Catholic hospital: Fetus is NOT a human being

[Freewill]

Instead of picketing family planning clinics and killing doctors in their churches in front of their families, anti-choice folks should be helping people get birth control.

Why yes exactly. Cause we all know the immense struggle it takes to get a condom.

Liberals can't even fuck without .gov assistance and conservative funding.

Can't rep you but LOL.

 

[Seawytch]

I dont care about Jesus day.

Mothers kill their own out of convenience .........not just the deformed.

Women get abortions. It's been happening since the beginning of time. The best way to prevent an abortion from happening? Prevent the pregnancy.

The best way to prevent the pregnancy? Education and science.

In this day an age do you think we need to explain to children how babies are made? Really? What further education do you think they need to realize that pregnacy is not a punishment? I type that because how else would someone terminate a life if they didn't think it was a punishment? What exactly do you expect science to do?

The History Place - Holocaust Timeline: Nazi Euthanasia

It is a fact that access to free birth control reduced abortions. That is how I want to go about eliminating abortions.

I expect science to keep building a better mousetrap. (or sperm trap as it were)

Oh look, a Nazi reference. You lose!

 

[Katzndogz]

The HOSPITAL is saying no such thing. The lawyers representing the hospital are saying that state law says that a fetus is not a human being. Just another democrat lie. They just can't stop can they.

The vital point, is that this wasn't an abortion. The woman went to the hospital for medical care, not to terminate a pregnancy. She wanted her children. Her husband wanted the twin boys. What makes this so vital is that it follows the path that the democrats have been following. There is no murder of an unborn child. Men who cause miscarriages by beating babies out of their wives and girlfriends are guilty of nothing more than simple battery. Scott Petersen would not be guilty of the murder of his son Connor. Democrats want to legalize murder.

 

[Intense]

Lori Stodghill was 28 weeks pregnant when she went to the emergency room of St. Thomas More Hospital in Canon City vomiting and short of breath, according to a court document.

She went into cardiac arrest in the lobby.
Lawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person - CNN.com

Looks like what did go down was beyond their control and ability to effect. No one was given much of a chance there. Wrongful Death? I seriously doubt it. Fetuses not Human? For those that believe we as Humans possess Souls, I would ask you specifically When? When do We Possess Souls?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Must defer to Obama on the status of your soul.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama owns your soul, but he will rent it to you for a reasonable tax.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Church might be perfectly consistent but the lawyers are following the law. As they are legally obligated to do. If religion has no place in the courtroom, it has no place in the courtroom. This means that lawyers may not argue religious dogma.

When a muslim goes on trial for the honor killing of his daughter, are his lawyers obligated to argue the legality of such murder under shariah law? Is he innocent because his daughter is an immoral whore and not subject to the laws prohibiting the murder of a human being?

According to liberal understanding of legal definitions, the man is perfectly within his rights to kill his daughter and it doesn't matter that the hospital caused the deaths of two unborn twin boys.

Democrats are all about dying. Kill the babies, kill the elderly. Democrats are the party of murderers who only need application of the right kind of law to make them innocent.

 

[Katzndogz]

It's hypocritical to be sure.

I wonder if anyone will still be prosecuted for 2 counts of murder for killing a pregnant woman.

Now you have the basis of the belief that killing these boys wasn't murder. It will legalize the actions of any guy who kills an unborn child no matter what their motivation.

Liberals want to make this a religious issue when it is a legal issue.

 

[Intense]

The Lawyers should have argued on the merit of the case. The Hospital did all it could, it just was not enough to save the Life of the Man's Wife and Sons. Providence is it's own Law. He has a 9 Year old Daughter to raise. He does not need the strain or burden. The Church could help him out there.

 

[Katzndogz]

The lawyers did argue the merits of the case. That's what liberals have a problem with. We don't know that the lawyers were catholic or atheist themselves. The lawyers take an oath to uphold the law, even if that law conflicts with their personal opinions. This is being reviewed by Catholic Bishops to determine if religious laws were violated in terms of the Church, it is nothing to do with the courtroom.

