California passes transgender student law

[FA_Q2]

I don't think thats what the ruling says....

A new law requires public schools to allow pupils from kindergarten to the 12th grade to access male or female toilets according to their preference.

As in;

In June, a civil rights panel in Colorado ruled that a school had discriminated against a six-year-old transgender girl by barring her from using the girls' toilets.

And;

Opponents of the legislation said allowing pupils of one gender to use facilities intended for the other could invade the others students' privacy or violate their rights.
"Will transgender students make some other children uncomfortable? Perhaps," said the bill's author, Democratic Assemblyman Tom Ammiano.

"I don't want to minimise that, but new experiences are often uncomfortable. That can't be an excuse for prejudice."


So, its 'prejudice' to expect someone who has ‘ changed' to another sex to use that’s sexes’ bathroom?

AFAIK, the law reads facilities and that is NOT a closed term. Let’s run with it anyway though because what is lacking here is common sense. Why the bathroom then and NOT the shower? What possible explanation can you have for that because quite frankly, there is none? The logic in both cases is identical and the invasion of privacy is equally abhorrent in both instances.

The entire basis of this train of thought is that the person ion question gets to self determine what they are (as though biology has not done that for them) and once this DECISION (that is important) is made the rest of us are OBLIGATED to cater to that.

There are SEVERAL problems with such an asinine thought process. The first is that this is a decision made by the person and that biology took that decision away. A black person might demand that he is white but quite frankly no matter how much demanding they do nature simply does not give a damn – they are still black. A woman is a woman no matter what cloths she throws on or how deep she tries to make her voice. The biological elements are still in place.

Further, I have no problem with you having the freedom to call yourself a woman if you are a man or vice versa BUT this ruling has nothing to do with that. You had that right before the ruling and you have the same unchanged right after. The difference is that you are now FORCING other to accomidate that decition. That is simply wrong. You can do as you please but you have no right to invade MY privacy in the execution of that.

This is no different than suddenly making all ‘facilities’ asexual. I know virtually everyone’s head would detonate instantly if a high school REQUIRED women to use the same facilities as men. Instantly people would be up in arms. What is absolutely fucking asinine is that this is the same fucking thing except that these people are ‘transgender’ and somehow that should afford them some strange protection from being inconvenienced by others privacy rights.

I don’t get it. As soon as an issue about gays or transgender people comes up, everyone looses the god damn mind. Its like critical thinking and logic go right out the damn window in an effort for people that want to feel superior and extra PC to race to the ‘acceptance’ of such asinine concepts.

I don’t give a shit if you don’t like your penis and want to wear a dress. Go ahead, that’s your right. What I am not going to do though is accept that you are something you are not and then suddenly start allowing you to BREAK THE DAMN LAW (because it is illegal for men to use facilities that are marked for women) because you want to ignore reality for your fantasy.

If any of you actually cared about this issue and the ‘poor’ transgendered people, you would be pushing for asexual facilities and the end to gender segregation across all lines. You don’t though because no one wants gender neutrality – it is an asinine concept. Instead, you are all fighting for a protected class that should get to ignore certain laws because they are delusional about the organ located between their legs.

uhm, did you quote the right person? why on earth did you direct that at me?

Well…

It started on the point about bathroom and shower and I kind of just went off from there at the general support that has been given so far in this thread for this asshatery. Didn’t really mean to level the whole thing at you, just the first sentence really. The rest was for the thread at large.

 

[Trajan]

AFAIK, the law reads facilities and that is NOT a closed term. Let’s run with it anyway though because what is lacking here is common sense. Why the bathroom then and NOT the shower? What possible explanation can you have for that because quite frankly, there is none? The logic in both cases is identical and the invasion of privacy is equally abhorrent in both instances.

The entire basis of this train of thought is that the person ion question gets to self determine what they are (as though biology has not done that for them) and once this DECISION (that is important) is made the rest of us are OBLIGATED to cater to that.

There are SEVERAL problems with such an asinine thought process. The first is that this is a decision made by the person and that biology took that decision away. A black person might demand that he is white but quite frankly no matter how much demanding they do nature simply does not give a damn – they are still black. A woman is a woman no matter what cloths she throws on or how deep she tries to make her voice. The biological elements are still in place.

Further, I have no problem with you having the freedom to call yourself a woman if you are a man or vice versa BUT this ruling has nothing to do with that. You had that right before the ruling and you have the same unchanged right after. The difference is that you are now FORCING other to accomidate that decition. That is simply wrong. You can do as you please but you have no right to invade MY privacy in the execution of that.

This is no different than suddenly making all ‘facilities’ asexual. I know virtually everyone’s head would detonate instantly if a high school REQUIRED women to use the same facilities as men. Instantly people would be up in arms. What is absolutely fucking asinine is that this is the same fucking thing except that these people are ‘transgender’ and somehow that should afford them some strange protection from being inconvenienced by others privacy rights.

I don’t get it. As soon as an issue about gays or transgender people comes up, everyone looses the god damn mind. Its like critical thinking and logic go right out the damn window in an effort for people that want to feel superior and extra PC to race to the ‘acceptance’ of such asinine concepts.

