Can Atheists be Moral?

[ding]

When in Rome...

 

[sealybobo]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

They have the fashion sense to avoid the big funny hats worn by the catholic clergy.

But don’t you think I’m making a good point that ding probably wants to avoid? Christians go on and on about why atheists don’t believe in the Bible but do they use any of those same arguments when debating Christianity with people of other faiths?

We are all atheists. Ding doesn’t believe in the Hindu Mormon or Muslim gods. He just believes in one more god than I do.

Same with Muslims. They aren’t buying the new or Old testaments or the book of Mormons just like I don’t.

Your point is well taken.

People accept what their theistic beliefs are for many reasons (mostly cultural), but rarely do they apply very hard standards to those reasons. They tend to be cultural, i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another.

If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Ding will disagree in 5,4,3,2,

 

[ding]

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

They have the fashion sense to avoid the big funny hats worn by the catholic clergy.

But don’t you think I’m making a good point that ding probably wants to avoid? Christians go on and on about why atheists don’t believe in the Bible but do they use any of those same arguments when debating Christianity with people of other faiths?

We are all atheists. Ding doesn’t believe in the Hindu Mormon or Muslim gods. He just believes in one more god than I do.

Same with Muslims. They aren’t buying the new or Old testaments or the book of Mormons just like I don’t.

Your point is well taken.

People accept what their theistic beliefs are for many reasons (mostly cultural), but rarely do they apply very hard standards to those reasons. They tend to be cultural, i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another.

If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Ding will disagree in 5,4,3,2,

Dude, see post #521.

I'm not an atheist. I don't have to believe that every single religion has gotten it wrong. You do.

I get to see a lot of things I agree with. You guys are so emotional about this you fell into your own trap.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't can't speak for atheists but I think that Ding, a genuine believer, has proven beyond any doubt that he can't be moral if honesty is required.

not when it is the 4th century christian bible - they believe in ... and dismissing recorded history the victims of their chosen religion.

 

[hobelim]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

I hate to be the one to tell you but any story that starts with "In the beginning" just like "Once upon a time" and then introduces a talking serpent is a fairy tale with a moral teaching.

 

[hobelim]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

Ok I’ll give you there was a nice man name Jesus born 2000 years ago. Jews Mormons muslims Hindu Buddhist agree with that too.

Ugh.. There were lots of nice men 2000 years ago, well, probably at least a few.

Why do you suppose that this particular nice man, who was despised according to the story, was singled out to be the subject of a fantastical story about dead people coming out of their tombs and graves after hearing him speak a few words?

 

[Taz]

So he’s written about his theory, that doesn’t mean that science has accepted it as fact. Please try again.

Yes, it is the leading explanation for the beginning of the universe. There are no other models which explain how the universe began without violating the laws of thermodynamics. Not to mention it's predictions match what we see. There is one final match that they are working to prove but they do not have a detector built yet.

So you admit that it’s not fact. Good for you.

I'll let you know when I want the opinion of a cable repairman. Fair enough?

Cable Guy with Jim Carey

Probably more like Larry...






























...if Larry were gay.

So like Jesus then.

 

[ding]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

I hate to be the one to tell you but any story that starts with "In the beginning" just like "Once upon a time" and then introduces a talking serpent is a fairy tale with a moral teaching.

That’s the ticket. Be proud of your militant atheism. Unfortunately no. It’s not a fairytale. It’s an allegorical account of world history and wisdoms and knowledge they deemed important enough to pass down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. Too bad you don’t understand the meaning of these accounts.

 

[ding]

Yes, it is the leading explanation for the beginning of the universe. There are no other models which explain how the universe began without violating the laws of thermodynamics. Not to mention it's predictions match what we see. There is one final match that they are working to prove but they do not have a detector built yet.

So you admit that it’s not fact. Good for you.

I'll let you know when I want the opinion of a cable repairman. Fair enough?

Cable Guy with Jim Carey

Probably more like Larry...






























...if Larry were gay.

So like Jesus then.

Feel free to ask him.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Survival, by the way, is empirically proven to be the greatest organizing principle. This has been examined, empirically. When survival is at stake, folks who otherwise wouldnt come together do so, almost every single time. its as close to 100% as it gets, whereas virtues are argued about and can also divide. When survival is at stake, it takes a hero to sacrifice their own life for the life of another.

Thanks to human empathy, there are lots of heroes. Salami and bacon, amen.

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

I wouldn't bet the farm or my life on the empathy of an athiest or state baby.

Probably not on an alleged "Christian" either, unless I knew them really well.

 

[sealybobo]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

Ok I’ll give you there was a nice man name Jesus born 2000 years ago. Jews Mormons muslims Hindu Buddhist agree with that too.

Ugh.. There were lots of nice men 2000 years ago, well, probably at least a few.

Why do you suppose that this particular nice man, who was despised according to the story, was singled out to be the subject of a fantastical story about dead people coming out of their tombs and graves after hearing him speak a few words?

He spoke up. He was a big mouth trouble making rabble rouser

 

[sealybobo]

Survival, by the way, is empirically proven to be the greatest organizing principle. This has been examined, empirically. When survival is at stake, folks who otherwise wouldnt come together do so, almost every single time. its as close to 100% as it gets, whereas virtues are argued about and can also divide. When survival is at stake, it takes a hero to sacrifice their own life for the life of another.

Thanks to human empathy, there are lots of heroes. Salami and bacon, amen.

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

I wouldn't bet the farm or my life on the empathy of an athiest or state baby.

