200m, but every inch you cut off the barrel length cuts something like 25m off the effective range of the loading.

The M4 carbine has either an 11.5" or 14.5" barrel (depending on what generation M4 it is. Most issued today have 14.5" barrels). A 14.5" barrel will produce between 200fps and 400fps less muzzle velocity (yes, it really is that variable depending on loading) than a 20" barrel; which translates into a HUGE difference in downrange performance. The range at which the 62gr load will reliably stay above 2500fps from the 11.5" barrel, is about 80m; from the 14.5" barrel it's about 125m.

Now, with good shot placement, those through and through wounds will probably kill your target just as dead; but they'll do it a lot slower, and they won't necessarily slow them down all that much in the mean time. The disintegrated bullets wounds CAN be very nasty and immediately disabling, but if they didn't penetrate far enough, or they penetrated in a poor location, they aren't consistent either."

 

[JoeB131]

Acceptable risk to be American

Embrace

I didn't accept that risk. And if you put it to a vote, we'd have much tighter gun laws than we have now.

The thing is, most Americans don't realize just how lax the gun laws are. They just scratch their heads whenever we have a mass shooting and ask, "How did that crazy person get a gun?" and then don't wait around for an answer.

 

[westwall]

Acceptable risk to be American

Embrace

I didn't accept that risk. And if you put it to a vote, we'd have much tighter gun laws than we have now.

The thing is, most Americans don't realize just how lax the gun laws are. They just scratch their heads whenever we have a mass shooting and ask, "How did that crazy person get a gun?" and then don't wait around for an answer.

Easy. Move to the country of your choice. This one has a COTUS that you disagree with. So leave. We will do fine without you.

 

[JoeB131]

Easy. Move to the country of your choice. This one has a COTUS that you disagree with. So leave. We will do fine without you.

Again, DD214..... I've done more than you have. thanks.

 

[westwall]

Easy. Move to the country of your choice. This one has a COTUS that you disagree with. So leave. We will do fine without you.

Again, DD214..... I've done more than you have. thanks.

And, if you want to alter the COTUS from the Founders intent, you are a "enemy, foreign, and domestic".

 

[JoeB131]

And, if you want to alter the COTUS from the Founders intent, you are a "enemy, foreign, and domestic".

Um... okay. Let's look at that.

Constitution has been altered 17 times beyond the Bill of Rights... were all those congressmen, presidents, governors, state legislators "enemies", or were they just guys who said, "Wow, this isn't working... we'd better try something else>"

Also, since the Founders couldn't have conceived of a weapon like an AR-15 with a bump stock, I'm not sure why their "original intent" even applied here.

The 1776 School Shooting would have been one guy with a musket, who gets off one shot and while he's taking a minute to reload, everyone is out of that school running for the fields. That's clearly not the case today.

Now, i'm really trying to be polite and talk to you logically here, but you are mostly acting emotionally... so we can leave it at that.

 

[westwall]

And, if you want to alter the COTUS from the Founders intent, you are a "enemy, foreign, and domestic".

Um... okay. Let's look at that.

Constitution has been altered 17 times beyond the Bill of Rights... were all those congressmen, presidents, governors, state legislators "enemies", or were they just guys who said, "Wow, this isn't working... we'd better try something else>"

Also, since the Founders couldn't have conceived of a weapon like an AR-15 with a bump stock, I'm not sure why their "original intent" even applied here.

The 1776 School Shooting would have been one guy with a musket, who gets off one shot and while he's taking a minute to reload, everyone is out of that school running for the fields. That's clearly not the case today.

Now, i'm really trying to be polite and talk to you logically here, but you are mostly acting emotionally... so we can leave it at that.

And not one of those alterations affected the Bill of Rights in any meaningful way. In fact the majority have merely granted the Rights found under the Bill Of Rights to people of color other than white.

 

[JoeB131]

And not one of those alterations affected the Bill of Rights in any meaningful way. In fact the majority have merely granted the Rights found under the Bill Of Rights to people of color other than white.

which isn't the point you stated.

You stated that anyone who didn't respect the intent of the Founding Slave Rapists was an enemy of the people...

Even though the Founding Slave Rapists wanted the power to only be held by white, land-owning males and no one else. You think they wanted their slaves running around with guns?

So I'm less concerned about what the Founding Slave Rapists wanted or intended, and what works well now.

33,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses related to gun violence.
Active Shooter drills and metal detectors becoming a part of our everyday lives...

Do you think this is what the Founders were talking about?

 

[Synthaholic]

preventing ammunition

Don’t be silly. Just heavily regulated.

"INFRINGEMENT"

Don't be stupid.

