Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[LordBrownTrout]

This is amazing. Is someone really arguing for communism in this thread?

Yes.And look at the usual suspects defending it.

I know. It's incredible.

 

[The T]

This is amazing. Is someone really arguing for communism in this thread?

No one that I can see. There does seem to be a trend by some to want to shrink down government to the size where we're run by corporations. Some seem to think that having our meat inspected makes us a communist society.

Son? You're warped.

 

[inALIENable]

I would like to dissect a commie one day, cut some open to find out what kind of crap is inside such disgusting evil worthless human parasites. Some people think commies are merely immature adults, children that never grew up and matured into fully functional self supporting self-respecting adults. Most commies can be found living either in their parent basement or in welfare housing. It's sad, defective humans are pitiful.

 

[Unkotare]

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[editec]

The THEORY of communism is that there would be NO STATE because it would not be needed.

Ironically that STATELESS SOCIETY appears to be the THEORETICAL goal of radical LIBERTARIANISM, too.

One set of idealists, the communists, apparently believe mankind can attain that stateless society status through CENTRAL PLANNING, while the Libertarians think we can achieve libertopian stateless society by allowing MARKET FORCES to replace for central planning.


I think both theories fail to take human nature into account.

Not to worry about either of those ideologies, though.

Corporate Fascism is the current model of governance we're headed toward

 

[Too Tall]

Even in "utopian" communism which does not exist i am still capitalist, Like the rest of you.. Please pay attention to what i said. I said picture it in their utopian form. I am talking about them in their isolated social forms. Not the twisted regime form with a single guy killing helpless people. Do you think i would really question whether that is comparable to capitalism or any other government? In addition the communist you speak of were in "corrupted" communist governments. Just like pretty much every one to date. But this is not what i am trying to question.

I always thought that the basic difference between socialism and communism was that communism banned religion while socialism merely tolerated same. Is that true?

 

[Mac1958]

Lighten up, Francis.

.

 

[inALIENable]

I always thought that the basic difference between socialism and communism was that communism banned religion while socialism merely tolerated same. Is that true?

If there is a "dear leader" and "tithing/taxing" involved, it's someone's religion.

 

[Too Tall]

Banishment is the ultimate punishment for those who didn't follow the tribal rules. Most cases were solved by ostracism. But the tribe took care of the elderly, disabled, widows, and orphans.

And at one time? OUR Society did that unfettered...it was called Private Charity...WHY did government take on that role when it is NO WHERE to be found in the Constitution?

There's still a lot of private charity out there, it's just insufficient to meet the needs of those who lose their job, because it was shipped overseas. Or to provide some income to the disabled. In the midst of this last huge recession, food banks were running out of stock. People were losing their homes, since their banks weren't very charitable, and wound up homeless. Yes, Homelessness is still a huge problem in the richest country on earth. Most of those I run into are either old, have mental illness, or are families just down on their luck, through no fault of their own.

Welfare, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid have all been found to be Constitutional. Go read the opinions for the logic. Did you know that 100% employment is part of the Communist Manifesto?[/QUOTE]

I didn't know that, but it makes perfect sense. Under Communism there are slaves and slave owners.

 

[uscitizen]

This is amazing. Is someone really arguing for communism in this thread?

No one that I can see. There does seem to be a trend by some to want to shrink down government to the size where we're run by corporations. Some seem to think that having our meat inspected makes us a communist society.

Heaven will be a lot like communism though..

 

[skookerasbil]

This is a POLITICS forum. Nobody cares.

Anyway..........low single digit interest in going communist by the American public.

The topic is moot.

