Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[Intense]

And as long as it's voluntary? Would you volunteer your resouces to send them where that kinda behaviour is accepted and not take the rest of us down?

I don't care what everyone or anyone else decides to be or does, just count me OUT and leave me the HELL alone or there WILL be HELL on EARTH! That's what I mean. I belong to none, no one, no body. Comprehend?? Commies?

Commies are evil because they wont leave others alone. I hate commies more than anything else on Earth.

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

 

[The T]

I don't care what everyone or anyone else decides to be or does, just count me OUT and leave me the HELL alone or there WILL be HELL on EARTH! That's what I mean. I belong to none, no one, no body. Comprehend?? Commies?

Commies are evil because they wont leave others alone. I hate commies more than anything else on Earth.

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

I don't care what everyone or anyone else decides to be or does, just count me OUT and leave me the HELL alone or there WILL be HELL on EARTH! That's what I mean. I belong to none, no one, no body. Comprehend?? Commies?

Commies are evil because they wont leave others alone. I hate commies more than anything else on Earth.

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

When did I mention a quest for power? What is your definition of progressive?

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

 

[The T]

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

I see it as a step in reversing course.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And WHY shipped overseas? ASK the Statists that are taxing the Hell out of Companies...ASK the Unions that have made it hard to conduct business in this country.

Why shipped overseas? Because they can find cheap labor over there. You won't find many Americans who'll work for $1/hr and 60 hour work weeks.

Dickie, my short-petered friend, BIG Industrial companies don't move overseas because of labor rates. They just don't do it.

Do you know how many man hours there are in making your Chevy?

About thirty (30).

Now, I'm not talking about just assembling it. I'm talking TOTAL. Everything from the engine and transmission to the shocks, windshield and wipers to the carpet on the floors.

Everything. Total, including those things that are imported or are bought from other manufacturers.

Just a fact of life. You can read about it at a place call 'Harbour'. Not in the mood to find it for you.

So using your totally inaccurate figures for hourly wages, the most a manufacturer can save from out-sourcing is $1,741 per car.

But wait a second -- Then they gotta have it shipped here. Not exactly cheap, around $800. Then they gotta pay an import duty on the car of 2% -- Let's say that's around $500. Then they gotta pay for distribution.......

See, Dickie -- The left lies. It's what they do. It's all they do. It's all they know how to do.

The reasons manufacturing is moving overseas is for two VERY major reasons -- Idiotic Unions and idiotic government regulations.

Not gonna go into that right now. I just wanted to shoot a giant hole in your child-like 'cheap labor' theory.

Of course, if the left were to feed you guys anything more complicated, you couldn't comprehend it anyway

Why have you added the qualifier?

And, why won't you go into it right now? especially the regulations. I would love to be schooled by you, an arrogant fuck if ever there was one, regarding a few SPECIFIC ( important qualifier ) examples of manufacturers moving operations overseas in order to escape "idiotic" government regulations. And. please....make sure that you can show that they are idiotic and that we'd not have some bigger fucking problems if they were not in place.

I'll understand if you can't.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

I see it as a step in reversing course.

But what candidate will make such changes. They get involved in so many issues that are meaningless to the true focus of running the nation and trying to turn things around.
How important is the abortion issue to the direction of the US? Really
How important is the issue of same sex marriage to the direction of America? Really
Issues like these and many others do nothing beyond distract from serious issues that drive the nation.
What president is going to say welfare ends on midnight of June fifteenth there will be no more welfare checks?
Not one of them.
What president will say today we are reevaluating everyone on some sort of government assistance. These are the new very strict rules. If you do not fit you are now dropped from all aid programs. You will have two months of benefits and after that you are on your own. You will need to have a job in those eight weeks. Not one of them.
Having people die on the streets and or having children out on the streets would be very unpopular. So none will do that.
Starting a massive retraining program would be the only method that would or could end the problem and everyone would balk at a billion dollar price tag.
The next problem would be trying to find jobs for all of these people. If you add millions of people to the work force where will they get jobs? That leaves another gap.
So many issues are left unspoken because they would be unpopular or create massive problems for the system.
Yes everyone would like to see change and real change but at what cost? How many people on welfare who lose there checks will turn to crime? How many will crowd into the streets as a new generation of homeless. Is everyone prepared to look at tent cities as in the Dust Bowl days?
The changes can only be small unless someone is really going to take a huge step. Even if a candidate for president wants to do these things will congress in either house left or right be willing to piss off more than half of the voters to make a stand. Of course not. They are all interested in keeping their jobs.
The situation is beyond controllable. The mammoth proportions alone would swamp the nation. You would also have riots in the streets unless there was a huge plan to end the system and get everyone working. There is no change in the foreseeable future that will make a dent in the problem.