I don’t give a shit if you don’t like your penis and want to wear a dress. Go ahead, that’s your right. What I am not going to do though is accept that you are something you are not and then suddenly start allowing you to BREAK THE DAMN LAW (because it is illegal for men to use facilities that are marked for women) because you want to ignore reality for your fantasy.

If any of you actually cared about this issue and the ‘poor’ transgendered people, you would be pushing for asexual facilities and the end to gender segregation across all lines. You don’t though because no one wants gender neutrality – it is an asinine concept. Instead, you are all fighting for a protected class that should get to ignore certain laws because they are delusional about the organ located between their legs.

uhm, did you quote the right person? why on earth did you direct that at me?

Well…

It started on the point about bathroom and shower and I kind of just went off from there at the general support that has been given so far in this thread for this asshatery. Didn’t really mean to level the whole thing at you, just the first sentence really. The rest was for the thread at large.

well, I think they should use the facility that fits their physical gender. If all of this was surfaced because of 'bullying' etc. just wait, you aint seen nothing yet.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

uhm, did you quote the right person? why on earth did you direct that at me?

Well…

It started on the point about bathroom and shower and I kind of just went off from there at the general support that has been given so far in this thread for this asshatery. Didn’t really mean to level the whole thing at you, just the first sentence really. The rest was for the thread at large.

well, I think they should use the facility that fits their physical gender. If all of this was surfaced because of 'bullying' etc. just wait, you aint seen nothing yet.

What do you mean by "physical gender"?

The process of gender transition takes many years, and for a significant portion of time, they will have the body of their desired sex and the genitalia of their birth sex.

Which bathroom should they use?

Should someone who physically looks like a woman be forced to use the Men's room?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

 

[MeBelle]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

Is he in grades K-12?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

Is he in grades K-12?

I'm asking in a more general sense, but there's no reason why a born-female 12th grader undergoing the transition wouldn't look as "manly" as Buck Angel does.

 

[Montrovant]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

That is entirely dependent on the reason for having separate bathrooms in the first place.

Is the criteria how masculine or feminine a person looks at first glance?

Do what genitals a person has play no part?

Who gets to decide, if the criteria isn't a specific one?

 

[Plasmaball]

And?

Whether or not it is a choice is irrelevant to the point which was that sexual identity disorder is NOT connected to sexual desire. The choice or lack of it is irrelevant to that what gender you identify with. Arguing this straw man is simply another way to distract from the fact that you cannot support the positions that you have taken in this thread.

The sociocultural influences on the development of GID are traumatic rearing and sexual orientation. Traumatic child-rearing that developed into gender dysphoria is evidenced by the experience of David Reimer, a natal male whose penis was accidentally amputated as an infant, so his parents raised him as female. David was never comfortable with his assigned femaleness, and he transitioned back to a male later in life. He committed suicide at age of 39.[14] In terms of sexual orientation as a cause for GID, Ray Blanchard proposes that male-to-female "homosexual transsexuals" transition because they are attracted to men, and male-to-female "non-homosexual transsexuals" become transsexual because they are autogynephillic, attracted to the idea of themselves as a female.[15]

so its a little of both...so it is relevant to the issue.

furthermore has anyone asked the students how they feel?

I am supposed to ask a bunch of teenage boys if they have an objection to sleeping with a teenage girl?

By the way, I dare you to tell me this is not the issue.

its not the issue....What are you going to do? Tangent me to death?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well…

It started on the point about bathroom and shower and I kind of just went off from there at the general support that has been given so far in this thread for this asshatery. Didn’t really mean to level the whole thing at you, just the first sentence really. The rest was for the thread at large.

well, I think they should use the facility that fits their physical gender. If all of this was surfaced because of 'bullying' etc. just wait, you aint seen nothing yet.

What do you mean by "physical gender"?

The process of gender transition takes many years, and for a significant portion of time, they will have the body of their desired sex and the genitalia of their birth sex.

Which bathroom should they use?

Should someone who physically looks like a woman be forced to use the Men's room?

They do not. It is entirely possible to be born a male, know you are a male, and still develop breasts. No one anywhere has ever tried to argue that the mere existence of breasts makes those males into women, why the fuck should I believe you know what the fuck you are talking about?

Anyway, why the fuck are children getting hormone treatments? Can you explain the logic behind California making it illegal to tell doctors that they cannot tell minors that sexual preference is a choice, yet allowing doctors to give minors drugs to induce boys growing tits? By the way, if it is legal to tell boys with gynecomastia not to use the girl's restroom, why is it illegal to tell boys without that perfectly natural condition not to use it? Does the fact that the swelling is artificially induced somehow justify taking away the right of young girls not to use the same bathroom as boys?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

Do you understand the difference between children and porn stars? If not, I suggest you stay away from the internet because you will end up in prison.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Which bathroom should Buck Angel use?

Is he in grades K-12?

I'm asking in a more general sense, but there's no reason why a born-female 12th grader undergoing the transition wouldn't look as "manly" as Buck Angel does.

