Can Atheists be Moral?

[hobelim]

Decoder Ring Fallacy -

You could get away with describing much of scripture as metaphor, because it seems ridiculous.

What you're incapable of doing, is explaining why the Bible is internally contradictory when it simply names a City where something took place, or a Mountain, etc. and there's countless things it gets completely wrong.

lol... You might as well ask my why there is a talking puppet in Pinocchio when there is no such thing, why there is no archeological evidence for the town of the boy who cried wolf, how could three little pigs build houses.

In scripture any apparent contradiction or miracle that contradicts what every grade school kid already knows to be true about reality, animals can't talk, dead people stay dead, etc., is like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value is buried and hidden just like any moral teaching of a fairy tale which is not explicitly revealed and requires some intelligent thought to grasp.

Further, what you're really, reallllly not going to be able to answer, is what is means for a "Law" to "come into the world" and why that's any different from a Congressman scribbling onto a piece of paper and bringing it to a Vote.

Why would I even try to answer a confused question in your mind?

Human archetypes are observed by living, not revealed in the Bible. The Bible talk fanciful shit for folks like you who imagine that we'd be lost somehow without the metaphors. Jordan Peterson was defeated on this exact notion, in debate.

First you try and dismiss scripture because science says something different about the beginning of the universe which is an entirely different subject as I have shown, and then you try to dismiss the fact that they were using metaphors to educate children as if that was too simple an explanation even though they were simple people which is why you know and I agreed they weren't speaking in scientific terms.

WTF.

How is a talking serpent anything other than a human archetype?

Who says they are not revealed in the bible exactly like they are revealed to any living grade school kid who calls someone a pig?

Were the authors not living? were the intended readers not living?

This is completely fallacious - they wrote factually contradictory statements to give you a treasure map to describe an overtly obvious human archetype?

And you're their #1 fan, it seems.

THAT'S as magically wishful thinking as thinking Jesus is in some wine and crackers - you think that view is BETTER?

LOLLLLlllll!!!!

Hopefully you knew that Historians can point to specific Geo-Political reasons that the Bible was written as a propoganda piece.

No, you were unaware of these things and thought it was enlightening philosophy and a treasure map? LOL

They used it to bring people to literal arms, and thought it was for the biblical god they thought had actually sent jesus christ to die in the name of. They claim to have eye-witnesses. That's testimony, real or fake, not an attempt at metaphor.

Propaganda.

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

lol...You are lost without understanding biblical metaphors.

You call talking serpents holy men. You think that the demonically possessed are dedicated believers. You think that the flesh of swine is a good thing to teach your children, and anyone who discovers something of value hidden in scripture is a madman.

What would you call someone who can't grasp the teachings of a bronze age fairy tale?

Genius? lol.... I don't think so..

 

[G.T.]

Decoder Ring Fallacy -

You could get away with describing much of scripture as metaphor, because it seems ridiculous.

What you're incapable of doing, is explaining why the Bible is internally contradictory when it simply names a City where something took place, or a Mountain, etc. and there's countless things it gets completely wrong.

lol... You might as well ask my why there is a talking puppet in Pinocchio when there is no such thing, why there is no archeological evidence for the town of the boy who cried wolf, how could three little pigs build houses.

In scripture any apparent contradiction or miracle that contradicts what every grade school kid already knows to be true about reality, animals can't talk, dead people stay dead, etc., is like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value is buried and hidden just like any moral teaching of a fairy tale which is not explicitly revealed and requires some intelligent thought to grasp.

Further, what you're really, reallllly not going to be able to answer, is what is means for a "Law" to "come into the world" and why that's any different from a Congressman scribbling onto a piece of paper and bringing it to a Vote.

Why would I even try to answer a confused question in your mind?

Human archetypes are observed by living, not revealed in the Bible. The Bible talk fanciful shit for folks like you who imagine that we'd be lost somehow without the metaphors. Jordan Peterson was defeated on this exact notion, in debate.

