Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[Steelplate]

Thank God not one of us "lefties" on here are calling for Communism.

But the righties don't realize that because they are brainwashed by the right wing media calling all "lefties" by the terms Marxists, Socialists and Communists.

 

[Steelplate]

If all welfare systems were abolished it would literally put millions of peoples lives at risk. By your own logic, they should be the ones picking up weapons and coming after you.

Come after me? Why? I don't know any of them welfare people, I have nothing to do with them, I don't associate with their kind, I don't even give a rats ass about them. I mind my own business and affairs and give others no cause to come after me. If anyone does however try to fuck with me, I'll slaughter them and let my dogs have their corpse(s) for sexual pleasure and then dinner. Seriously, fucK off humanity, I want nothing to do with your kind, humans SUCK! Leave me alone. Leave everyone alone. GD f'n humans, what the hell is wrong with some of you out there anyhow? Gawdalmigthy, what a creepy species. Planet lice.

Wow....how nice.

 

[JoeB131]

Communism cannot work due to nature of man.

About cover it?

Neither does capitalism, for much the same reason...

It has for 200 years.

Suck it down, man.

No, it really hasn't for most people. It's worked very well for the 1%.

It KIND OF worked when we had a strong union movement making sure working folks got their fair share. Didn't take the Corporatists assholes like you too long to fuck that one up.

Still working on my garage guillotine...

 

[Mac1958]

.

These simplistic, binary choices are kind of silly.

The question is the degree to which a system includes certain elements.

.

 

[Intense]

Ideal communism, Most or all communism is corrupted. And i dont belive ideal capitalism exist either.

The entire concept of Communism is a joke. If everyone is equal, who decides who makes all the decisions? Why are only certain people running the show if everyone is equal? There is no such thing as equality, never has been and never will. It doesn't matter what system you want to describe, equality does not exist. In a capitalistic system or any democratic system, at least there is some equality of opportunity, but even that isn't true. Not everyone has an equal opportunity to become successful in their lives.

Agreed. The concept is about who gets to administer, control, rule, over others, no more. Circles within Circles. The Closer to the Core, the more toys you have.
You can't Legislate Providence. Central Control, One Size Fit's All, Mentality, is a Formula for Disaster. Why the need to Play the Role of the God You Deny?

 

[Toro]

Neither does capitalism, for much the same reason...

It has for 200 years.

Suck it down, man.

No, it really hasn't for most people. It's worked very well for the 1%.

It KIND OF worked when we had a strong union movement making sure working folks got their fair share. Didn't take the Corporatists assholes like you too long to fuck that one up.

Still working on my garage guillotine...

Yeah, that's right Joe, the working class has about the same living standards as it did in 1802.



In sure that the irony of typing such drivel on the Internet escapes you.

 

[JoeB131]

It has for 200 years.

Suck it down, man.

No, it really hasn't for most people. It's worked very well for the 1%.

It KIND OF worked when we had a strong union movement making sure working folks got their fair share. Didn't take the Corporatists assholes like you too long to fuck that one up.

Still working on my garage guillotine...

Yeah, that's right Joe, the working class has about the same living standards as it did in 1802.



In sure that the irony of typing such drivel on the Internet escapes you.

Oh, you mean the internet the GOVERNMENT created? That internet?

The working class has a higher standard of living now because UNIONS fought for their rights, not because rich people decided to give it to them.

 

[Intense]

No, it really hasn't for most people. It's worked very well for the 1%.

It KIND OF worked when we had a strong union movement making sure working folks got their fair share. Didn't take the Corporatists assholes like you too long to fuck that one up.

Still working on my garage guillotine...

Yeah, that's right Joe, the working class has about the same living standards as it did in 1802.



In sure that the irony of typing such drivel on the Internet escapes you.

Oh, you mean the internet the GOVERNMENT created? That internet?

The working class has a higher standard of living now because UNIONS fought for their rights, not because rich people decided to give it to them.

