Can anyone help me find lesser known Bible translations?

[Book of Jeremiah]

One final thought for you, Marge! The Covenant Chuck refers to as the "Old Covenant" is in Exodus 24 of the Torah. That Covenant was ratified through Blood. The Blood of animals.

The New Covenant is ratified through Blood too! The Blood of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach which was the perfect sacrifice sent by G-d to shed his blood on Calvary's tree for the sins of the World. Not only his Jewish Brethren. You cannot see this yet but you will one day.

Surely, He has saved the best for last! How beautiful is that??! I hope I am still alive on the earth to see the day when the Jews will recognize their Messiah. I'm so looking forward to this day. It is the most beautiful love story I have ever heard in my life.

Much love, Jeri

You know I love you Jeri, but I need to clarify this.

The covenant in this case was symbolized by circumcision, immersion in a Mikvah (ritual bath), and the sprinkling of the blood. These were rituals.

Obviously jews don't believe jesus was the messiah for the reasons that I have already stated previously.

Also, it's against jewish law to sacrifice people.

We are responsible for our own sins.

Just because someone else died, if we sin we need to make amends for those sins, and we, and we alone, are responsible for getting forgiveness for those sins.

Hi, Mike. I know you do and I love you too, brother. It is fine. I understand this is what you believe. I also know you love G-d with all of your heart and soul and mind and strength and are as careful as I'm trying to be so the best thing to do is just agree that some things we may not agree upon but our love for the G-d of Israel and our love for Israel and the Jewish brethren is common ground we will always share. No matter what.

I am praying for Israel this morning. I'm also praying for protection over our military and our fellow Americans at home. I have a very heavy heart about America. I believe that in a very short time now we will see things we have not seen before and I am praying G-d would prepare the hearts of the people for what lies up ahead. We are in a very dark hour right now, Mike. I am still praying for the president that he would change his mind and not do it. I'm also praying for families with children, the people in Syria, Egypt. There is alot to pray about. Have a good day today and may G-d surround you with his peace and comfort, brother. - Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

Then respect my religion and I'll respect yours.

Calling my bible the Old Testament is offensive.

Mike,

No is is calling the Torah the Old Testament in order to be offensive to Jews.
Christianity is a major religion and that is what the first 39 books are called..

Chuck

 

[Chuckt]

Chuck, you lost any chance of 'winning' that argument with Mike when you cited the NT: it has zero 'authority' for any Jew as regards Judaism.

Most of us are quite familiar with what Christians believe our Torah says: it's Christians who seem blissfully unaware of what we Jews believe is in the Torah.

MHunterB,

My purpose was not to convert Jewish people because of Romans 9, 10 and 11 which pretty much indicate the future of what the New Testament teaches about the future. The reasons why some Christians don't evangelize Jewish people is because we understand that Jewish people won't believe in the Christian messiah until after Jacob's trouble which would be about 3 and 1/2 years into a time Christians call the Great Tribulation period.

I'm not trying to win anything because I've been given information about the future.

But if you are trying to convince me that Christians are unaware of what Jews believe in their own Torah then you should also consider your history because in 606 B.C King Nebuchadnezzar took the people captive to Babylon and returned in 588-586 B.C. and burned the Temple along with the city. Ijn 70 A.D., Titus burned the Temple and burned the city of Jerusalem. Israel wasn't a nation again until 1948 which fulfilled Deuteronomy 28:25.

Deuteronomy 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Chuck

 

[Chuckt]

Jesus may be the christian messiah but he is not the jewish one.

Actually the jewish messiah will not be rejected. He will be pretty popular. He will be the unified kind of Israel.

He will be so charismatic that all the jews will come to Israel and stay there and all nations will worship one G-D.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

How popular would anyone be to rebuke MANY people?

Zecariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Zecariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zecariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

How popular do you think He will be among the heathen that may be left or those whom don't obey?

Why the warning if He won't be rejected and be pretty popular?