First you try and dismiss scripture because science says something different about the beginning of the universe which is an entirely different subject as I have shown, and then you try to dismiss the fact that they were using metaphors to educate children as if that was too simple an explanation even though they were simple people which is why you know and I agreed they weren't speaking in scientific terms.

WTF.

How is a talking serpent anything other than a human archetype?

Who says they are not revealed in the bible exactly like they are revealed to any living grade school kid who calls someone a pig?

Were the authors not living? were the intended readers not living?

This is completely fallacious - they wrote factually contradictory statements to give you a treasure map to describe an overtly obvious human archetype?

And you're their #1 fan, it seems.

THAT'S as magically wishful thinking as thinking Jesus is in some wine and crackers - you think that view is BETTER?

LOLLLLlllll!!!!

Hopefully you knew that Historians can point to specific Geo-Political reasons that the Bible was written as a propoganda piece.

No, you were unaware of these things and thought it was enlightening philosophy and a treasure map? LOL

They used it to bring people to literal arms, and thought it was for the biblical god they thought had actually sent jesus christ to die in the name of. They claim to have eye-witnesses. That's testimony, real or fake, not an attempt at metaphor.

Propaganda.

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

lol...You are lost without understanding biblical metaphors.

You call talking serpents holy men. You think that the demonically possessed are dedicated believers. You think that the flesh of swine is a good thing to teach your children, and anyone who discovers something of value hidden in scripture is a madman.

What would you call someone who can't grasp the teachings of a bronze age fairy tale?

Now you're onto lying.

I called no such serpent holy men. Didn't even imply it.

I called nobody a dedicated anything - didn't even imply it.

Demonic is a made-up concept - your usage of the term is ill conceived.

I don't teach my kids anything about the flesh of swine.


What would I call someone who lies so much to exacerbate a magically thinking decoder ring view of the bible to apologize for its explicit contradictions....

I would call that person somebody who can't even grasp the story of pinnocchio, and why it's probably not a good idea in discourse to lie so much.

 

[hobelim]

Decoder Ring Fallacy -

You could get away with describing much of scripture as metaphor, because it seems ridiculous.

What you're incapable of doing, is explaining why the Bible is internally contradictory when it simply names a City where something took place, or a Mountain, etc. and there's countless things it gets completely wrong.

lol... You might as well ask my why there is a talking puppet in Pinocchio when there is no such thing, why there is no archeological evidence for the town of the boy who cried wolf, how could three little pigs build houses.

In scripture any apparent contradiction or miracle that contradicts what every grade school kid already knows to be true about reality, animals can't talk, dead people stay dead, etc., is like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value is buried and hidden just like any moral teaching of a fairy tale which is not explicitly revealed and requires some intelligent thought to grasp.

Further, what you're really, reallllly not going to be able to answer, is what is means for a "Law" to "come into the world" and why that's any different from a Congressman scribbling onto a piece of paper and bringing it to a Vote.

Why would I even try to answer a confused question in your mind?

Human archetypes are observed by living, not revealed in the Bible. The Bible talk fanciful shit for folks like you who imagine that we'd be lost somehow without the metaphors. Jordan Peterson was defeated on this exact notion, in debate.

First you try and dismiss scripture because science says something different about the beginning of the universe which is an entirely different subject as I have shown, and then you try to dismiss the fact that they were using metaphors to educate children as if that was too simple an explanation even though they were simple people which is why you know and I agreed they weren't speaking in scientific terms.

WTF.

How is a talking serpent anything other than a human archetype?

Who says they are not revealed in the bible exactly like they are revealed to any living grade school kid who calls someone a pig?

Were the authors not living? were the intended readers not living?

This is completely fallacious - they wrote factually contradictory statements to give you a treasure map to describe an overtly obvious human archetype?

And you're their #1 fan, it seems.

THAT'S as magically wishful thinking as thinking Jesus is in some wine and crackers - you think that view is BETTER?

LOLLLLlllll!!!!

