Catholic Archbishop: Wake Up! Religious Liberty at Risk in USA

[Intense]

Well now you can't. No one is forcing you to pay for abortions though unless you're an insurance company, and you aren't.

We are being forced by decree to pay through our Premiums. Honesty is the best policy.

Premiums, taxes, and nutty legislation! It's now our obligation to pay through the nose for idiot con-artists tweaking the system to rake in money and benefits from everybody else so they don't have to pay, just receive money for being stupid.

I suspect the Dem's like them dumb and stupid. Repeat business for the Clinics. $$$$$$$$$$

 

[JimBowie1958]

Though I have a feeling that you would be in here up in arms over having to pay for everyone's abortions with tax dollars then so I'm not sure why you would offer national insurance pools as an alternative vis a vis your employer standpoint argument.

Because, depending on how the state insurance pools are run:

1) paying indirectly through forced taxation for something that is evil is not nearly so bad as being forced to pay for that evil directly and personally.

2) It would not require personal enablement of murder.

 

[JimBowie1958]

We are being forced by decree to pay through our Premiums. Honesty is the best policy.

Premiums, taxes, and nutty legislation! It's now our obligation to pay through the nose for idiot con-artists tweaking the system to rake in money and benefits from everybody else so they don't have to pay, just receive money for being stupid.

I suspect the Dem's like them dumb and stupid. Repeat business for the Clinics. $$$$$$$$$$

Are you being sarcastic?

I think what you said to be literally true.

 

[Osomir]

What you are defending here is new precedent, operating contradictory to established policy, until now. You are doing that with a failed moral argument. The agenda of those you serve is control. In this case specifically, it is focused on two more things, getting Religious Institutions to act against their ethics and principles, weakening them, and shifting the cost of the abortions themselves, away from those enabling them, and towards those ethically opposed. The Cost of the shift of payment lands directly on those paying the premiums, unless you want to place insurance companies in the Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny Class.

And then employers pass some of those costs along to consumers in the form of higher prices. Insurance premiums are an input cost associated with labor, higher input costs are usually always passed along here and there via lower COLAs for workers or higher fees for consumers. This particular input cost isn't discriminatory against any single religious group and affects all employers regardless of race or religion.

As far as your assertion regarding the motivation of this policy I can't say that I agree with your conclusion, but I'm always willing to look at whatever directly related evidence you have for drawing those conclusions.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What you are defending here is new precedent, operating contradictory to established policy, until now. You are doing that with a failed moral argument. The agenda of those you serve is control. In this case specifically, it is focused on two more things, getting Religious Institutions to act against their ethics and principles, weakening them, and shifting the cost of the abortions themselves, away from those enabling them, and towards those ethically opposed. The Cost of the shift of payment lands directly on those paying the premiums, unless you want to place insurance companies in the Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny Class.

And then employers pass some of those costs along to consumers in the form of higher prices. Insurance premiums are an input cost associated with labor, higher input costs are usually always passed along here and there via lower COLAs for workers or higher fees for consumers. This particular input cost isn't discriminatory against any single religious group and affects all employers regardless of race or religion.

Yeah, if everyone has to commit murder, then its like no one is really murdering anyone, really. /s

You libtards amaze and amuse me to no end.

 

[Osomir]

Yeah, if everyone has to commit murder, then its like no one is really murdering anyone, really. /s

You libtards amaze and amuse me to no end.

Says the person who supports offering these policies through state insurance pools that are funded by tax dollars? Seems like a bit of a hypocritical criticism there bud.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yeah, if everyone has to commit murder, then its like no one is really murdering anyone, really. /s

You libtards amaze and amuse me to no end.

Says the person who supports offering these policies through state insurance pools that are funded by tax dollars? Seems like a bit of a hypocritical criticism there bud.

Not really, when you think about it.

Suppose I was Hindu living in this country, and I believe that the belly of a cow holds ten thousand souls as a few of them have told me. Then how can they live peacefully in the midst of such heinous slaughter going on around them?

By compartmentalization of what they are responsible for and what they are not.

They cant prevent their employs from eating beef, and most wouldn't even think of doing so, but if you pass a law forcing them to build a slaughter house and slaughter cows to feed their employees, that goes to far. If you force them to provide beef for their employees to eat at lunch that also is too far, if they object.

If the people working for a Catholic business want to get abortions, the employer cannot stop it, but he must not have to pay for it to be done.

Allowing someone to get the insurance outside the business employed at is not the same as forcing the employer to pay for it directly.

 

[Pogo]

And thus Jesus went up onto the mountain and when the lost came to him for counsel he said unto them: "eat shit."

Damn. I'm over-repped but I owe you for this one

Say, you have a rare talent for engaging the emotionally stunted here-- first Belchboy, now Bowie.

I can recommend a few more if you're up to the Special Ed challenge....

Oh bah, it is easy to instigate and provoke when you don't believe in a damned thing.

