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Yeah, i think the "they know right from wrong" thing is the court definition of insanity.
But still I wonder, where is the line...
I am still on the fence in that the prosecution hasn't proven murder, only looney tunes. But we've much to go.
I believe Florida follows the MNaghten rule when it comes to an insanity defense. Basically the defense would have to prove either that the 1) defendant does not know the nature and quality of her act, or 2) she does not know what she was doing was wrong.
What I'm wondering is if the defense is trying really hard to make Casey look insane because they aren't shying away from her lies coming out in testimony. It almost looks like Casey had fabricated her own imaginary world, friends, jobs, etc. with the elaborateness of the lies that she told and that her mother testified to. Most all the people she mentions do not even exist. It's possible Casey actually BELIEVES her own lies. Even if the defense doesn't actually plead insanity (and I think I read somewhere that Casey did not want to plead insanity), they may be hoping to spare her the death penalty and she just get life in prison because the jury will think she is insane. The tactic reminds me of what happened in the movie "Primal Fear".
It's certainly much easier to believe that from the evidence and testimony that has happened than George covered up an accidental drowning and that he was molesting his daughter.
Can the jury use that as an excuse even though JB didn't claim any diminished capacity. Or am I an idiot and he did in a round about way?
I don't care if she is medically speaking insane or not. The punishment should be death imo
eta: This mornings tapes. "Hi, how are you?" cheerful and giggle giggle.
"My heart is aching, I just want to be back with my family" "I just want to get out of here" Each time Caylee is an after thought
What about the tape wrapped around her head?And I am beginning to see this as feasible. But how in the world can these actions not present the mother as insane? Rhetorical question. Being of rational minds, we can't help but think "she's nuts."
Can it really be that simple? A young mom felt strapped and burdened by the presence of her young daughter and would *poof* her away for a few hours so as not to interrupt mommy's play time.
yep, the tape. and we come full circle again.
I can't help but think of a couple we (hubster and I) knew years ago who once forced nyquil down their 6 year old daughters' throat because mommy and daddy wanted to hang out. I remember that child resisting because she knew what was going to happen and she didn't like it. Needless to say, we promptly left and never returned and maybe a phone call was placed to authorities.
My point is, as inconceivable as it is, I have witnessed this very occurance.
I keep getting stuck on that. It's mentioned a lot about 3 pieces of tape on her mouth and nose and - at least in my view- that minimizes the impact of her whole head actually wrapped in tape.
and yes the tape we are back full circle.
What about the tape wrapped around her head?
I keep getting stuck on that. It's mentioned a lot about 3 pieces of tape on her mouth and nose and - at least in my view- that minimizes the impact of her whole head actually wrapped in tape.
and yes the tape we are back full circle.
Not really. She could have accidentally drowned, and whomever discovered her and decided to cover it up, put the tape on AFTER she was dead. In fact, a point brought out on Dr. Drew last night, someone would have had to know that taping a person's mouth after drowning would stop any water flowing back into the body which would prove drowning had occurred. So the implication was that the duct tape was used to cover up the drowning.
and yes the tape we are back full circle.
Not really. She could have accidentally drowned, and whomever discovered her and decided to cover it up, put the tape on AFTER she was dead. In fact, a point brought out on Dr. Drew last night, someone would have had to know that taping a person's mouth after drowning would stop any water flowing back into the body which would prove drowning had occurred. So the implication was that the duct tape was used to cover up the drowning.
There is something seriously flawed in Casey's father's testimony about smelling decomposing human tissue in the car. I am from the country. I and the buzzards have smelt plenty of decomposing animal tissue. Not sure I would know the difference between a rotting deer and a rotting human. BUT, if I got in my car and smelt rotting flesh, I would be looking for it thinking maybe I had run over a squirrel or something and it stuck to the underside of the car.
Now, if I smelled what I knew to be rotting human tissue in my car, the first thing I would do is get back to the house, lock the doors and call the police. There is a problem with his testimony and with the wife's testimony who claims she tried to get rid of the odor with Febreze. WTF is wrong with the authorities here? That entire thing about decomposing tissue in the car is skewed.
I am beginning to think there probably is reasonable doubt in this case. But I doubt those on those hot jury seats will concur.
Good Mornin' Y'all.
Sorry, I haven't checked in before this, but I spent last night lost in the reading transcripts from Hell and this morning in a video conference.
Wow. So much information to go through and absorb.
I thought the research for my books was all consuming, I can't even imagine doing this for a living.
Anyway -- a few WOW moments from reading over here:
Case Documents Released*|*
"Toxicology testing detected no drugs."
They tested for Caylee's hair for eleven different types of drugs, but oddly enough did not test for Chloroform.
Why the Hell wouldn't they test for that? That's the State's entire case.
And . . .
"Duct tape had been placed on her head while her body was still fresh or while she was alive."
"This duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place."
Hmmm . . . really.
There's also a really sad exchange of emails between Cindy and her brother, Rick. He's pleading for her to quit acting and looking like a moron and also talks about George's family and his families history of "mental illness". :-o
Again, if you're really interested in the facts of this case -- this is a great site full of transcripts of sworn statements, DNA information and evidence reports.
But...say it's your daughters car. You are already in a disfunctional family and your daughter is a fruitbar who sucks off your credit cards and you babysit her kid but you still love your daughter. Her car smells like death and your grandkid is missing. Would you call the cops if the car smelled of death?
Besides, forensics looked under the car thoroughly. No dead animal. At any time.
They tested for Caylee's hair for eleven different types of drugs, but oddly enough did not test for Chloroform.