Hosea 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.

Hosea sounds a lot like Revelation:

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Moonglow]

Learn Latin, Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew, it will help with more accurate translations.

 

[Chuckt]

Also, it's against jewish law to sacrifice people.

We are responsible for our own sins.

Just because someone else died, if we sin we need to make amends for those sins, and we, and we alone, are responsible for getting forgiveness for those sins.

Children may not have been viewed as responsible adults but they can still sin and Leviticus 16:16 says that they can make an atonement for all their sins. Verse 17 says that he can make "an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel."


"And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the LORD shall appear unto you."-Leviticus 9:6

Apparently, it was the whole congregation that stood before the Lord (Leviticus 9:5).

"And he brought the people's offering, and took the goat, which was the sin offering for the people, and slew it, and offered it for sin, as the first."-Leviticus 9:15

When I see Leviticus 10:6 say that wrath would come upon all the people then I believe that "all" means "all".

"In the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, were eight thousand and six hundred, keeping the charge of the sanctuary."-Numbers 3:28

It is interesting that all the males from a month old and upward were counted if they weren't responsible adults.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

 

[Chuckt]

In that day the words of the Hebrew prophets shall be fulfilled and ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!

Romans 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed (singular) be called.

Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Parallel Verses
New International Version
Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.

New Living Translation
But though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant of them will return. The LORD has rightly decided to destroy his people.

English Standard Version
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness.

New American Standard Bible
For though your people, O Israel, may be like the sand of the sea, Only a remnant within them will return; A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

King James Bible
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Israel, even if your people were as numerous as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction has been decreed; justice overflows.

International Standard Version
For even if your people of Israel number as many as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Overwhelming, righteous destruction is decreed,

NET Bible
For though your people, Israel, are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a remnant will come back. Destruction has been decreed; just punishment is about to engulf you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although your people Israel may be as [numerous as] the grains of sand on the seashore, only a few will return. Destruction will be complete and fair.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet the remnant of them shall become converted; when the consumption comes to an end, righteousness shall overflow.

King James 2000 Bible
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

American King James Version
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

American Standard Version
For though thy people, Israel, be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For if thy people, O Israel, shall be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be converted, the consumption abridged shall overflow with justice.

Darby Bible Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: the consumption determined shall overflow in righteousness.

English Revised Version
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a consumption is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Webster's Bible Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

World English Bible
For though your people, Israel, are like the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Young's Literal Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, A remnant doth return of it, A consumption determined, Overflowing with righteousness.

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/10-22.htm

 

[CMike]

Then respect my religion and I'll respect yours.

Calling my bible the Old Testament is offensive.

Mike,

No is is calling the Torah the Old Testament in order to be offensive to Jews.
Christianity is a major religion and that is what the first 39 books are called..

Chuck

The Torah is my bible, not yours.

And yes calling my bible the "Old Testament" thereby implying it is to be replaced or continued by your "new Testament" is offensive to jews.

In fact, if you want to get technical about it your bible is an "Old Testament" too.

So I guess we have an Old Testament, and an Older Testament.

Some christians may call it out Old Testmant out of ignorance, they don't know better, or simply don't care, which seems your case.

However, I am more than willing to respond to your posts where you call my Torah the "Old Testament", by calling your bible the Incorrect Christian bible.

 

[CMike]

Jesus may be the christian messiah but he is not the jewish one.

Actually the jewish messiah will not be rejected. He will be pretty popular. He will be the unified kind of Israel.

He will be so charismatic that all the jews will come to Israel and stay there and all nations will worship one G-D.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

How popular would anyone be to rebuke MANY people??

Hello?? Do you even read and comprehend your own posts.

Do you realize what the Messiah will do.

He will lead to world peace. He will be so charismatic that as Isaiah said "shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more".

That's pretty charismatic.

BTW did jesus lead to world peace? No. That's because he wasn't the messiah.

He clearly did not fulfill the messianic propheshy which you were so kind to quote.

Zecariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Zecariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zecariah 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

How popular do you think He will be among the heathen that may be left or those whom don't obey?

Why the warning if He won't be rejected and be pretty popular??

If you actually read the text that you are quoting, you will see that Zecariah is prophesizing about nations that are attacking Jerusalem.

You left out passage 12

12. And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the nations who besieged Jerusalem; his flesh will waste away while he still stands on his feet; his eyes will waste away in their sockets, and his tongue shall waste away in his mouth

Hosea 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us. ?

You have a bad translation.

8. The high places of Aven are destroyed, the sin of Israel; thorns and thistles shall come up on their altars, and they shall say to the mountains, "Cover us up," and to the hills, "Fall upon us."

Hosea sounds a lot like Revelation:

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What's in the Incorrect Christian Bible (ICB) has no relevance to jews so I'm not going to comment on it.

 

[CMike]

In that day the words of the Hebrew prophets shall be fulfilled and ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!

Romans 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed (singular) be called.

Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Parallel Verses
New International Version
Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.

New Living Translation
But though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant of them will return. The LORD has rightly decided to destroy his people.

English Standard Version
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness.

New American Standard Bible
For though your people, O Israel, may be like the sand of the sea, Only a remnant within them will return; A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

King James Bible
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Israel, even if your people were as numerous as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction has been decreed; justice overflows.

International Standard Version
For even if your people of Israel number as many as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Overwhelming, righteous destruction is decreed,

NET Bible
For though your people, Israel, are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a remnant will come back. Destruction has been decreed; just punishment is about to engulf you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although your people Israel may be as [numerous as] the grains of sand on the seashore, only a few will return. Destruction will be complete and fair.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet the remnant of them shall become converted; when the consumption comes to an end, righteousness shall overflow.

King James 2000 Bible
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

American King James Version
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

American Standard Version
For though thy people, Israel, be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For if thy people, O Israel, shall be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be converted, the consumption abridged shall overflow with justice.

Darby Bible Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: the consumption determined shall overflow in righteousness.

English Revised Version
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a consumption is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Webster's Bible Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

World English Bible
For though your people, Israel, are like the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. A destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness.

Young's Literal Translation
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, A remnant doth return of it, A consumption determined, Overflowing with righteousness.

Isaiah 10:22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.

Thank your for showing how your bible and my bible are incompatible, and that you worship a different god than the jews do.

 

[CMike]

Also, it's against jewish law to sacrifice people.

We are responsible for our own sins.

Just because someone else died, if we sin we need to make amends for those sins, and we, and we alone, are responsible for getting forgiveness for those sins.

Children may not have been viewed as responsible adults but they can still sin and Leviticus 16:16 says that they can make an atonement for all their sins. Verse 17 says that he can make "an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel."

Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, once again you need to look at the context, which for some reason you continuously ignore.

16. And he shall effect atonement upon the Holy from the defilements of the children of Israel and from their rebellions and all their unintentional sins. He shall do likewise to the Tent of Meeting, which dwells with them amidst their defilements

17. And no man shall be in the Tent of Meeting when he comes to effect atonement in the Holy, until he comes out. And he shall effect atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

Aaron will make attonement for those who entered the Sanctuary while unclean. That was his domain.

"And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the LORD shall appear unto you."-Leviticus 9:6

Apparently, it was the whole congregation that stood before the Lord (Leviticus 9:5).

Yeah, and?

"And he brought the people's offering, and took the goat, which was the sin offering for the people, and slew it, and offered it for sin, as the first."-Leviticus 9:15

So?

6. And Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and to Ithamar, his sons, "Do not leave your heads unshorn, and do not rend your garments, so that you shall not die, and lest He be angry with the entire community, but your brothers, the entire house of Israel, shall bewail the conflagration that the Lord has burned

This means that when Torah scholars are afflicted all of Israel is supposed to mourn for them.



Oncea gain, just quoting passages, really doesn't mean much.