 

[grunt11b]

Going into this i would like to say that i am more on the capitalist end of the spectrum. Though going into this i am generally capitalist knowing the pros and cons of them both may change your own mind. Even though communism was originally a social thing it has also found itself as a government with one man in control. So lets try and picture it with a U.S or near that style democracy.
In essence capitalism is smaller government and communism is huge government. Now before your western instincts tell you to instantly choose capitalism think of the benefits of huge government control in your life.
In communism ideal/original communism everyone is equal. Though it almost never happens that a nation goes completely on the guidelines of a known social policy. Everyone is equal and therefore have the same things to live on and lean on their whole lives. Everyone once again must be equal in society and as a result you lose the right to earn. So in exchange for a lifetime safety net given by the government you give up the ability to earn your way up the ladder. This is because only one social class exist and that is common working class. So you have nothing to look foward to besides that life forever.
It is up to you to decide whether that is a bad or a good thing for you. As a result of this innovation potential is silenced. So is a lifelong safety net really worth losing earning rights and silencing so much potential for innovation?
Now knowing the main gains and losses of communism lets talk about capitalism.
Essentially capitalism is the exact opposite of communism in its original and purest form. In ideal/original capitalism they're is pretty much no government interference in your life. Of course they still have laws as any other nation but if you follow them you are left alone for all of your life. Capitalism is that sweet freedom you taste, love and learn about. In ideal capitalism you can go out and earn it all. You can dream big and dream about the journey there. You can be a bigshot nobody will ever forget. But with that ability to dream big and earn it all you lose that security you had with communism. And if someone earns too much capital they can decide to make everyone else work for dirt cheap money if they choose. They can dominate or without a law from it a monopoly can occur. And if you fail you have nothing to fall back on unless a generous citizen with decent capital decides to help you up.
So is the freedom of capitalism worth the possibility of ending up with nothing?
In conclusion i would like to share my opinion. I belive the risk involved with capitalism is worth the big dreams and potential unlocked that comes with it. People have bigger things to live for and more fuel to live on. Because "the dream" actually exist. In addition to the fact that the world/nation could innovate so much faster.
I would like for you to build an opinion of your own and for you to give me your feedback and for you to discuss amongst youselves.

I may be misunderstanding you here, but e fact that you even asked question speaks volumes.

 

[inALIENable]

Heaven will be a lot like communism though..

Good grief, is there nowhere or no way to escape commies and enslavement, not even in death?

 

[Intense]

The THEORY of communism is that there would be NO STATE because it would not be needed.

Ironically that STATELESS SOCIETY appears to be the THEORETICAL goal of radical LIBERTARIANISM, too.

One set of idealists, the communists, apparently believe mankind can attain that stateless society status through CENTRAL PLANNING, while the Libertarians think we can achieve libertopian stateless society by allowing MARKET FORCES to replace for central planning.


I think both theories fail to take human nature into account.

Not to worry about either of those ideologies, though.

Corporate Fascism is the current model of governance we're headed toward

What we are heading towards is State Capitalism.

 

[Intense]

This is amazing. Is someone really arguing for communism in this thread?

No one that I can see. There does seem to be a trend by some to want to shrink down government to the size where we're run by corporations. Some seem to think that having our meat inspected makes us a communist society.

Heaven will be a lot like communism though..

How? By evicting God?You have already spent too much time in alternate reality.

 

[regent]

I'm still interested in seeing a list of nations that practice or have practiced Marxian communism. Or maybe a list of nations that practice pure capitalism, or even pure socialism.
So far I cannot find any.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

And was never meant to. Period.

This is true but how do you go about changing this. Do you as I suggested have a cut off on all welfare checks? Do you turn people away from hospitals? What does one do when they have created the monster that now eats off of everyone?
It causes a conundrum of a scope that is impossible to visualize. Charity in the past handled this as best it could. Now it has become an expectation. Does a welfare check help someone get a job. No it doesn't. It creates a pool of non workers within the state who provide little or nothing.
How does this get drawn to a close?

Welfare breeds more welfare babies...

I don't believe that I have stated otherwise. What I am saying is that since the US has started this handout welfare system with so many safety nets how do they turn off the spigot without causes massive disruption. The government has created a monster of a problem.
I am in agreement that people should be participants in society and if you give some a way out they will take advantage of the system. When you offer a help for a time that turns into a lifetime style of living this becomes a problem and a drain on society at large. Now how does one cut so many off and on what day does this get done?