Funny, I would have given more credit to Invention, Discovery, Assertion, Union's all over the World, yet America leads in Innovation, even in spite of Union and Government Meddling. Why is that? Free Spirited Innovation? One could just as easily credit Entrepreneurism.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not as stupid as some of the lefty responses, I would venture.

Has Dragon gotten here, then?

 

[Uncensored2008]

The best part about communism is the way it freaks out the right wingers.

Whereas you of the left find no end to the giggles of a nice gulag or killing field...

Conservative: "What do you call a hundred million murdered at the hands of Uncle Joe Stalin?"

Leftist: "A good start!"

Leftism, where mass murder is just good, clean fun...

 

[Uncensored2008]

KIL, KILL, KILL!...the mantra of the right.

Apparently ignorance really does breeds comtempt.

Leftism: 250 million peace-time citizens murdered, yet still claiming it's the right that is violent.......

 

[Uncensored2008]

What tenet of communisim is it that supports a dictator and the oppresion of the people?

Dictatorship of the proletariat.

Why do you ask?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Jonestown was not Communist or Socialist. It was a community based on some strange religious belief.

I see that like most leftists, when you lack knowledge on a subject, you just make shit up and post it as if it were verified fact.

In fact Jonestown WAS Communist. Jim Jones posted edicts from the Communist Manifesto all over the compound and used the writings of Marx and Engles to form the bylaws of the community.

Jones had applied to the USSR to move the cult to Russia under political asylum as a communist group.

{Jones purported to establish Jonestown as a benevolent communist community, stating: "I believe we’re the purest communists there are."[24] Marceline Jones described Jonestown as "dedicated to live for socialism, total economic and racial and social equality. We are here living communally."[24] Jones wanted to construct a model community and claimed that Prime Minister Burnham "couldn’t rave enough about us, uh, the wonderful things we do, the project, the model of socialism."[25] In that regard, like the restrictive emigration policies of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea and other communist republics, Jones did not permit members to leave Jonestown.[26]}

Jonestown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nic_Driver]

What tenet of communisim is it that supports a dictator and the oppresion of the people?

Dictatorship of the proletariat.

Why do you ask?

I ask because the classless society was never achieved in any communist experiment to date.

So without a valid attempt at communism from which to gauge success or failure, people that are in vocal opposition actual oppose some other form of government but not communism.

 

[DiamondDave]

What tenet of communisim is it that supports a dictator and the oppresion of the people?

Dictatorship of the proletariat.

Why do you ask?

I ask because the classless society was never achieved in any communist experiment to date.

So without a valid attempt at communism from which to gauge success or failure, people that are in vocal opposition actual oppose some other form of government but not communism.

Because those that support 'communism' neglect to think about human nature.... and to have a system like communism involving humans, you must indeed have forced participation... it is inherently against the concept of freedom... for the moment you have people choosing to exercise the freedom not to be part of the communal system, the system will break down... and people do wish to take care of their own, have aspirations, have goals of more and success, etc.... hence the ruling class within a government wanting the utopian commune 'pushed' must exist... so even in the public guise of pushing for the 'classless society' there must indeed be classes or higher groups to enforce it.... you must have those who can produce more in order to make up for those who produce less, and you must force those who produce more to give up the fruits of their labor and not keep them or use them for themselves... more and more force is inherently needed

So my advice to those people who wish to push for more communist or socialist societies... is GROW THE FUCK UP

 

[Uncensored2008]

I ask because the classless society was never achieved in any communist experiment to date.

I take it that you've never read Marx. I notice this is common for leftists, to advocate for that which they are utterly ignorant of.

A "classless society" to Communists is like heaven to Christians. Some may believe that it will ultimately be there, but that is not the goal for the here and now. The real face of Christianity is sermons, churches and the clergy. The real face of Communism is a totalitarian system that provides to each according to their need and from each according to their ability.

Communism is the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, which has been done twice. Once by VI Lenin in St. Petersburg in 1922-23, and again by Pol Pot in Cambodia.