Again - bullets aren't in the Constitution.

 

[westwall]

preventing ammunition

Don’t be silly. Just heavily regulated.

"INFRINGEMENT"

Don't be stupid.

Again - bullets aren't in the Constitution.

Sure they are, "shall not be infringed". That covers bullets, powder, primers, and any other device, part, or ephemera that is required to keep a citizens weapon in good working order.

 

[JoeB131]

Sure they are, "shall not be infringed". That covers bullets, powder, primers, and any other device, part, or ephemera that is required to keep a citizens weapon in good working order.

It also says, "Well Regulated Militia", and regulating bullet size and type would fall under the heading of "regulation".

 

[westwall]

Sure they are, "shall not be infringed". That covers bullets, powder, primers, and any other device, part, or ephemera that is required to keep a citizens weapon in good working order.

It also says, "Well Regulated Militia", and regulating bullet size and type would fall under the heading of "regulation".

At the time that the 2nd was written, the term "Well Regulated" meant, IN GOOD WORKING ORDER. Which is why you see the term on the backs of clocks. So, tell the class why there would need to be legal controls on clocks.........

 

[JoeB131]

At the time that the 2nd was written, the term "Well Regulated" meant, IN GOOD WORKING ORDER. Which is why you see the term on the backs of clocks. So, tell the class why there would need to be legal controls on clocks.........

That's one interpretation... but kind of a stretch.

Well-regulated meant exactly that. Well trained, with a definite command structure, rules, discipline, etc. It does NOT mean a bunch of crazy people stocking up arms like the Zombies are about to show up.

 

[August West]

preventing ammunition

Don’t be silly. Just heavily regulated.

"INFRINGEMENT"

Don't be stupid.

Again - bullets aren't in the Constitution.

Sure they are, "shall not be infringed". That covers bullets, powder, primers, and any other device, part, or ephemera that is required to keep a citizens weapon in good working order.

Try to get through the metal detector the next time you go to a baseball or football game or countless other places that care about the security of their patrons with your gun and when you`re stopped you can give your infringement speech to the officer who disarms you. I`m sure they enjoy a good laugh now and then.

 

[westwall]

preventing ammunition

Don’t be silly. Just heavily regulated.

"INFRINGEMENT"

Don't be stupid.

Again - bullets aren't in the Constitution.

Sure they are, "shall not be infringed". That covers bullets, powder, primers, and any other device, part, or ephemera that is required to keep a citizens weapon in good working order.

Try to get through the metal detector the next time you go to a baseball or football game or countless other places that care about the security of their patrons with your gun and when you`re stopped you can give your infringement speech to the officer who disarms you. I`m sure they enjoy a good laugh now and then.

Private property is not bound by the 2nd Amendment. I don't have the Right to violate YOUR private property Rights. If I choose to enter into a private venue for a performance i must follow their rules. Or, if I decide I don't wish to be disarmed, i simply don't go.

 

[JoeB131]

Private property is not bound by the 2nd Amendment. I don't have the Right to violate YOUR private property Rights. If I choose to enter into a private venue for a performance i must follow their rules. Or, if I decide I don't wish to be disarmed, i simply don't go.

Except public venues have the same rules..... Come on, guy, either a gun is your God-given right or it isn't.

 

[westwall]

Private property is not bound by the 2nd Amendment. I don't have the Right to violate YOUR private property Rights. If I choose to enter into a private venue for a performance i must follow their rules. Or, if I decide I don't wish to be disarmed, i simply don't go.

Except public venues have the same rules..... Come on, guy, either a gun is your God-given right or it isn't.

Don't be stupid....oh wait, it's you. Here, I'll make it simple for you, the government gets to make rules for its locations. Thus it is illegal for me to carry concealed in various government buildings. However, in those buildings where that is the rule, they also provide armed security, thus my Right of self defense is not in danger. Private Property owners likewise have the power to determine whether people may carry on THEIR property.

I don't know how much more simple i could make it for you, but that is about as basic as it gets.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Are you dancing in the streets yet?

Naw, with all the mass shootings we have, I'd get tired of dancing pretty quickly...

Just like I'm kind of tired of mass shootings.

I am getting tired of assholes trying to take away my Constitutional rights.

Why do Liberals always have to be assholes on every issue?

If you assholes were really concerned about shootings you would be deploring the Black on Black shootings that comprise most of the gun crime in the US.

Of course this gets explained to you in every one of these threads but you ignore it because your agenda is really not to stop gun killings. Your agenda is to take firearms away from White Conservative gun owners because they are the biggest threat to making America the socialist shithole that you desire so much.

Joey is not a liberal. Joey is a STALINIST.