Hopefully you knew that Historians can point to specific Geo-Political reasons that the Bible was written as a propoganda piece.

No, you were unaware of these things and thought it was enlightening philosophy and a treasure map? LOL

They used it to bring people to literal arms, and thought it was for the biblical god they thought had actually sent jesus christ to die in the name of. They claim to have eye-witnesses. That's testimony, real or fake, not an attempt at metaphor.

Propaganda.

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

lol...You are lost without understanding biblical metaphors.

You call talking serpents holy men. You think that the demonically possessed are dedicated believers. You think that the flesh of swine is a good thing to teach your children, and anyone who discovers something of value hidden in scripture is a madman.

What would you call someone who can't grasp the teachings of a bronze age fairy tale?

Now you're onto lying.

I called no such serpent holy men. Didn't even imply it.

I called nobody a dedicated anything - didn't even imply it.

Demonic is a made-up concept - your usage of the term is ill conceived.

I don't teach my kids anything about the flesh of swine.


What would I call someone who lies so much to exacerbate a magically thinking decoder ring view of the bible to apologize for its explicit contradictions....

I would call that person somebody who can't even grasp the story of pinnocchio, and why it's probably not a good idea in discourse to lie so much.

You claimed the authors and readers actually believed that snakes could talk. Where do you get that? These people lived in tents.

If you took any 4 year old child in the southwest who can't read, doesn't know the first thing about science and asked him if snakes could talk he might say, " Yes, when they rattle their tail, that means they are about to bite." But if you said, "yes, very good, but can they talk like people do," they would answer, "No, only people can talk with words. What are you a fucking idiot?"

 

[G.T.]

To demonstrate the self-deception Hobelim is experiencing, let's watch him not answer any direct questions. It's necessarily the case that he won't, because it's just not possible for him to do so.

He won't, of course, and the same goes for Jordan Peterson. What he's doing, is trying to invent a new category of truth - which is what Peterson calls "metaphorical truth," to smuggle the ideals of the Bible into reality unnecessarily...... when a discussion of how ridiculous the Bible really is can't be handled directly.

Question #1 - How would Hobelim, personally, define God?

Question #2 - Not allegorically, not metaphorically - but literally, does Hobelim believe that defined God exists?

Dip, duck, dodge - - I know why. It's okay. Nobody in your shoes engages in good faith. I'd answer any questions, directly and in good faith. The difference between us is that I'm not inside of some self-deluded bullshit to apologize for the Bible.

 

[G.T.]

Decoder Ring Fallacy -

You could get away with describing much of scripture as metaphor, because it seems ridiculous.

What you're incapable of doing, is explaining why the Bible is internally contradictory when it simply names a City where something took place, or a Mountain, etc. and there's countless things it gets completely wrong.

lol... You might as well ask my why there is a talking puppet in Pinocchio when there is no such thing, why there is no archeological evidence for the town of the boy who cried wolf, how could three little pigs build houses.

In scripture any apparent contradiction or miracle that contradicts what every grade school kid already knows to be true about reality, animals can't talk, dead people stay dead, etc., is like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value is buried and hidden just like any moral teaching of a fairy tale which is not explicitly revealed and requires some intelligent thought to grasp.

Further, what you're really, reallllly not going to be able to answer, is what is means for a "Law" to "come into the world" and why that's any different from a Congressman scribbling onto a piece of paper and bringing it to a Vote.

Why would I even try to answer a confused question in your mind?

Human archetypes are observed by living, not revealed in the Bible. The Bible talk fanciful shit for folks like you who imagine that we'd be lost somehow without the metaphors. Jordan Peterson was defeated on this exact notion, in debate.

First you try and dismiss scripture because science says something different about the beginning of the universe which is an entirely different subject as I have shown, and then you try to dismiss the fact that they were using metaphors to educate children as if that was too simple an explanation even though they were simple people which is why you know and I agreed they weren't speaking in scientific terms.

WTF.

How is a talking serpent anything other than a human archetype?

