Can Atheists be Moral?

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

You seem quite confused on the definition of Nihilism if that is your argument.

Not at all, because I don't defer only to the narrow definition that includes rejecting religion. I defer more to rhe philosophical definition, who focuses on minimizing the importance and purpose of the only life we have. And you revelationists do that in spades.

And thanks for calling me a moron, very nice of you

I was referring to Dinesh, not you.

Christians aren't to disregard this life- not at all.

And yet they often do...actual senators on the floor of congress, tossing aside earthly science in favor of religious nuttery.... People saying they should surrender everything to god, including their children's healthcare and stewardship of the planet...

So, the issue isn't what you WISH Christian's would do, it's what they actually do. And, as an atheist, at no point in my life have I ever felt nihilistic. And I certainly have the same experiences as anyone else who claims to have spirituality...I just don't ascribe them to magical nonsense.

There is nothing in Christianity explicitly diminishing the importance of life- rather, we are encouraged to have faith in God to provide for us, and to be thankful and gracious for all that he does. I do this all the time when it comes to my career, studies, relationships, etc. I believe that everything that comes into effect in this world has come forth via the arbiter of all things (God).

You atheists seem to have a problem with that because of your own egocentric disposition which convinces you that attributing your life providence to a creator/higher power undermines your own individuality and agency. That is not our problem.

Surrendering to God does not equate with abandoning the pursuit of strong policies. You are judging an entire doctrine because of the parochialism observed by a handful of people in positions of power. How is that any more fair than when Christians blame Atheism for the Communist crimes of the 20th century? As I recall, many Atheists detest such a thing.

 

[Hollie]

So can you! You used to all be against gays. Many of you are not.

And half of you are pro choice. How do you explain that?

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

I always find it funny when Christians define out of Christianity those Christians who are perceived as not Christian enough or who are the wrong kind of Christians.

Claiming to be a Christian yet going against Biblical teachings on things which are core to life itself= you are not a Christian.

No, I’m not Christian. I suppose if I was, I would be one of those Christians you would define out of Christianity as I am perceived as not Christian enough, or, the wrong kind of Christian.

It seems I made a turn into the Christian Cul-de-sac of judgemental Christianity.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Your point is baseless. We *know* that Muslims who believe in the death penalty for apostasy are, in fact, genuine Muslims-

And we know Christians who believe in slavery and killing infidels are geniune Christians. It says so right there in the book. Joseph Kony says, "you're doing it wrong".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You atheists seem to have a problem with that because of your own egocentric disposition

And yet, interestingly enough, only one of us is actually talking about himself when pretending to talk about others. You claim people will be nihilistic as a result of atheism, only because YOU would be. So, in an egocentric effort and error, you say everyone else must be like this (instead of just speaking for yourself).

And what of the ultimate egocentricity? I.E., the proposal that you are divinely special, and that we primates go to special heaven just for us and we live forever and the entire universe was made for us...? Egocentricism does not get any more pervasive and grandiose than this.

So, it is really only YOU who would be nihilistic without the religious fairy tale...YOU who would be amoral without a bronze age instruction book...only YOU who would be lost in endeavours of art, music, and passionate, "spiritual" experience, without your bronze age fairy tale...YOU who operate from egocentricism...

That's a YOU problem. Speak for yourself.

 

[sealybobo]

Christian here- Atheists can indeed be more.

But their morality is purely subjective. In the absence of an objective moral framework, Nihilism can easily become the norm if the subjectivity of atheist morals and ethics are held paramount.

So can you! You used to all be against gays. Many of you are not.

And half of you are pro choice. How do you explain that?

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

People claim we are a Christian nation. Between the fake Christians, atheists, Muslims, Mormons, Jews and Hindu I wonder how many real Christians actually exist.

I think it’s very important so many people don’t buy the basic premise that Jesus was the messiah.

 

[sealybobo]

So can you! You used to all be against gays. Many of you are not.

And half of you are pro choice. How do you explain that?

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

I always find it funny when Christians define out of Christianity those Christians who are perceived as not Christian enough or who are the wrong kind of Christians.