BTW, don't you have something to do? I thought you weren't participating in this thread anymore, hypocritical ass.

What I said was I'm done dealing with you, as I don't have the Special Ed training that's obviously required for those of your intellectual infantilism, but it's interesting (again) that you wanna cry "hypocrisy" when you're all wetting your pants about abortion, and you're not even female.

.... while at the same time yet you can't comprehend how a non-Indian could be offended at the term "Redskin"

As I said --- low hanging fruit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Damn. I'm over-repped but I owe you for this one

Say, you have a rare talent for engaging the emotionally stunted here-- first Belchboy, now Bowie.

I can recommend a few more if you're up to the Special Ed challenge....

Oh bah, it is easy to instigate and provoke when you don't believe in a damned thing.

BTW, don't you have something to do? I thought you weren't participating in this thread anymore, hypocritical ass.

What I said was I'm done dealing with you,

Well, obviously you are not done, dumbass.

as I don't have the Special Ed training that's obviously required for those of your intellectual nondevelopment, but it's interesting (again) that you wanna cry "hypocrisy" when you're all wetting your pants about abortion, and you're not even female.

That you don't see the difference is proof positive that you are an ignoramus and a fool.

.... while at the same time yet you can't comprehend how a non-Indian could be offended at the term "Redskin"

It is impossible for a third party to genuinely be offended on behalf of a second party at the statements of a primary party. I would explain this again, but you aren't worth the effort, having repeatedly demonstrated that you are deliberately stupid.

As I said --- low hanging fruit.

I am not interested in hearing about your sex partners.

BTW, you really need to look up what 'cognitive dissonance' means, shit-for-brains.

 

[Pogo]

>> fucking fascist punk... So you are comfortable being a fascist?... Shame you missed your chance at guarding a death camp, bitch.... fucking hypocrite... Fuck off, pig....Eat shit, fascist...dumbass... you are stupid as shit, please stay out of the thread...Just like a fucking fascist. I bet you just cant wait to cram people in the ovens, can you?... you are a stupid ass and a fool... fuck you you stupid shit Nazi... Eat shit, bitch... You are a lying bastard. Fortunately, you are too stupid to realize how transparent your asinine lies are... dumbass... you are an ignoramus and a fool... shit-for-brains... <<

 

[JimBowie1958]

>> fucking fascist punk... So you are comfortable being a fascist?... Shame you missed your chance at guarding a death camp, bitch.... fucking hypocrite... Fuck off, pig....Eat shit, fascist...dumbass... you are stupid as shit, please stay out of the thread...Just like a fucking fascist. I bet you just cant wait to cram people in the ovens, can you?... you are a stupid ass and a fool... fuck you you stupid shit Nazi... Eat shit, bitch... You are a lying bastard. Fortunately, you are too stupid to realize how transparent your asinine lies are... dumbass... you are an ignoramus and a fool... shit-for-brains... <<

You display a complete disregard for truth, both moral and legal.

You are a fool and a clown and there is no one to remedy you of this malady.

 

[longknife]

No matter how hard you try, the ONLY ones to agree with you are Christians and Jews. The remainder of whatever bent, will never agree or change their minds.

Any thread of wasted effort.

 

[Pogo]

>> fucking fascist punk... So you are comfortable being a fascist?... Shame you missed your chance at guarding a death camp, bitch.... fucking hypocrite... Fuck off, pig....Eat shit, fascist...dumbass... you are stupid as shit, please stay out of the thread...Just like a fucking fascist. I bet you just cant wait to cram people in the ovens, can you?... you are a stupid ass and a fool... fuck you you stupid shit Nazi... Eat shit, bitch... You are a lying bastard. Fortunately, you are too stupid to realize how transparent your asinine lies are... dumbass... you are an ignoramus and a fool... shit-for-brains... <<

You display a complete disregard for truth, both moral and legal.

Truth?
Those are all your words. Verbatim. Own them.

 

[Osomir]

Suppose I was Hindu living in this country, and I believe that the belly of a cow holds ten thousand souls as a few of them have told me. Then how can they live peacefully in the midst of such heinous slaughter going on around them?

By compartmentalization of what they are responsible for and what they are not.

They cant prevent their employs from eating beef, and most wouldn't even think of doing so, but if you pass a law forcing them to build a slaughter house and slaughter cows to feed their employees, that goes to far. If you force them to provide beef for their employees to eat at lunch that also is too far, if they object.

No one is forcing you to build an abortion clinic and work there so your comparison seems a bit off.

Hindus in the US do have to pay tax money that goes to subsidizing the beef industry though.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Suppose I was Hindu living in this country, and I believe that the belly of a cow holds ten thousand souls as a few of them have told me. Then how can they live peacefully in the midst of such heinous slaughter going on around them?

By compartmentalization of what they are responsible for and what they are not.

They cant prevent their employs from eating beef, and most wouldn't even think of doing so, but if you pass a law forcing them to build a slaughter house and slaughter cows to feed their employees, that goes to far. If you force them to provide beef for their employees to eat at lunch that also is too far, if they object.