Who says they are not revealed in the bible exactly like they are revealed to any living grade school kid who calls someone a pig?

Were the authors not living? were the intended readers not living?

This is completely fallacious - they wrote factually contradictory statements to give you a treasure map to describe an overtly obvious human archetype?

And you're their #1 fan, it seems.

THAT'S as magically wishful thinking as thinking Jesus is in some wine and crackers - you think that view is BETTER?

LOLLLLlllll!!!!

Hopefully you knew that Historians can point to specific Geo-Political reasons that the Bible was written as a propoganda piece.

No, you were unaware of these things and thought it was enlightening philosophy and a treasure map? LOL

They used it to bring people to literal arms, and thought it was for the biblical god they thought had actually sent jesus christ to die in the name of. They claim to have eye-witnesses. That's testimony, real or fake, not an attempt at metaphor.

Propaganda.

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

lol...You are lost without understanding biblical metaphors.

You call talking serpents holy men. You think that the demonically possessed are dedicated believers. You think that the flesh of swine is a good thing to teach your children, and anyone who discovers something of value hidden in scripture is a madman.

What would you call someone who can't grasp the teachings of a bronze age fairy tale?

Now you're onto lying.

I called no such serpent holy men. Didn't even imply it.

I called nobody a dedicated anything - didn't even imply it.

Demonic is a made-up concept - your usage of the term is ill conceived.

I don't teach my kids anything about the flesh of swine.


What would I call someone who lies so much to exacerbate a magically thinking decoder ring view of the bible to apologize for its explicit contradictions....

I would call that person somebody who can't even grasp the story of pinnocchio, and why it's probably not a good idea in discourse to lie so much.

You claimed the authors and readers actually believed that snakes could talk. Where do you get that? These people lived in tents.

If you took any 4 year old child in the southwest who can't read, doesn't know the first thing about science and asked him of snakes could talk he might say, " Yes, when they rattle their tail, that means they are about to bite.: But if you said, yes, very good, but can they talk like people do, they would answer, "No, only people can talk with words. What are you a fucking idiot?"

I made no such claim. Another lie.

The authors of the Bible wrote a propaganda piece to convince folks that a christian god exists, I'd never presume that they BELIEVED what they had written -

And it convinced folks that a Christian God exists.

There, another dispelled Hobelim lie.

Would you like to tell the truth, when addressing me Pinocchio?

 

[G.T.]

When the Bible gets things wrong via internal contradiction...

Such as - discrepancies in the order of creation between Genesis 1 & Genesis 2 - -

Is it more rational to presume:

A. It was written clumsily by Bronze Aged Propagandists.
B. It got these tiny, unnoticeable to the un-skeptical eye ....things wrong, ON PURPOSE, to draw a treasure map for enlightened seekers like Hobelim, to bring him to the wisdom of a human archetype that anything with a rational brain and a community was already aware of without needing said bible or treasure map in the first place...and as a consequence of being written this way, has led billions of folks to literally believe in a god, a heaven and a hell and a magical jesus.....

Hmm, let me seeee....which is more rationally plausible.

B seems like the same magical thinking that leads others to eating wine and crackers - the magical thinking Hobelim hypocritically mocks.

 

[danielpalos]

...i can be as moral as any deist. Full body massage with happy ending for women, feel free to call me a liar and insist I prove it, chics.

 

[Taz]

...i can be as moral as any deist. Full body massage with happy ending for women, feel free to call me a liar and insist I prove it, chics.

Like anyone wants a sweaty beaner putting his hands on them. Better luck next time.

 

[G.T.]

...i can be as moral as any deist. Full body massage with happy ending for women, feel free to call me a liar and insist I prove it, chics.

Your level of thirst on a political messageboard anything anyone in real life should be worried about, bro?

 

[hobelim]

You claimed the authors and readers actually believed that snakes could talk. Where do you get that? These people lived in tents.

I made no such claim. Another lie.

uh huh. Never said any such thing. Right.....

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

You are dismissed.