Claiming to be a Christian yet going against Biblical teachings on things which are core to life itself= you are not a Christian.

Lots of Christians are pro choice. I guess only half the so called Christians are actually Christians.

So they aren’t going to heaven right?

 

[sealybobo]

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

I always find it funny when Christians define out of Christianity those Christians who are perceived as not Christian enough or who are the wrong kind of Christians.

Claiming to be a Christian yet going against Biblical teachings on things which are core to life itself= you are not a Christian.

No, I’m not Christian. I suppose if I was, I would be one of those Christians you would define out of Christianity as I am perceived as not Christian enough, or, the wrong kind of Christian.

It seems I made a turn into the Christian Cul-de-sac of judgemental Christianity.

So don’t waste your time. You wouldn’t go to heaven and would go to hell anyways.

Ok so now i will really laugh if he tells me that the fake Christians still go to heaven. Or if he tries to say those fake Christians don’t burn in hell for all eternity. If he says either then he isn’t a real Christian either. Just another cherry picker.

The church doesn’t care if you are a real Christian. Your money is just as good so they don’t tell you you’re wasting your time not doing it right.

And if that’s really how they feel isn’t it their moral obligation to tell the fakers?

 

[sealybobo]

Note how many people who repeat that falsehood also support abortion and other aspects of the democrat death cult.

.

Exactly. Some idiots just repeat anything they’re told, and that particular lie fits the general leftist hostility towards human life.

Note how many people who repeat that falsehood also support abortion and other aspects of the democrat death cult.

... and that particular lie fits the general leftist hostility towards human life.


and you disdain all other life in regard to your own......

What makes you say that?

.

What makes you say that?

where is habitat, only 200 years from today ... of course orientals have never had a conscious - been killing any whales lately.

What is unkotare trying to say? I see you doing all the talking. He pushes buttons but never says anything.

Unkotare what are you trying to say?

No one was talking to you, asshole.

No one except me ever talks to you. I’m your only frienemy

 

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

You atheists seem to have a problem with that because of your own egocentric disposition

And yet, interestingly enough, only one of us is actually talking about himself when pretending to talk about others. You claim people will be nihilistic as a result of atheism, only because YOU would be. So, in an egocentric effort and error, you say everyone else must be like this (instead of just speaking for yourself).

And what of the ultimate egocentricity? I.E., the proposal that you are divinely special, and that we primates go to special heaven just for us and we live forever and the entire universe was made for us...? Egocentricism does not get any more pervasive and grandiose than this.

So, it is really only YOU who would be nihilistic without the religious fairy tale...YOU who would be amoral without a bronze age instruction book...only YOU who would be lost in endeavours of art, music, and passionate, "spiritual" experience, without your bronze age fairy tale...YOU who operate from egocentricism...

That's a YOU problem. Speak for yourself.

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

 

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

I always find it funny when Christians define out of Christianity those Christians who are perceived as not Christian enough or who are the wrong kind of Christians.

Claiming to be a Christian yet going against Biblical teachings on things which are core to life itself= you are not a Christian.

Lots of Christians are pro choice. I guess only half the so called Christians are actually Christians.

So they aren’t going to heaven right?

I have no insight on what awaits those individuals when they are set to meet their creator.

What makes you think I can determine that?

 

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

Christian here- Atheists can indeed be more.

But their morality is purely subjective. In the absence of an objective moral framework, Nihilism can easily become the norm if the subjectivity of atheist morals and ethics are held paramount.

So can you! You used to all be against gays. Many of you are not.

And half of you are pro choice. How do you explain that?

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

People claim we are a Christian nation. Between the fake Christians, atheists, Muslims, Mormons, Jews and Hindu I wonder how many real Christians actually exist.

I think it’s very important so many people don’t buy the basic premise that Jesus was the messiah.

Our foundation was based on Judeo-Christian values, yes.

But at the end of the day, America is just a nation with its flaws (and many of them). Only God is sovereign over the world.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Our foundation was based on Judeo-Christian values, yes.

No.