 

[Intense]

Are you saying that the US leaves everyone alone? How many governments have they toppled over the years. It' a case of everyone finding their place and design of life and letting the others operate how they want. As soon as you force a people to live against their will you create problems. Force is never the answer for installing a specific ideology.

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

When did I mention a quest for power? What is your definition of progressive?

Here is a Link to a pretty comprehensive breakdown on Progressivism, both good and bad.

Progressivism - Discover the Networks

The progressives, Pestritto says, wanted “a thorough transformation in America’s principles of government, from a government permanently dedicated to securing individual liberty to one whose ends and scope would change to take on any and all social and economic ills.”

No matter the good that is done, you need to reconcile with the cost. You can't serve Justice by denying it. The Collective first, at all costs, does deny Individual Justice. There is no way around it.

 

[Mr.Nick]

There's a reason that first world countries have ALL chosen mixed economies. Neither extreme is workable, and neither does a real service to the masses.

OE: This post receive a neg rep by Diamond Dave

Actually, that reason would be because every civilized country in the world has a share of spoiled, halfwitted dipshits who push for communist goals out of their own ignorance and hubris. (Take a bow, Sparky, because I most certainly am referring to you and those like you.)

The real dimwits that don't understand that we're not subsistence agriculture society any longer. We're part of a world economy, and for capitalism to work in the modern world, there's a need for a central government to do things like build and manage roads, airports, seaports. The dimwits don't understand that 100% employment is impossible in our, or any western economy, so some social safety net is necessary. The dimwits don't understand that people loose pensions (think Enron) or never had the opportunity to have a job to provide it. They understand that someone in their '70s would find it impossible to find anything close to affordable healthcare. The last I saw, hospitals wouldn't take a few chickens to give you a heart transplant.

The problem is, the dimwits are too dogmatic to think through what a much smaller government would mean. It would be a government that would be easier to own by corporations, at a much lower price than it is today.

No, we don't need a central government to do those things...

Besides, public works projects are handled by the state and local governments.

Our federal government has no business regulating, hence dictating social and economic outcomes..

It's astounding how some believe we would be helpless without big government...

Humanity only survived for 100,000 years without government intervention...

 

[Intense]

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

When something is taken, something should be given back in return. How do we define a Safety Net? Needs first. We help develop skills and ability in return, at least for the willing. Day Labor at the base. X number of hours a week or month, for starters. Volunteer, Community Service.

The Entitlement mentality is killing us, something for nothing in return does not build character. I am not here to serve your addictions or indulgences, neither are you here to serve mine. This corruption needs to be addressed just like all of the rest.

 

[The T]

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

When something is taken, something should be given back in return. How do we define a Safety Net? Needs first. We help develop skills and ability in return, at least for the willing. Day Labor at the base. X number of hours a week or month, for starters. Volunteer, Community Service.

The Entitlement mentality is killing us, something for nothing in return does not build character. I am not here to serve your addictions or indulgences, neither are you here to serve mine. This corruption needs to be addressed just like all of the rest.

It's demeaning to the soul...

 

[hilbert]

Ask the victims of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, Pol Pot, Castro etc that question...

Yes, communism is really that horrible...

You are talking about "Communism", a poor political implementation of the economic theory, "communism".

Even "communism" was tried, however, by some early English settlers in North America. They almost starved. This suggests "communism" is against human nature, but executing people isn't one of its faults

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ask the victims of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, Pol Pot, Castro etc that question...

Yes, communism is really that horrible...

You are talking about "Communism", a poor political implementation of the economic theory, "communism".

Even "communism" was tried, however, by some early English settlers in North America. They almost starved. This suggests "communism" is against human nature, but executing people isn't one of its faults

Just a coincidence that mass murder follow every Communist take over

 

[regent]

Of course communism for a nation doesn't work, has never worked. The USSR dropped it quickly and implemented some other economic system and ended up with something some economists called "state capitalism."
The utility of communism is to offer people a utopian life style and for politicians to scare people. Despite the fact that no nation on this planet practices or has ever practiced communism, Republicans have used it as a scare tactic labeling everything they're against as communism or socialism. Socialism was almost as bad because if something was socialized communism was inevitable. This was used on Social Security a great deal in the Thirties and it is still used by Republicans today. Does the scare thing still work, read some of these posts.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

If the US does have a problem, it is more related to the practices of Progressive Statism, as opposed to the Principles of Liberty or Unalienable Rights. You can choose to take part in the Establishment of Justice and maintaining it, or you can ignore it in your quest for power and control.

When did I mention a quest for power? What is your definition of progressive?

Here is a Link to a pretty comprehensive breakdown on Progressivism, both good and bad.