You need to actually read and understand the context of the passages.

 

[CMike]

Chuck, you lost any chance of 'winning' that argument with Mike when you cited the NT: it has zero 'authority' for any Jew as regards Judaism.

Most of us are quite familiar with what Christians believe our Torah says: it's Christians who seem blissfully unaware of what we Jews believe is in the Torah.

MHunterB,

My purpose was not to convert Jewish people because of Romans 9, 10 and 11 which pretty much indicate the future of what the New Testament teaches about the future. The reasons why some Christians don't evangelize Jewish people is because we understand that Jewish people won't believe in the Christian messiah until after Jacob's trouble which would be about 3 and 1/2 years into a time Christians call the Great Tribulation period.

I'm not trying to win anything because I've been given information about the future.

But if you are trying to convince me that Christians are unaware of what Jews believe in their own Torah then you should also consider your history because in 606 B.C King Nebuchadnezzar took the people captive to Babylon and returned in 588-586 B.C. and burned the Temple along with the city. Ijn 70 A.D., Titus burned the Temple and burned the city of Jerusalem. Israel wasn't a nation again until 1948 which fulfilled Deuteronomy 28:25.

Deuteronomy 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Chuck

What does have to do with the fact that christians don't know the Torah as well as Jews do?

Also you contradict yourself again Deuteronomy makes it clear that G-D wants to jews to observe all his commandments and his statues.

Therefore, jesus anouncement that he "fulfilled the law" once again contradicts and challenges what G-D said.

Could you pleasse pick a side?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Chuck, you lost any chance of 'winning' that argument with Mike when you cited the NT: it has zero 'authority' for any Jew as regards Judaism.

Most of us are quite familiar with what Christians believe our Torah says: it's Christians who seem blissfully unaware of what we Jews believe is in the Torah.

MHunterB,

My purpose was not to convert Jewish people because of Romans 9, 10 and 11 which pretty much indicate the future of what the New Testament teaches about the future. The reasons why some Christians don't evangelize Jewish people is because we understand that Jewish people won't believe in the Christian messiah until after Jacob's trouble which would be about 3 and 1/2 years into a time Christians call the Great Tribulation period.

I'm not trying to win anything because I've been given information about the future.

But if you are trying to convince me that Christians are unaware of what Jews believe in their own Torah then you should also consider your history because in 606 B.C King Nebuchadnezzar took the people captive to Babylon and returned in 588-586 B.C. and burned the Temple along with the city. Ijn 70 A.D., Titus burned the Temple and burned the city of Jerusalem. Israel wasn't a nation again until 1948 which fulfilled Deuteronomy 28:25.

Deuteronomy 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Chuck

What does have to do with the fact that christians don't know the Torah as well as Jews do?

Also you contradict yourself again Deuteronomy makes it clear that G-D wants to jews to observe all his commandments and his statues.

Therefore, jesus anouncement that he "fulfilled the law" once again contradicts and challenges what G-D said.

Could you pleasse pick a side?

Mike,

I have two scriptures the Holy Spirit gave me but before I give this to you, I have something I'd like to say.

When my own family abandoned me it was secular Jews who took me in and loved me and nurtured me like a wounded bird. Not the church. I will never forget that and to this day these people are in my life and I love them deeply. There is nothing that will ever take away that love in my heart for them. People have told me I am going to hell because I didn't preach to the Jews! That I denied my faith. No one knows the hurt I feel in my heart so please do not tell me you know how I feel. Because you do not.

I know Jeanne Wilkerson - my mentor in prayer who was an intercessor for the Viet nam POW's during the Viet Nam war - she prayed for them ten hours a day while they were in captivity. When they were released they said they recognized Jeanne as they said she visited them in their dreams encouraging them and praying for them. How to explain that. Only the Holy Spirit can explain such things. They saw her though because they did recognize her when they met her after the war.

Anyhow Jeanne had people she loved who didn't believe in Jesus either.

