California Gov ok's Assisted Suicide

[Rustic]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

 

[pwjohn]

Well there you go. Now its your turn, Blackrook. Show us the proof for all the death camps, forced suicides of mentally disabled kids and mass killings that spawned from Oregon's assisted suicide laws.

I looked up the actual facts about the assisted suicide laws in my state and wasn't surprised by what I found:

Physician-Assisted Suicide Program Rarely Used, Study Finds - US News

I found these facts about the Oregon law. Only about 750 people have died from physician assisted suicide as of October 2014. It's the most recent figures I could find.

Oregon Shows That Assisted Suicide Can Work Sensibly and Fairly - NYTimes.com

What we're seeing in this thread is a bunch of busybodies possessing the mistaken belief that it's their job to police every man, women & child in the country. They are wrong of course, and it was wrong for moonbeam to think it his job to stand in the way of assisted suicide, for so many years. He finally wiser up. And that's a good thing.

Its an emotional issue dealing with some of the most profound moral issues there are. I can wrap my head around Brown's reluctance. I'm also glad he finally recognized the need for this particular law.

Oh I get the emotional part. I've witnessed more then a few people suffer horribly from cancer before finally, and thankfully, dying. After that comes the mandatory beating yourself up for even thinking like that. I more then get the emotional part.
The agony they were forced to endure, long after morphine was of no help, before finally passing, should be against the law.

I agree. And eventually so did Brown. There are a lot of 'moral' positions that are just political grandstanding. This one doesn't appear to be. It looks like a fair amount of soul searching on Brown's part. I can understand it. Its a heavy issue.

Yes it was a good thing when Brown finally chose to step aside. I hope to see more of that in all the rest of the states, in the very near future. That too will be a good thing.

 

[Skylar]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.
The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Nope. The law's fine. Its your understanding of its that is poor. Here's the relevant portion of the law:

This bill would make it a felony to knowingly alter or forge a request for drugs to end an individual’s life without his or her authorization or to conceal or destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request for a drug, if it is done with the intent or effect of causing the individual’s death. The bill would make it a felony to knowingly coerce or exert undue influence on an individual to request a drug for the purpose of ending his or her life or to destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request. By creating a new crime, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program. The bill would provide that nothing in its provisions is to be construed to authorize ending a patient’s life by lethal injection, mercy killing, or active euthanasia, and would provide that action taken in accordance with the act shall not constitute, among other things, suicide or homicide.

Bill Text - SB-128 End of life.

Show us the part where the doctor would be charged with a felony if a person who backed out of a suicide lived longer than 6 months. Or from any portion of the law.

You'll find you're quoting your imagination. Which is, of course, your only source.

 

[Skylar]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

And the beauty of this bill is that it totally accommodates your world view. If you don't believe in suicide, you don't have to engage in it.

 

[Katzndogz]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.
The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Nope. The law's fine. Its your understanding of its that is poor. Here's the relevant portion of the law:

This bill would make it a felony to knowingly alter or forge a request for drugs to end an individual’s life without his or her authorization or to conceal or destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request for a drug, if it is done with the intent or effect of causing the individual’s death. The bill would make it a felony to knowingly coerce or exert undue influence on an individual to request a drug for the purpose of ending his or her life or to destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request. By creating a new crime, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program. The bill would provide that nothing in its provisions is to be construed to authorize ending a patient’s life by lethal injection, mercy killing, or active euthanasia, and would provide that action taken in accordance with the act shall not constitute, among other things, suicide or homicide.

Bill Text - SB-128 End of life.

Show us the part where the doctor would be charged with a felony if a person who backed out of a suicide lived longer than 6 months. Or from any portion of the law.

You'll find you're quoting your imagination. Which is, of course, your only source.

California legislature passes physician assisted suicide

 

[pwjohn]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.

The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Why are you so desperate to imprison our doctors. You've said the same thing on more then one issue. You in fact make yourself look like a jackass, and leaves me wondering if you're just a another poser?