 

[G.T.]

You claimed the authors and readers actually believed that snakes could talk. Where do you get that? These people lived in tents.

I made no such claim. Another lie.

uh huh. Never said any such thing. Right.....

Newsflash, magical thinker: The folks that existed at the TIME the Bible was written weren't using it in the way you're apologetically describing here now, as a fictional story book to describe human behavior...

Um, they actually thought it was literal and were much closer to the situation than you were.

Yes, that means the part about considering God as real, and Jesus the son of God, and it doesn't mention the writers believing it at all, like you lied about me saying...and doesnt mention snakes talking or which parts they took as literal and which parts were metaphor. Are you going to claim no Christians believe in an actual creator God that had a Son Jesus through the immaculate conception?

Thats an easily disprovable claim - there's video, verbal, written testimony affirming such faith and hundreds of thousands of Churches with it as their doctrine.

Jeepers, you bend over backwards to be wrong.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

...i can be as moral as any deist. Full body massage with happy ending for women, feel free to call me a liar and insist I prove it, chics.

Your level of thirst on a political messageboard anything anyone in real life should be worried about, bro?

So,has hobelim yet explained to you the precise, absolutely true meaning of all the Bible "metaphors"?

No?

Don't hold your breath.

 

[G.T.]

...i can be as moral as any deist. Full body massage with happy ending for women, feel free to call me a liar and insist I prove it, chics.

Your level of thirst on a political messageboard anything anyone in real life should be worried about, bro?

So,has hobelim yet explained to you the precise, absolutely true meaning of all the Bible "metaphors"?

No?

Don't hold your breath.

He doesn't engage in good faith - he mocks the believers in crackers and wine while at the same time engaging in the equally magical thinking that the biblical contradictions were written "on purpose" to paint a treasure map to metaphorical truths about human archetypes that anyone with an above 70iq already knows and understands - but only the super smawwt folks with the decoder ring following the treasure map must need these archetypes revealed in the first place lol

It's totally as bananas as talking snakes and eating crackers to me.

 

[BreezeWood]

What about that whole being a Democrat thing? Forget that little bitty error, did you? Everyone on this forum knows that you are obviously a Democrat! How do you expect to explain that away?

Being a Democrat is some very evil shit! Dude. In other words, very immoral shit.

They were nice, once upon a time.

So were the Jews, right before God stopped the human sacrifice punking of Abraham..

Mindful the moral wants to round up us democrats and put us in camps

I actually prefer liberals over libertarians. Libertarians are amoral. At least Democrats believe they are moral even though they are diametrically opposed to what is good and just.

Had to inform myself on that one.

'amoral/ immoral. Both have to do with right and wrong, but amoral means having no sense of either, like a fish, but the evil immoral describes someone who knows the difference, doesn't care, and says "mwah ha ha" while twirling a mustache. If you call someone immoral, you are saying that person knows better.'

Vocabulary.com

.

Had to inform myself on that one. - Vocabulary.com

but amoral means having no sense of either, like a fish,

like a fish ...

morals for you are defined then by humanity (whatever vocabulary.com is) throughout the universe and not the bases of the metaphysical, all things created ...

the same for Flora

the vines choice is not a matter of morality ...



.

 

[ding]

So were the Jews, right before God stopped the human sacrifice punking of Abraham..

Mindful the moral wants to round up us democrats and put us in camps

I actually prefer liberals over libertarians. Libertarians are amoral. At least Democrats believe they are moral even though they are diametrically opposed to what is good and just.

Had to inform myself on that one.

'amoral/ immoral. Both have to do with right and wrong, but amoral means having no sense of either, like a fish, but the evil immoral describes someone who knows the difference, doesn't care, and says "mwah ha ha" while twirling a mustache. If you call someone immoral, you are saying that person knows better.'

Vocabulary.com

Yes, unless they have rationalized wrong as right. And in that case they still believe in right and wrong whereas an amoral person doesn’t.

Are cats amoral? I love than for it.