So Jeanne said one night the Lord said, Jeanne! If you will pray for these people bringing up each name to me I will wrestle them on their bed at night until I save them. So she did and she said G-d would do that for anyone! So that is what I'm doing. I'm asking G-d to let my precious Jewish friends ( you included Mike ) be a part of the remnant because I can't imagine heaven without any of you. I refuse to let go! I won't do it! I will name you all by name and ask the Father to reveal Jesus to you all and save you.

So if there is only a remnant - the people I've met will be a part of it! By faith I believe this. Now that I have plead my case on the matter here is what the Holy Spirit gave me.



Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him. ( Jesus ) but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue. For they loved the praises of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42, 43

Now let me close with this. Public opinion is enemy #1 to the individual who seeks to do the will of G-d. It is the one thing that will keep you from the blessings of G-d, the plan of G-d and the destiny he has for you. If man holds a higher place in your heart than the Lord does there is something wrong. On the other hand if a person did not know they would not be holding man higher in their heart but G-d as they understand him to have presented himself.

Only G-d knows the heart of a man and what he knows and does not know. I cannot know the heart of any man nor would I dare to claim such a thing. Ever!

Now I'm leaving. I am not writing on the politics threads and I'm not writing on the Israel and Palestine threads any more. I'm not spending time that belongs to the Lord dilly dallying around with such godless chatter! It will only lead to more sin and I'm over my quota for that I can assure you!

I need to redeem the time and do what the Lord wants me to do. Not what people want me to do! If people can't love me for just putting up a few songs now and such... and not joining them any more for war on the boards then so be it. I'm not called to do war on the boards! I'm called to do war on the floor! On that note I'll go and I won't be discussing any of this again. I obeyed the Holy Spirit! I did what He told me to do!

I know the Holy Spirit is watching over His word to perform it as he is the author and revelator of the scriptures. There is no question that by the Holy Spirit I know the Torah better than some Jews. But I will never "understand the Torah" as the Jews do because they have been taught by a man from a completely different perspective. I was taught of the Holy Ghost and I make no apologies for it. Good night. - Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

Chuck, you lost any chance of 'winning' that argument with Mike when you cited the NT: it has zero 'authority' for any Jew as regards Judaism.

Most of us are quite familiar with what Christians believe our Torah says: it's Christians who seem blissfully unaware of what we Jews believe is in the Torah.

MHunterB,

My purpose was not to convert Jewish people because of Romans 9, 10 and 11 which pretty much indicate the future of what the New Testament teaches about the future. The reasons why some Christians don't evangelize Jewish people is because we understand that Jewish people won't believe in the Christian messiah until after Jacob's trouble which would be about 3 and 1/2 years into a time Christians call the Great Tribulation period.

I'm not trying to win anything because I've been given information about the future.

But if you are trying to convince me that Christians are unaware of what Jews believe in their own Torah then you should also consider your history because in 606 B.C King Nebuchadnezzar took the people captive to Babylon and returned in 588-586 B.C. and burned the Temple along with the city. Ijn 70 A.D., Titus burned the Temple and burned the city of Jerusalem. Israel wasn't a nation again until 1948 which fulfilled Deuteronomy 28:25.

Deuteronomy 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Chuck

What does have to do with the fact that christians don't know the Torah as well as Jews do?

Also you contradict yourself again Deuteronomy makes it clear that G-D wants to jews to observe all his commandments and his statues.

Therefore, jesus anouncement that he "fulfilled the law" once again contradicts and challenges what G-D said.

Could you pleasse pick a side?

Mike,

We read the Old Testament and we read the New Testament.

The law is a schoolmaster. The law is basically a mirror and we look at the mirror to show us that our face is dirty. We don't use the law to get clean.

The law is still good but it was a covenant for the Jewish people.

Just because I sin and can be forgiven doesn't mean that I don't have to live with the consequences. The Jews didn't keep the Sabbath and didn't rest the land every seven years so I think the punishment is still on until the Messiah comes back.