 

[Skylar]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.
The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Nope. The law's fine. Its your understanding of its that is poor. Here's the relevant portion of the law:

This bill would make it a felony to knowingly alter or forge a request for drugs to end an individual’s life without his or her authorization or to conceal or destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request for a drug, if it is done with the intent or effect of causing the individual’s death. The bill would make it a felony to knowingly coerce or exert undue influence on an individual to request a drug for the purpose of ending his or her life or to destroy a withdrawal or rescission of a request. By creating a new crime, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program. The bill would provide that nothing in its provisions is to be construed to authorize ending a patient’s life by lethal injection, mercy killing, or active euthanasia, and would provide that action taken in accordance with the act shall not constitute, among other things, suicide or homicide.

Bill Text - SB-128 End of life.

Show us the part where the doctor would be charged with a felony if a person who backed out of a suicide lived longer than 6 months. Or from any portion of the law.

You'll find you're quoting your imagination. Which is, of course, your only source.

California legislature passes physician assisted suicide

And feel free to quote the portion of the law where a physician could be charged with a felony if a patient who backed out a suicide lived longer than 6 months.

Here it is again:

Bill Text - SB-128 End of life.

Show us. Don't tell us.

So far the only thing you're 'showing us' is that you've never read the law and are merely reciting what you were told to think.

 

[Katzndogz]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

And the beauty of this bill is that it totally accommodates your world view. If you don't believe in suicide, you don't have to engage in it.

That's the same way it worked in the Netherlands. For awhile anyway.

 

[Skylar]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

And the beauty of this bill is that it totally accommodates your world view. If you don't believe in suicide, you don't have to engage in it.

That's the same way it worked in the Netherlands. For awhile anyway.

And as you already know, the Netherlands law looks nothing like the California law.

As the standard in the Netherlands is merely 'unbearable suffering'. While the law in California is terminal illness, 3 requests to your doctor (two oral, one written), less than 6 months to live, being of sound mind, and administering the medication yourself.

All of which you know. But really hope we don't.

 

[EverCurious]

I consider it a matter of dignity personally. Alzheimer's runs in my family and I refuse to die remembering nothing and pissing myself as my poor grandmother was forced to do. I should prefer to die with dignity via a less painful method, but absent a doctors assistance I assure you I will find a way to end the suffering of my family. I will /not/ wait until my husband, children, and grandchildren have to go through the pain of me not knowing them anymore. My knowledge and memory is all that I am, without it I am reduced to nothing. This is, imo, worse than death.

 

[Skylar]

I consider it a matter of dignity personally. Alzheimer's runs in my family and I refuse to die remembering nothing and pissing myself as my poor grandmother was forced to do. I should prefer to die with dignity via a less painful method, but absent a doctors assistance I assure you I will find a way to end the suffering of my family. I will /not/ wait until my husband, children, and grandchildren have to go through the pain of me not knowing them anymore. My knowledge and memory is all that I am, without it I am reduced to nothing. This is, imo, worse than death.

This particular law probably wouldn't matter much to Alzheimer's patients. As there are too many criteria of the law that Alzheimer's patients wouldn't meet.

 

[Katzndogz]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.

The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Why are you so desperate to imprison our doctors. You've said the same thing on more then one issue. You in fact make yourself look like a jackass, and leaves me wondering if you're just a another poser?

Doctors that kill people should be imprisoned.

 

[Rustic]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

And the beauty of this bill is that it totally accommodates your world view. If you don't believe in suicide, you don't have to engage in it.

That's the same way it worked in the Netherlands. For awhile anyway.

Fine, just don't expect me to respect, admire or feel compassion for anyone looking for the easy way out. I was brought up seeing any type of suicide as cowardly.

 

[Skylar]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.

The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Why are you so desperate to imprison our doctors. You've said the same thing on more then one issue. You in fact make yourself look like a jackass, and leaves me wondering if you're just a another poser?

Doctors that kill people should be imprisoned.

The doctors wouldn't be killing anyway. The patients ask for and administer the medication themselves.

Which you know, of course. Next fallacy please.

 

[Skylar]

It's a cowards way out...

Really?

How would you like to see your children killed daily? Or if you don't have children, people you loved very much?

That's what my mom had to endure for the last couple of years of her life. She had alzheimers. I would go to see her and she would be crying. Saying she saw me or one of my siblings killed that day. Or raped.