So without a valid attempt at communism from which to gauge success or failure, people that are in vocal opposition actual oppose some other form of government but not communism.

The talking point you spew is nonsense, we DO have valid attempt by Lenin and Pol Pot. Both were utter disasters that resulted in millions dead - such is the nature of leftism.

Leftism, of which Communism is the most extreme form, is authoritarian by nature, it must be. You seek to suppress the evolutionary drive of people to survive and ensure the survival of their gene pool, i.e. family in favor of a faceless state. Defying millions of years of evolution requires force, which the left uses with deadly results.

 

[Nic_Driver]

I ask because the classless society was never achieved in any communist experiment to date.

I take it that you've never read Marx. I notice this is common for leftists, to advocate for that which they are utterly ignorant of.

A "classless society" to Communists is like heaven to Christians. Some may believe that it will ultimately be there, but that is not the goal for the here and now. The real face of Christianity is sermons, churches and the clergy. The real face of Communism is a totalitarian system that provides to each according to their need and from each according to their ability.

Communism is the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, which has been done twice. Once by VI Lenin in St. Petersburg in 1922-23, and again by Pol Pot in Cambodia.

So without a valid attempt at communism from which to gauge success or failure, people that are in vocal opposition actual oppose some other form of government but not communism.

The talking point you spew is nonsense, we DO have valid attempt by Lenin and Pol Pot. Both were utter disasters that resulted in millions dead - such is the nature of leftism.

Leftism, of which Communism is the most extreme form, is authoritarian by nature, it must be. You seek to suppress the evolutionary drive of people to survive and ensure the survival of their gene pool, i.e. family in favor of a faceless state. Defying millions of years of evolution requires force, which the left uses with deadly results.

I take it you've never read Marx. The words "dictatorship of the proletariat" never appear in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto. The dream is for a classless society, which has never been the case and has never been tried. In fact, the whole point of communism is to end oppression by getting rid of classes altogether.

Now you try to argue that the communist experiments by both Lenin and Pol Pot somehow achieved communistic ideals when, clearly, they didn't. They simply formed their respective power bases with the mis-use of the term.

 

[Nic_Driver]

KIL, KILL, KILL!...the mantra of the right.

Apparently ignorance really does breeds comtempt.

Leftism: 250 million peace-time citizens murdered, yet still claiming it's the right that is violent.......

Whatever that means...way to obfuscate from the point...

 

[Uncensored2008]

I take it you've never read Marx. The words "dictatorship of the proletariat" never appear in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto.

{We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. }

Communist Manifesto (Chapter 2)

Try again.

The dream is for a classless society, which has never been the case and has never been tried. In fact, the whole point of communism is to end oppression by getting rid of classes altogether.

Just as the Mullah claims that when you pull the pin and blow yourself up, you will go to paradise, so Marx claimed;

{When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character.}

The first is the aim, it is communism. The second is the promise, the pie in the sky. No one ever gets to the last part.

Now you try to argue that the communist experiments by both Lenin and Pol Pot somehow achieved communistic ideals when, clearly, they didn't. They simply formed their respective power bases with the mis-use of the term.

They both did exactly as Marx instructed. They abolished currency, they confiscated all property, they formed committees to allocate resources and assign people to labor, all the horrors of leftism manifest in reality. They reduced people to mere cogs in the machine, valueless, expendable and quickly replaced. That is the promise of the left, life with no value, purpose or meaning. The reduction of men to nuts and bolts in service to the great machine of the state.

Such is the left.

 

[regent]

Dictatorship of the proletariat was part of the Scientific Socialism phase of Marx. Scientific Socialism was the precommunist period when the population was prepared to enter communism. The USSR began with Scientific Socialism then dropped the whole idea of communism but kept the dictator part.
Under Marxian communism there would be no government, and not even money, Marx said they would not be needed.
The real value of communism has been twofold, one, to offer people a Utopia if they followed some type of a leader, and two, to use the threat of communism to frighten people if they voted Democratic.