Morality is a human construct. Lower level life forms can have empathy but they usually operate on instinct and impulse. Humans operate on those too but have a unique ability to override them. It’s really what the allegorical account of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is all about.

 

[ding]

What about that whole being a Democrat thing? Forget that little bitty error, did you? Everyone on this forum knows that you are obviously a Democrat! How do you expect to explain that away?

Being a Democrat is some very evil shit! Dude. In other words, very immoral shit.

They were nice, once upon a time.

So were the Jews, right before God stopped the human sacrifice punking of Abraham..

Mindful the moral wants to round up us democrats and put us in camps

I actually prefer liberals over libertarians. Libertarians are amoral. At least Democrats believe they are moral even though they are diametrically opposed to what is good and just.

It's all about personal perspective...

Not always.

 

[Mindful]

Mindful the moral wants to round up us democrats and put us in camps

I actually prefer liberals over libertarians. Libertarians are amoral. At least Democrats believe they are moral even though they are diametrically opposed to what is good and just.

Had to inform myself on that one.

'amoral/ immoral. Both have to do with right and wrong, but amoral means having no sense of either, like a fish, but the evil immoral describes someone who knows the difference, doesn't care, and says "mwah ha ha" while twirling a mustache. If you call someone immoral, you are saying that person knows better.'

Vocabulary.com

Yes, unless they have rationalized wrong as right. And in that case they still believe in right and wrong whereas an amoral person doesn’t.

Are cats amoral? I love than for it.

Morality is a human construct. Lower level life forms can have empathy but they usually operate on instinct and impulse. Humans operate on those too but have a unique ability to override them. It’s really what the allegorical account of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is all about.

Okay. I can go with that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Light being spoken into existence into a world that was without shape or form and void is about the law coming into the world like a light to the nations. Light that separates the darkness by teaching people to distinguish between clean and unclean, right and wrong, true and false, good and evil, life and death.

- into a world that was without shape or form and void is about the law coming into the world like a light to the nations.

you keep saying that - if even remotely true, for physiology that would be the moment for the first life template, the beginning of Garden Earth and nothing to do with humanity ... christian.

not to mention the preceding development / configurations for the elements of the periodic table.

 

[ding]

You should know better.

Than what?

Just wanted to let you know that its probably a waste of time to argue about morality with a person who is an antisemite Monday through Saturday and then on Sunday begs God for forgiveness for being such an asshole during the week and then to show God how sorry he is for his sins, celebrates the torture and death of a Jew.


Might as well debate trump, who always tells it like it is, about the value of honesty.

Who's that then? The 'person', not Trump.

Who was it that brought up amoral vs immoral, democrats are evil, etc.?

A wild and crazy guy who just loves to golf and gets his spiritual life from doing exactly what God promises results in death.

The dead know nothing, remember? Would you jump into a pit of snakes to look for a snack?

Oh you mean the vague ambiguous one?

There is nothing vague or ambiguous about what I believe or write. If anything the complaint against me is that I am too black or white. People like to believe there are shades of grey but it is situations which are graduated, not moral laws.

 

[Mindful]

Than what?

Just wanted to let you know that its probably a waste of time to argue about morality with a person who is an antisemite Monday through Saturday and then on Sunday begs God for forgiveness for being such an asshole during the week and then to show God how sorry he is for his sins, celebrates the torture and death of a Jew.


Might as well debate trump, who always tells it like it is, about the value of honesty.

Who's that then? The 'person', not Trump.

Who was it that brought up amoral vs immoral, democrats are evil, etc.?

A wild and crazy guy who just loves to golf and gets his spiritual life from doing exactly what God promises results in death.

The dead know nothing, remember? Would you jump into a pit of snakes to look for a snack?

Oh you mean the vague ambiguous one?

There is nothing vague or ambiguous about what I believe or write. If anything the complaint against me is that I am too black or white. People like to believe there are shades of grey but it is situations which are graduated, not moral laws.

Yes, but you won't meet halfway.