I trust Moses and the Prophets but I'm not sure I trust a people in everything who disobeyed G-d. Would you? You wouldn't trust false teachers in the Christian Church anymore than I would trust the Sanhedrin who conducted an illegal trial at night.

The Jewish people are still paying for Abraham's sin of unbelief of helping G-d out with Hagar (Genesis 16).

If the Jewish people disobeyed G-D and were lead into captivity twice and were punished and left their homeland until 1948, then what reason should I trust them on spiritual matters today? That is my question for you to answer, Mike. If a Christian did that, I would accuse them of unbelief. Why should I follow an unbeliever? Where do you think they will lead me?

There is some looking forward to cooperation in the future because Christians already have the Jewish prophets as a foundation:

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

This day doesn't happen until the Church is taken out of the way where the Holy Spirit is taken from the Church and put back on the nation of Israel to deal with the nations.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

As future Jews may/will be.

Chuck

 

[Chuckt]

"Who is John Galt?" - Atlas Shrugged

I noticed her group got banned from England. I emailed her because she took down the documents that England mailed her. She wrote back and said she didn't know what I was talking about. I saw it, Mike. When I don't get a straight answer then I believe there are problems with the organization.

 

[Chuckt]

Also, it's against jewish law to sacrifice people.

We are responsible for our own sins.

Just because someone else died, if we sin we need to make amends for those sins, and we, and we alone, are responsible for getting forgiveness for those sins.

Children may not have been viewed as responsible adults but they can still sin and Leviticus 16:16 says that they can make an atonement for all their sins. Verse 17 says that he can make "an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel."

Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, once again you need to look at the context, which for some reason you continuously ignore.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is in the blood that makes atonement for the soul."-Leviticus 17:11

There is no more Temple because Titus destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. and there are no more sacrifices. How are you going to make atonement for your soul?

English Standard Version
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Leviticus 5:11 "'If, however, they cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, they are to bring as an offering for their sin a tenth of an ephah of the finest flour for a sin offering. They must not put olive oil or incense on it, because it is a
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

 

[CMike]

Children may not have been viewed as responsible adults but they can still sin and Leviticus 16:16 says that they can make an atonement for all their sins. Verse 17 says that he can make "an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel."

Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, once again you need to look at the context, which for some reason you continuously ignore.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is in the blood that makes atonement for the soul."-Leviticus 17:11

There is no more Temple because Titus destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. and there are no more sacrifices. How are you going to make atonement for your soul

The way G-D told Cain to attone for his sins, by improving.

Genesis 4

Genesis - Chapter 4 (Parshah Bereishit) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

7. Is it not so that if you improve, it will be forgiven you? If you do not improve, however, at the entrance, sin is lying, and to you is its longing, but you can rule over it."

English Standard Version
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

That is your christian bible, it has nothing to do with the Torah or jews.

Leviticus 5:11 "'If, however, they cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, they are to bring as an offering for their sin a tenth of an ephah of the finest flour for a sin offering. They must not put olive oil or incense on it, because it is a

It's saying that if jews can't afford two doves they can bring two pigeons because it's less expensive.

Is there are a point somewhere?

You do realize that G-D said in numerous passages to rely only on him? He has said that only he is your saviour.

So by thinking that jesus "attoned for your sins" your contradicting and challenging G-D.

 

[CMike]

"Who is John Galt?" - Atlas Shrugged

I noticed her group got banned from England. I emailed her because she took down the documents that England mailed her. She wrote back and said she didn't know what I was talking about. I saw it, Mike. When I don't get a straight answer then I believe there are problems with the organization.

I see the problem.

Ayn Rand died in 1982

 

[CMike]

MHunterB,

My purpose was not to convert Jewish people because of Romans 9, 10 and 11 which pretty much indicate the future of what the New Testament teaches about the future. The reasons why some Christians don't evangelize Jewish people is because we understand that Jewish people won't believe in the Christian messiah until after Jacob's trouble which would be about 3 and 1/2 years into a time Christians call the Great Tribulation period.