That was incredibly ignorant. Why don't you call up some doctors before you pretend that they are willing to give massive doses of steroids to teenagers?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

so its a little of both...so it is relevant to the issue.

furthermore has anyone asked the students how they feel?

I am supposed to ask a bunch of teenage boys if they have an objection to sleeping with a teenage girl?

By the way, I dare you to tell me this is not the issue.

its not the issue....What are you going to do? Tangent me to death?

Thank you.

The DOJ filed a civil rights lawsuit against a California school district because they wouldn't let a girl sleep in the same cabin as the boys during a school trip.

In the years that followed, the student's parents repeatedly tried to get the district to allow the student to use male-designated facilities but the school refused, citing safety and privacy concerns. Stating that she could use the private restroom in the nurse’s office, the child was reportedly frustrated with this arrangement. When the school denied a 2011 request from the student's parents to allow her to share a cabin with several boys during a school trip, they filed a complaint with the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division.

DOJ ripped for making transgender restroom use new front in civil rights battle | Fox News

Thank you for being gullible.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Except they aren't pretending. Where is it written that a girl can't play on a boys sports team?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/s...-florida-high-school.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

If it's not written that a girl can't play on a boys sport (or vice versa) then why did they make it a law?

The whole bathroom thing? Use the bathroom of what physical gender you are. I have no problem with an already existing bathroom (say the nurses office) being offered to those with gender issues. But to let them use whatever they desire? Bullshit.

This is just ANOTHER small, small minority screaming and demanding that the vast majority bend to their wishes. I'm sick and and tired of this shit.

Because transgendered students aren't doing it to play sports. They are transgendered and still want to participate in sports. Not the same thing. They will be using the facilities of the gender they associate with, that's all.

Exactly.

This is very simple, it’s not difficult to understand.

And this nonsense about ‘restrooms’ is a red herring.

Unfortunately such laws are necessary to countervail the ignorance, hate, and intolerance of conservatives who are pointlessly hostile to transgender persons.

Proof of conservative ignorance, hate, and intolerance concerning transgender persons can be found in this very thread.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If it's not written that a girl can't play on a boys sport (or vice versa) then why did they make it a law?

The whole bathroom thing? Use the bathroom of what physical gender you are. I have no problem with an already existing bathroom (say the nurses office) being offered to those with gender issues. But to let them use whatever they desire? Bullshit.

This is just ANOTHER small, small minority screaming and demanding that the vast majority bend to their wishes. I'm sick and and tired of this shit.

Because transgendered students aren't doing it to play sports. They are transgendered and still want to participate in sports. Not the same thing. They will be using the facilities of the gender they associate with, that's all.

Exactly.

This is very simple, it’s not difficult to understand.

And this nonsense about ‘restrooms’ is a red herring.

Unfortunately such laws are necessary to countervail the ignorance, hate, and intolerance of conservatives who are pointlessly hostile to transgender persons.

Proof of conservative ignorance, hate, and intolerance concerning transgender persons can be found in this very thread.

Since the DOJ got involved because a school wouldn't let a girl use the boys restroom, or sleep with the boys in the same cabin, it is not a red herring. I will also point out that AB-1266 specifically states.

A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.

Bill Text - AB-1266 Pupil rights: sex-segregated school programs and activities.

Care to point out how that makes bathrooms a red herring? Why does a kid claiming to be something they demonstrably are not get to take away the rights of other children?

 

[MeBelle]

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 221.5 of the Education Code is amended to read:
221.5. (a) It is the policy of the state that elementary and secondary school classes and courses, including nonacademic and elective classes and courses, be conducted, without regard to the sex of the pupil enrolled in these classes and courses.
(b) A school district may not prohibit a pupil from enrolling in any class or course on the basis of the sex of the pupil, except a class subject to Chapter 5.6 (commencing with Section 51930) of Part 28 of Division 4 of Title 2.
(c) A school district may not require a pupil of one sex to enroll in a particular class or course, unless the same class or course is also required of a pupil of the opposite sex.
(d) A school counselor, teacher, instructor, administrator, or aide may not, on the basis of the sex of a pupil, offer vocational or school program guidance to a pupil of one sex that is different from that offered to a pupil of the opposite sex or, in counseling a pupil, differentiate career, vocational, or higher education opportunities on the basis of the sex of the pupil counseled. Any school personnel acting in a career counseling or course selection capacity to a pupil shall affirmatively explore with the pupil the possibility of careers, or courses leading to careers, that are nontraditional for that pupil’s sex. The parents or legal guardian of the pupil shall be notified in a general manner at least once in the manner prescribed by Section 48980, in advance of career counseling and course selection commencing with course selection for grade 7 so that they may participate in the counseling sessions and decisions.

(e) Participation in a particular physical education activity or sport, if required of pupils of one sex, shall be available to pupils of each sex.

(f) A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.

Bill Text - AB-1266 Pupil rights: sex-segregated school programs and activities.

This is where I pat myself on the back and know I made the correct decision to pull my young daughter out of public school in sixth grade.