Progressivism - Discover the Networks

The progressives, Pestritto says, wanted “a thorough transformation in America’s principles of government, from a government permanently dedicated to securing individual liberty to one whose ends and scope would change to take on any and all social and economic ills.”

No matter the good that is done, you need to reconcile with the cost. You can't serve Justice by denying it. The Collective first, at all costs, does deny Individual Justice. There is no way around it.

You make it sound as if I am for the welfare system the US has created. I don't know where you got that idea. Your nation has built a welfare kingdom. I had no say in the matter. I am not supportive in any way of that type of free hand out system.
What I have been asking on a regular basis is does anyone have any ideas on how to transition out of the mess.
Yet I find that because I represent a Communist and Socialist ideology people have this very mistaken idea that this is what we support. That certainly isn't true. I am of the opinion as are many other Socialists, if you don't work you don't eat.
The misnomer about Socialism being a welfare state is a mistake.
A society with great disparity in wealth creates what you have. If everyone can earn a living and not struggle to make ends meet you create a non welfare state. When you have poor that have been aided to the point where they will no longer work even if they can you add to the problem.

 

[The T]

You are talking about "Communism", a poor political implementation of the economic theory, "communism".

Even "communism" was tried, however, by some early English settlers in North America. They almost starved. This suggests "communism" is against human nature, but executing people isn't one of its faults

Just a coincidence that mass murder follow every Communist take over

Yep...from Stalin, Chairman Mao...to the killing fields of Pol Pot...

 

[The T]

And the starving masses in North Korea...

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Sadly the latter has a giant foothold. The people have to realize what they stand to lose if these people aren't stopped. This election is pivotal in deciding our course. The stakes are very serious in the cause of liberty.

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

When something is taken, something should be given back in return. How do we define a Safety Net? Needs first. We help develop skills and ability in return, at least for the willing. Day Labor at the base. X number of hours a week or month, for starters. Volunteer, Community Service.

The Entitlement mentality is killing us, something for nothing in return does not build character. I am not here to serve your addictions or indulgences, neither are you here to serve mine. This corruption needs to be addressed just like all of the rest.

I agree with you . The entitlement situation has caused a great deal of harm. I understand there are programs to help people get jobs. Obviously they do not function as they should or people would be working. A safety net as I see it is if you are out of work for whatever reason a two week stipend should be offered, this would be paid back once you are back to work. After two weeks if a person has not found a job they would have to borrow from a friend or relative.
If they need retraining a program should be offered where they work while training.
To much is free. It is the same with the health care system. If someone does not have insurance they drain the system because the government picks up the tab.
That's why I am surprised so many do not support a government mandate for a person to buy insurance. They participate in funding their own care. Without insurance the government pays the bills. That is sound thinking to have people own insurance.
Not having insurance allows the government to keep picking up the tab. Foolishness as far as I can see. It is just another freebie to those that don't pay their dues.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

I don't see this election as changing anything. The rampant welfare system will not change. I'm not even certain it can be slowed down. When the system of helping was created that was great. At the time many did need the helps. The problem was the helps instituted never stopped. The welfare system continued to grow and as you asked in another post "When did the government become a charity" this is when.
The system itself enables many to take advantage of it. There are not enough checks and balances.
The question I ask and have no viable answer myself is how does this welfare system draw to a close? How do you one day take all the millions that are now dependent on such a system off the system and expect them to find work. Most are not even prepared to work and fit into standard society.
It's easy to see the problems but trying to find a reasonable solution is the problem.
Many of the people in this system know nothing else. They have no skills. They have learned to live off the fat of the land and it has become a lifestyle. This welfare style of living is not communist as in that system fully in place those that don't work don't eat.

When something is taken, something should be given back in return. How do we define a Safety Net? Needs first. We help develop skills and ability in return, at least for the willing. Day Labor at the base. X number of hours a week or month, for starters. Volunteer, Community Service.

The Entitlement mentality is killing us, something for nothing in return does not build character. I am not here to serve your addictions or indulgences, neither are you here to serve mine. This corruption needs to be addressed just like all of the rest.

It's demeaning to the soul...

Yes but the mentality was created. Again, how is this undone without creating havoc? It's the system the US created trying to undo this is now a national problem.

 

[The T]

When something is taken, something should be given back in return. How do we define a Safety Net? Needs first. We help develop skills and ability in return, at least for the willing. Day Labor at the base. X number of hours a week or month, for starters. Volunteer, Community Service.

The Entitlement mentality is killing us, something for nothing in return does not build character. I am not here to serve your addictions or indulgences, neither are you here to serve mine. This corruption needs to be addressed just like all of the rest.

It's demeaning to the soul...

Yes but the mentality was created. Again, how is this undone without creating havoc? It's the system the US created trying to undo this is now a national problem.

And what system would that be?