Probably not on an alleged "Christian" either, unless I knew them really well.

We are overpopulated and over consuming. We have kids looking to be adopted.

Faggotry is Mother Nature’s way

 

[sealybobo]

Seems like the Bible would have mentioned this "no thing" concept once or twice. What is said is The Creator.

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

I hate to be the one to tell you but any story that starts with "In the beginning" just like "Once upon a time" and then introduces a talking serpent is a fairy tale with a moral teaching.

That’s the ticket. Be proud of your militant atheism. Unfortunately no. It’s not a fairytale. It’s an allegorical account of world history and wisdoms and knowledge they deemed important enough to pass down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. Too bad you don’t understand the meaning of these accounts.

So similar to a fairytale.

The only difference between the Jesus myth and fairytales is Jesus supposedly happened 2000 years ago and fairytales happen a long time ago (not specific) in a land far far away.

 

[G.T.]

Survival, by the way, is empirically proven to be the greatest organizing principle. This has been examined, empirically. When survival is at stake, folks who otherwise wouldnt come together do so, almost every single time. its as close to 100% as it gets, whereas virtues are argued about and can also divide. When survival is at stake, it takes a hero to sacrifice their own life for the life of another.

Thanks to human empathy, there are lots of heroes. Salami and bacon, amen.

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

I wouldn't bet the farm or my life on the empathy of an athiest or state baby.

Probably not on an alleged "Christian" either, unless I knew them really well.

Who said faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

Homosexuality occurs randomly & naturally in the entire animal kingdom, but that doesnt mean that its a means of survival and Im not sure why anyone would think that. Evolutionary theory is that its RANDOM genetic mutation, not GUIDED.

 

[Unkotare]

Survival, by the way, is empirically proven to be the greatest organizing principle. This has been examined, empirically. When survival is at stake, folks who otherwise wouldnt come together do so, almost every single time. its as close to 100% as it gets, whereas virtues are argued about and can also divide. When survival is at stake, it takes a hero to sacrifice their own life for the life of another.

Thanks to human empathy, there are lots of heroes. Salami and bacon, amen.

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

I wouldn't bet the farm or my life on the empathy of an athiest or state baby.

Probably not on an alleged "Christian" either, unless I knew them really well.

We are overpopulated and over consuming. We have kids looking to be adopted.

Faggotry is Mother Nature’s way

We are not ‘overpopulated,’ and your homosexuality has nothing to do with demographics.

 

[G.T.]

Survival, by the way, is empirically proven to be the greatest organizing principle. This has been examined, empirically. When survival is at stake, folks who otherwise wouldnt come together do so, almost every single time. its as close to 100% as it gets, whereas virtues are argued about and can also divide. When survival is at stake, it takes a hero to sacrifice their own life for the life of another.

Thanks to human empathy, there are lots of heroes. Salami and bacon, amen.

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

I wouldn't bet the farm or my life on the empathy of an athiest or state baby.

Probably not on an alleged "Christian" either, unless I knew them really well.

We are overpopulated and over consuming. We have kids looking to be adopted.

Faggotry is Mother Nature’s way

We are not ‘overpopulated,’ and your homosexuality has nothing to do with demographics.

That myth is repeated by a LOT of people. We arent even CLOSE to capacity. Not even a FRACTION of it.

 

[Marion Morrison]

By what scale (standard) do Atheists measure their morality by?

 

[G.T.]

By what scale (standard) do Atheists measure their morality by?

Human suffering.

How about you, what's your scale? Lets hope its not the God of Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other horrific scripture. Yikes!

 

[hobelim]

Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis is the allegorical account of the creation of space and time and tells us that man is a product of that creation. Man came from dust and man will return to dust.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

You guys tell us there’s something wrong with us atheists for not believing the Bible. You come up with all kinds of irrational reasons why we don’t buy it.

Well why isn’t it obvious to the muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Hindus, jews etc?

How come they aren’t Christians too?

No. I am telling you it is idiotic to call it a fairytale. But please do keep doing it because I don't mind correcting it.

Ok I’ll give you there was a nice man name Jesus born 2000 years ago. Jews Mormons muslims Hindu Buddhist agree with that too.

Ugh.. There were lots of nice men 2000 years ago, well, probably at least a few.

Why do you suppose that this particular nice man, who was despised according to the story, was singled out to be the subject of a fantastical story about dead people coming out of their tombs and graves after hearing him speak a few words?

He spoke up. He was a big mouth trouble making rabble rouser

Yeah, but there were many big mouth trouble making rabble rousers back then who didn't rise up against their own religion. Ask Rosie. They were clamoring for an uprising against the romans. A Jewish holy war. but not Jesus.

Jesus instead openly rejected more than a thousand years of Jewish traditions dating back to the death of Moses, denouncing widely respected and beloved holy men who were famous for their acts of charity, doctors, lawyers, and their blind followers suggesting that they, the oppressed, should focus on their own shortcomings and love their brutal foreign oppressors. People high and low hated his guts. Everyone questioned his sanity. Why would anyone elevate him to the status of messiah, messenger of a holy God after he was unanimously condemned by the religious authorities as a traitor and executed as a seditious petty criminal by the Romans?

Some very dedicated religious experts and luminaries still scoff at the idea that this particularly offensive rabble rouser was the messiah.

Why would anyone think that Jesus was the messiah way back then much less an incarnation of God himself to this day??

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In what way does faggotry and buttsex promote survival?

Nobody is implying it does, genius. What aids survival is a social contract, by which we leave people the fuck alone to be happy.