 

[Edgetho]

There's still a lot of private charity out there, it's just insufficient to meet the needs of those who lose their job, because it was shipped overseas. Or to provide some income to the disabled. In the midst of this last huge recession, food banks were running out of stock. People were losing their homes, since their banks weren't very charitable, and wound up homeless. Yes, Homelessness is still a huge problem in the richest country on earth. Most of those I run into are either old, have mental illness, or are families just down on their luck, through no fault of their own.

Welfare, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid have all been found to be Constitutional. Go read the opinions for the logic. Did you know that 100% employment is part of the Communist Manifesto?

And WHY shipped overseas? ASK the Statists that are taxing the Hell out of Companies...ASK the Unions that have made it hard to conduct business in this country.

Why shipped overseas? Because they can find cheap labor over there. You won't find many Americans who'll work for $1/hr and 60 hour work weeks.

Dickie, my short-petered friend, BIG Industrial companies don't move overseas because of labor rates. They just don't do it.

Do you know how many man hours there are in making your Chevy?

About thirty (30).

Now, I'm not talking about just assembling it. I'm talking TOTAL. Everything from the engine and transmission to the shocks, windshield and wipers to the carpet on the floors.

Everything. Total, including those things that are imported or are bought from other manufacturers.

Just a fact of life. You can read about it at a place call 'Harbour'. Not in the mood to find it for you.

So using your totally inaccurate figures for hourly wages, the most a manufacturer can save from out-sourcing is $1,741 per car.

But wait a second -- Then they gotta have it shipped here. Not exactly cheap, around $800. Then they gotta pay an import duty on the car of 2% -- Let's say that's around $500. Then they gotta pay for distribution.......

See, Dickie -- The left lies. It's what they do. It's all they do. It's all they know how to do.

The reasons manufacturing is moving overseas is for two VERY major reasons -- Idiotic Unions and idiotic government regulations.

Not gonna go into that right now. I just wanted to shoot a giant hole in your child-like 'cheap labor' theory.

Of course, if the left were to feed you guys anything more complicated, you couldn't comprehend it anyway

 

[Katiegrrl0]

And as long as it's voluntary? Would you volunteer your resouces to send them where that kinda behaviour is accepted and not take the rest of us down?

I don't care what everyone or anyone else decides to be or does, just count me OUT and leave me the HELL alone or there WILL be HELL on EARTH! That's what I mean. I belong to none, no one, no body. Comprehend?? Commies?

Commies are evil because they wont leave others alone. I hate commies more than anything else on Earth.

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

 

[The T]

And WHY shipped overseas? ASK the Statists that are taxing the Hell out of Companies...ASK the Unions that have made it hard to conduct business in this country.

Why shipped overseas? Because they can find cheap labor over there. You won't find many Americans who'll work for $1/hr and 60 hour work weeks.

Dickie, my short-petered friend, BIG Industrial companies don't move overseas because of labor rates. They just don't do it.

Do you know how many man hours there are in making your Chevy?

About thirty (30).

Now, I'm not talking about just assembling it. I'm talking TOTAL. Everything from the engine and transmission to the shocks, windshield and wipers to the carpet on the floors.

Everything. Total, including those things that are imported or are bought from other manufacturers.

Just a fact of life. You can read about it at a place call 'Harbour'. Not in the mood to find it for you.

So using your totally inaccurate figures for hourly wages, the most a manufacturer can save from out-sourcing is $1,741 per car.

But wait a second -- Then they gotta have it shipped here. Not exactly cheap, around $800. Then they gotta pay an import duty on the car of 2% -- Let's say that's around $500. Then they gotta pay for distribution.......

See, Dickie -- The left lies. It's what they do. It's all they do. It's all they know how to do.

The reasons manufacturing is moving overseas is for two VERY major reasons -- Idiotic Unions and idiotic government regulations.

Not gonna go into that right now. I just wanted to shoot a giant hole in your child-like 'cheap labor' theory.

Of course, if the left were to feed you guys anything more complicated, you couldn't comprehend it anyway