Would you like to endure that for years until you died? Or would you like your mother/father or wife/husband to have to endure that?

No that law can't help someone who has alzheimers but you need to realize that death isn't the coward's way out when a person is suffering from horrible physical pain. Or mental pain. Alzheimers is a brain disease that takes just about all control of the body and all the mental capacity from them. It's not just forgetting people and things.

I had to watch as my dad died from liver cancer. If you've ever seen what happens to a person when the liver shuts down you might understand. The person is literally being poisoned by their own body and cancer. They're in extreme agony. Even the feel of my breath on my dad's skin was horrible pain for him. Even though he was given pain killers.

I would have given anything in this world to have been able to stop my parents from their suffering. When you love your parents as much as I do you understand that you would do anything to stop the suffering and let them finally have peace with love and dignity.

That is the way I see... Growing up on an Indian reservation, it was ingrained by the culture there is no reason for any type of suicide, totally unacceptable.
As a born again Christian I still believe 100% no reason what so ever...

And the beauty of this bill is that it totally accommodates your world view. If you don't believe in suicide, you don't have to engage in it.

That's the same way it worked in the Netherlands. For awhile anyway.

Fine, just don't expect me to respect, admire or feel compassion for anyone looking for the easy way out. I was brought up seeing any type of suicide as cowardly.

Your respect, admiration or compassion isn't a prerequisite. Their consent, agony, immediate terminal illness, and desire to end that suffering is.

 

[pwjohn]

A group of activists are trying to get this law voided and put the issue on the ballot. The law is poorly written as it is. It makes it a felony to trick or lie to a person in order to induce a suicide. Of course there is no possibility that anyone would come back from the grave to testify.

The problem is what happens when a doctor tells someone they have six months to live then the person changes their mind at the last minute. They don't kill themselves. If they live beyond six months the doc is open to a massive lawsuit and has committed a felony.

Why are you so desperate to imprison our doctors. You've said the same thing on more then one issue. You in fact make yourself look like a jackass, and leaves me wondering if you're just a another poser?

Doctors that kill people should be imprisoned.

You are in fact a jackass, or a poser. Hard to say which at this point.

 

[Katzndogz]

I consider it a matter of dignity personally. Alzheimer's runs in my family and I refuse to die remembering nothing and pissing myself as my poor grandmother was forced to do. I should prefer to die with dignity via a less painful method, but absent a doctors assistance I assure you I will find a way to end the suffering of my family. I will /not/ wait until my husband, children, and grandchildren have to go through the pain of me not knowing them anymore. My knowledge and memory is all that I am, without it I am reduced to nothing. This is, imo, worse than death.

This particular law probably wouldn't matter much to Alzheimer's patients. As there are too many criteria of the law that Alzheimer's patients wouldn't meet.

Maybe the law should be changed so that consent is no longer necessary.

 

[EverCurious]

meh I'm willing to accept that I am a coward for my decision to commit suicide in the event I get Alzheimers. My husband and children are well versed in my plans if I should and really they are the only ones that matter in the decision.

 

[Skylar]

I consider it a matter of dignity personally. Alzheimer's runs in my family and I refuse to die remembering nothing and pissing myself as my poor grandmother was forced to do. I should prefer to die with dignity via a less painful method, but absent a doctors assistance I assure you I will find a way to end the suffering of my family. I will /not/ wait until my husband, children, and grandchildren have to go through the pain of me not knowing them anymore. My knowledge and memory is all that I am, without it I am reduced to nothing. This is, imo, worse than death.

This particular law probably wouldn't matter much to Alzheimer's patients. As there are too many criteria of the law that Alzheimer's patients wouldn't meet.

Maybe the law should be changed so that consent is no longer necessary.

At least you're finally acknowledging that this law requires consent of the person committing suicide.

That's progress, I suppose.

 

[Skylar]

meh I'm willing to accept that I am a coward for my decision to commit suicide in the event I get Alzheimers. My husband and children are well versed in my plans if I should and really they are the only ones that matter in the decision.

Nodding.....but what you're describing is outside the scope of this law.