There is probably doubt... too many things remain completely unquestioned and honestly it seems too much time passed before there was any suggestion of foul play. I sympathize with Casey and not because she is without fault necessarily but because she seems to be surrounded by individuals only having been aware of their own feelings in the whole damned situation to make themselves really available to her during a time that she may have needed someone most.
I would too, sunshine. But there are many parents that would not. And that's whats going on with this case and is a component of it.
Oh I agree with you as to when he was on the stand.Yes, sounds like Lee doesn't trust JB too much in that interview
It's so interesting how different people read different things into the testimony. I saw Lee as being very hesitant to say anything that would directly go against Casey's actions, especially when he was being questioned by Frank and/or the lady prosecutor (can't think of her name). Later, when we saw the taped visits between Lee and Stacy at the jail, Lee seemed determined to sleuth out the truth, not just of Stacy's activities, but of all the other activities of those involved. Two years have passed since then, and it sure didn't appear to me that Lee had uncovered a whole lot of information that would indict Stacy and he wasn't about to be led down that path by the prosecution. Of course the parade of reporters all decided that Lee's demeanor seemed to indicate he was bored. Uh huh...
Before we were (at least I was) discussing the jail tapes. JB even went so far as to have the Judge make sure the jury does not take the comments about him into consideration when deliberating. JB felt they diminished his credibility in the eyes of the jury. Dum-dum was to have addressed that in January
He apparently is unaware of several pretrial rules. I guess he doesn't even have a paralegal that takes care of those mundane things like court filing deadlines.
In other words...still in denial of what their daughter is. The guy that bailed her out the first time..can't think of his name. He said a few things that clicked home to me. Zanni the nanny..short for xanax. That folks in florida call it that. And she wanted caylee to go to sleep but maybe ran out, so used chloroform. Didn't count on killing her, but mainly wanted to party. Once found the kid, shrug it off, get a story going, dump the body, continue on as before with partying.
And I am beginning to see this as feasible. But how in the world can these actions not present the mother as insane? Rhetorical question. Being of rational minds, we can't help but think "she's nuts."
Can it really be that simple? A young mom felt strapped and burdened by the presence of her young daughter and would *poof* her away for a few hours so as not to interrupt mommy's play time.
I can't help but think of a couple we (hubster and I) knew years ago who once forced nyquil down their 6 year old daughters' throat because mommy and daddy wanted to hang out. I remember that child resisting because she knew what was going to happen and she didn't like it. Needless to say, we promptly left and never returned and maybe a phone call was placed to authorities.
My point is, as inconceivable as it is, I have witnessed this very occurance.
As Casey has said directly to her parents in one of those jailhouse videos, "If I had wanted to be rid of Caylee in order to be free, I would have just left her with you."
Of course she would have. Problem solved, with few, if any, repercussions. Instead she creates this gigantic series of weird scenarios packed with lies just to be free of the "burden" of her child? Who, according to e.v.e.r.y.o.n.e was never a "burden" to her in the first place.
One more thing that has been bugging me. They have all this talk about Caylee's death being an 'accidental drowning'- yet the official autopsy report, signed by Dr. G. herself, states that the child's death was a HOMOCIDE: by undetermined means.
So where's 'accidental drowning' fit into the homocide category??
We're not there yet.
And I am beginning to see this as feasible. But how in the world can these actions not present the mother as insane? Rhetorical question. Being of rational minds, we can't help but think "she's nuts."
Can it really be that simple? A young mom felt strapped and burdened by the presence of her young daughter and would *poof* her away for a few hours so as not to interrupt mommy's play time.
I can't help but think of a couple we (hubster and I) knew years ago who once forced nyquil down their 6 year old daughters' throat because mommy and daddy wanted to hang out. I remember that child resisting because she knew what was going to happen and she didn't like it. Needless to say, we promptly left and never returned and maybe a phone call was placed to authorities.
My point is, as inconceivable as it is, I have witnessed this very occurance.
As Casey has said directly to her parents in one of those jailhouse videos, "If I had wanted to be rid of Caylee in order to be free, I would have just left her with you."
Of course she would have. Problem solved, with few, if any, repercussions. Instead she creates this gigantic series of weird scenarios packed with lies just to be free of the "burden" of her child? Who, according to e.v.e.r.y.o.n.e was never a "burden" to her in the first place.
No, No, No...let me tell you why and how I say NO.
I have a daughter, a daughter who is very much manipulative, a daughter who has lied to me, a daughter who has stolen from me, a daughter who has tried to kill me.
This same daughter had a daughter, and to get back AT ME, when she lost her child, because she didn't want ME to have the child, she tried everything in her power, to get her child into state's custody, so that ME, the Grandmother, would not have the child. Casey reminds me of my daughter somewhat.
They are not thinking of their child, or the Grandparents. They want to hurt us Grandmothers, punish us, for who knows what reason.
Rather that see that child in good hands, with family, some crazy gals will go to great lengths to keep the Grandmother (grandparents) from getting the child.
I can see it. I can see Casey not wanting Cindy or George to have Caylee, wanting to punish them in some way. I don't know why. But hand her over?? So she could be free?? If she has as much hatred and anger as it appears she does, letting her parents have her baby, was the last thing she wanted.
One more thing that has been bugging me. They have all this talk about Caylee's death being an 'accidental drowning'- yet the official autopsy report, signed by Dr. G. herself, states that the child's death was a HOMOCIDE: by undetermined means.
So where's 'accidental drowning' fit into the homocide category??
We're not there yet.
Uh...yeah we are. The official autopsy is online, for all to see. It clearly states that the Medical Examiner lists the cause of death as HOMICIDE, by undetermined means.
She isn't going to go back and change that now!
The autopsy report is a done deal, signed, sealed, delivered.
Authorities have said Caylee was murdered but the cause of death could not be determined.