 

[sealybobo]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

His life does only have meaning to him, his family and friends and his community. Then his countrymen. Then to the human race.

I wish we valued the lives of the million people we killed invading Iraq but their lives had no meaning to us Christian Americans. Not enough to lose sleep over

 

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

I never contended that you do suffer.

But my issue is precisely with those among the Atheists who wish to claim that an absence of a God-oriented view can still provide objective meaning to one's life.

 

[D'Souza.SoldierOfChrist]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

His life does only have meaning to him, his family and friends and his community. Then his countrymen. Then to the human race.

I wish we valued the lives of the million people we killed invading Iraq but their lives had no meaning to us Christian Americans. Not enough to lose sleep over

You see, that's where my faith will never relinquish me.

My friends, family, community, country and the whole of mankind are but a temporal ordinance. Passing by in this world.

But my relationship with God is eternal. Even if/when the aforesaid friends, family, etc. phases pass on by, God will remain firm.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I never contended that you do suffer.

...from that notion. You forgot the rest. And you most certainly comtended this with your relation of atheism and nihilism, in general.

But my issue is precisely with those among the Atheists who wish to claim that an absence of a God-oriented view can still provide objective meaning to one's life.

I claim it. The only "meaning" of my appearance on the planet results from nature deciding it was advantageous for DNA to form large sacks of water around itself to move over distance and to find other DNA with which to combine. So, that's the "why we are here?" answer.

But the very objective meaning I take from my actual life since is that I like being alive. I like my kids, my hobbies, the arts, other people, etc.

 

[sealybobo]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

I never contended that you do suffer.

But my issue is precisely with those among the Atheists who wish to claim that an absence of a God-oriented view can still provide objective meaning to one's life.

I have positively affected hundreds of peoples lives. I’d like to think I made this planet a better place. What other meaning do you need?

I enjoyed my life. I was lucky to be born. My brother has two kids so I don’t have to worry about my gene living on. My brother took care of that.

The human species wants to live as long as possible. Are you anti science? Maybe your meaning or purpose is to doom us with the planet when it dies and we’re stuck here because you didn’t see the importance of space travel.

So while you’re worrying about your soul living forever I think it’s more important that our ancestors live forever.

 

[sealybobo]

No, I could still enjoy the whims and pleasures that life has to offer in the absence of my beliefs.

But they wouldn't be as fulfilling for you. Only you. You speak for you.

However, I couldn't succumb to the mental gymnastics and convince myself (and/or others) that my life actually has objective and intrinsic meaning. It wouldn't. It would only matter to me.

Okay, fair enough. I don't particularly suffer from that notion, and you should not assume that i or anyone does.

His life does only have meaning to him, his family and friends and his community. Then his countrymen. Then to the human race.

I wish we valued the lives of the million people we killed invading Iraq but their lives had no meaning to us Christian Americans. Not enough to lose sleep over

You see, that's where my faith will never relinquish me.

My friends, family, community, country and the whole of mankind are but a temporal ordinance. Passing by in this world.

But my relationship with God is eternal. Even if/when the aforesaid friends, family, etc. phases pass on by, God will remain firm.

Yes you will always have god.

 

[hobelim]

So can you! You used to all be against gays. Many of you are not.

And half of you are pro choice. How do you explain that?

Christians are still against the *activities* of Homosexuals- but we are commanded to love the sinner nonetheless.

And by Christians, obviously I mean true, committed Bible-believing individuals.

What you are describing is the attitude of liberals who desperately wish to reconcile Christianity with progressive ideas. No such reconciliation can take shape. Most of these apparent "Christians" often tend to divert themselves from the faith as their days go on.

So they aren’t really christians. Your numbers are inflated.

They are culturally Christians, but spiritually adrift.

Why is it so important what the "numbers" reflect? The Biblical worldview isn't a numbers game.

I always find it funny when Christians define out of Christianity those Christians who are perceived as not Christian enough or who are the wrong kind of Christians.

Claiming to be a Christian yet going against Biblical teachings on things which are core to life itself= you are not a Christian.

Hmmm. Thats some mighty bad news for Christians.