No one is forcing you to build an abortion clinic and work there so your comparison seems a bit off.

Hindus in the US do have to pay tax money that goes to subsidizing the beef industry though.

It is the directness of paying for insurance that pays for abortion, etc, not simply running an abortion mill. I set the initial case up as a clearly immoral thing for the government to do, and telling the Hindu employer to feed beef to his employees would be the similarity.

It is remarkable how difficult this is for some people to grasp.

 

[JimBowie1958]

>> fucking fascist punk... So you are comfortable being a fascist?... Shame you missed your chance at guarding a death camp, bitch.... fucking hypocrite... Fuck off, pig....Eat shit, fascist...dumbass... you are stupid as shit, please stay out of the thread...Just like a fucking fascist. I bet you just cant wait to cram people in the ovens, can you?... you are a stupid ass and a fool... fuck you you stupid shit Nazi... Eat shit, bitch... You are a lying bastard. Fortunately, you are too stupid to realize how transparent your asinine lies are... dumbass... you are an ignoramus and a fool... shit-for-brains... <<

You display a complete disregard for truth, both moral and legal.

Truth?
Those are all your words. Verbatim. Own them.

I didn't deny that those were my words, Mr Jackass.

People are being compelled by the government to commit murder and all you can do quibble about the technicalities and bitch about my language.

BTW I thought you were done with this thread? So what the hell is keeping you around, dumbass?

 

[JimBowie1958]

No matter how hard you try, the ONLY ones to agree with you are Christians and Jews. The remainder of whatever bent, will never agree or change their minds.

Any thread of wasted effort.

I have had Muslims come to agreement and some agnostics, even some Episcopalians, believe it or not.

But yes, getting an atheist to try and see the immorality of this from a theists perspective is like trying to get blood from a turnip; it just is not in most of them.

 

[Osomir]

It is the directness of paying for insurance that pays for abortion, etc, not simply running an abortion mill. I set the initial case up as a clearly immoral thing for the government to do, and telling the Hindu employer to feed beef to his employees would be the similarity.

It is remarkable how difficult this is for some people to grasp.

Employees tend to have more rights than businesses, legally speaking. It's one of the hardships associated with owning a business, and we tend to regulate business for health and safety reasons all of the time (an example would be smoking bans in restaurants, or anti-pollution regulations). Insurance is a matter of health these reforms don't have anything to do with intents to erode religion, it has to do with intents to maximize health coverage for the general population. The way our system is set up most of our health coverage comes from employers so it makes sense to target such sources for change when change is desired.

If you don't like that then feel free to push for a different system, or vote for someone who will get rid of it. We had that chance during the last elections with Romney and he lost.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It is the directness of paying for insurance that pays for abortion, etc, not simply running an abortion mill. I set the initial case up as a clearly immoral thing for the government to do, and telling the Hindu employer to feed beef to his employees would be the similarity.

It is remarkable how difficult this is for some people to grasp.

Employees tend to have more rights than businesses, legally speaking. It's one of the hardships associated with owning a business, and we tend to regulate business for health and safety reasons all of the time (an example would be smoking bans in restaurants, or anti-pollution regulations). Insurance is a matter of health these reforms don't have anything to do with intents to erode religion, it has to do with intents to maximize health coverage for the general population. The way our system is set up most of our health coverage comes from employers so it makes sense to target such sources for change when change is desired.

If you don't like that then feel free to push for a different system, or vote for someone who will get rid of it. We had that chance during the last elections with Romney and he lost.

Intent is irrelevant IMO to the plain fact that employers are being forced to pay for murder, in their view. That is tyrannical and abhorrent.

It is truly amazing that there are so many who are quite OK with such tyrannical behavior.

But then again, Stalin is fairly popular with the Dems these, days, and Mao had some Christmas decorations done in his likeness, so why should I be surprised what filth can come out of the mind of a militant secular extremist today?

But I got news for you dudes and dudetes; the church wins as it has against the Romans, the Pharisee, the Muslims, the Protestants, the Maoists, the Stalinists and Jacobins.

Talk all the shit you want, but in all likelihood a Christian or Muslim will write the history of what has gone on here and you secular fascists will be correctly recorded as akin to the worst of what happened in the 20th century, no matter what bullshit you spin to gullible college students today.

Some of us will dance on your graves, lol.

 

[Osomir]

Intent is irrelevant IMO to the plain fact that employers are being forced to pay for murder, in their view. That is tyrannical and abhorrent.

That's their view, not society's. Also intent is important when it comes to accusations of discrimination and there is no evidence of active discrimination in this instance.

It is truly amazing that there are so many who are quite OK with such tyrannical behavior.

I'm curious if you have a problem with Muslim employers being required to allow their employees to work without head scarfs should they so choose.

Some of us will dance on your graves, lol.

How very Christian of you. So much for loving your fellow man I guess.