I'm not trying to win anything because I've been given information about the future.

But if you are trying to convince me that Christians are unaware of what Jews believe in their own Torah then you should also consider your history because in 606 B.C King Nebuchadnezzar took the people captive to Babylon and returned in 588-586 B.C. and burned the Temple along with the city. Ijn 70 A.D., Titus burned the Temple and burned the city of Jerusalem. Israel wasn't a nation again until 1948 which fulfilled Deuteronomy 28:25.

Deuteronomy 28:15 ¶ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Chuck

What does have to do with the fact that christians don't know the Torah as well as Jews do?

Also you contradict yourself again Deuteronomy makes it clear that G-D wants to jews to observe all his commandments and his statues.

Therefore, jesus anouncement that he "fulfilled the law" once again contradicts and challenges what G-D said.

Could you pleasse pick a side?

Mike,

We read the Old Testament and we read the New Testament.

I don't know what the Old Testament is?

The law is a schoolmaster. The law is basically a mirror and we look at the mirror to show us that our face is dirty. We don't use the law to get clean.

No idea what you are talking about.

The law is still good but it was a covenant for the Jewish people.

Just because I sin and can be forgiven doesn't mean that I don't have to live with the consequences. The Jews didn't keep the Sabbath and didn't rest the land every seven years so I think the punishment is still on until the Messiah comes back..

Some jews didn't keep the shabbos, not all. The punishment if any is up to G-D.

I trust Moses and the Prophets but I'm not sure I trust a people in everything who disobeyed G-d. Would you? You wouldn't trust false teachers in the Christian Church anymore than I would trust the Sanhedrin who conducted an illegal trial at night.

Some jews disobeyed G-D some didn't. Some unfortunately worshipped a false god of jesus and some didn't

There was no Sanhedrin trial of jesus since the Sanhedrin didn't operate at that time.

The Jewish people are still paying for Abraham's sin of unbelief of helping G-d out with Hagar (Genesis 16)

And you have conluded this how?

If the Jewish people disobeyed G-D and were lead into captivity twice and were punished and left their homeland until 1948, then what reason should I trust them on spiritual matters today? That is my question for you to answer, Mike. If a Christian did that, I would accuse them of unbelief. Why should I follow an unbeliever? Where do you think they will lead me?

I don't care if your trust them on spirtitual matters or not.

The Torah was written by jews, for jews, and to be interpreted by jews. To think that christians know better what is in the Torah is the height of arrogance.

It would be similar to muslims telling christians what's really in the christian bible.

There is some looking forward to cooperation in the future because Christians already have the Jewish prophets as a foundation:

Not really because you ignore the true messianic prophesies and substitute your own.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The only chief cornerstone is the one and only G-D. Worshipping anyone else is basically calling G-D a liar.

 

[MHunterB]

Then respect my religion and I'll respect yours.

Calling my bible the Old Testament is offensive.

Mike,

No is is calling the Torah the Old Testament in order to be offensive to Jews.
Christianity is a major religion and that is what the first 39 books are called..

Chuck

Chuck - 'argument from numbers' is a logical fallacy.

Judaism was around for 1600 years before anyone thought of calling themselves a 'Christian'. It would be technically correct and NOT disrespectful of anyone to refer to it as 'the Hebrew Bible'.....

And a further reminder, since you seem to keep forgetting: Regardless of the 'size' of Christianity or any given person's devotion to that faith, nobody else on the planet has the least 'duty' to believe in Christianity. Nor do Christians have any right whatsoever to get their knickers in a knot over that fact.

And yes, Chuck - that goes for every single other religion on the planet, equally. There is simply no reason to not treat all religions one's not an adherent of equally.... unless, of course, one of the religions claims to be the one, the true, the ONLY WAY for EVERYONE. In which case, they're philosophically no different from Nazis AFAICT