We don't know if the hospital did all it could. These are matters for the jury after testimony by expert witnesses and examination of medical records.

 

[Annie]

Well well well. It seems that a fetus is a person only when the Church wants it to be. When faced with a multi million dollar lawsuit, they change their stance:

A chain of Catholic Hospitals has beaten a malpractice lawsuit by saying that fetuses are not equivalent to human lives.

According to the Colorado Independent, in the death of a 31-year-old woman carrying twin fetuses, Catholic Health Initiatives’ attorneys argued that in cases of wrongful death, the term “person” only applies to individuals born alive, and not to those who die in utero.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/www....by-saying-fetuses-arent-people/#ixzz2J3vVDLyM

So is a fetus a person or not, Catholics?

Actually this is the way it should work.

Catholics or other religious persons who believe that life begins at conception are free to do so, and to not have an abortion or counsel a family member to not have an abortion in accordance with their faith.

Once in the legal/Constitutional realm, however, the law is paramount, in this case the law of the state of Colorado.

It’s perfectly appropriate, therefore, for the Church to argue facts of law in the case, and not religious dogma.

Exactly. The lawyers argument has been, 'according to CO law, a fetus is not..."

At the same time, the 3 bishops of CO are looking at the hospital and defense. Catholic Bishops To Investigate Catholic Hospital Group That Argued In Lawsuit That Fetuses Are Not People

 

[Seawytch]

The Catholic Church is just going by the bible after all...

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

 

[LilOlLady]

I have seen lots of 3 month old fetus and they are not human beings or even close. They are hosts like parasites. A fetus with a heart beat is not a viable human being. If a fetus was a baby it would called a baby. Survivability of babies born at 27 to 28 weeks is over 95% today. Usually abortions are not done at 28 weeks unless the mother's life is in danger. And it is not called an abortion but premature delivery to save both. Million of babie born at 28 weeks have survived without health problems.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The lawyers did argue the merits of the case. That's what liberals have a problem with. We don't know that the lawyers were catholic or atheist themselves. The lawyers take an oath to uphold the law, even if that law conflicts with their personal opinions. This is being reviewed by Catholic Bishops to determine if religious laws were violated in terms of the Church, it is nothing to do with the courtroom.

We don't know if the hospital did all it could. These are matters for the jury after testimony by expert witnesses and examination of medical records.

I don't have a problem with it. In fact, it further supports the devastating argument I made regarding the birth control insurance mandate, in short,

that the Catholic Church's 'conscience' defense is nonsensical.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Lawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person - CNN.com

Well, this is certainly interesting. With all the talk that has so often come from the church about how voting for pro-choice candidates is a sin, etc, now the church wants to hide behind the convenience of saying that a fetus is actually not a human being after all. This is almost as bad as Obama calling for a gun ban while surrounded by dozens of armed guards.

The wrongfulness of the death aside, how can a Catholic hospital justifiably make such an argument? With all the talk about employers providing birth control, the arguments there cannot be simultaneous maintained with the arguments there; if religious belief supposedly justify exclusions from the law then the church cannot argue legal technicalities that violate the same core beliefs.

I'll be interested to see how the larger church responds to this incident.

Really it's not a human being? What is it? A fish? Horse? Dog? Bird?

It's not person under the law where the law has not given it personhood status.

 

[Katzndogz]

There was no conscience defense. This is not, I repeat NOT, an abortion case. It is a wrongful death case. It is a negligence case. If you want to say that the hospital was correct in letting the twin boys die because they weren't human beings, say so.

If a man beats his pregnant girlfriend until she miscarries has he committed murder, or just assault and battery? Was Scott Peterson guilty of murdering his unborn son? If a pregnant woman goes into the hospital what level of care does that hospital owe to the unborn child? These are legal questions. These are not questions of religious dogma. If a secular hospital failed to provide medical care to an unborn child and used the defense of the legality of abortion do you personally think they have done nothing wrong?

 

[Delia]

Why did Tiller sell footprints?

You do know that he had a whole abortion last trimester game on don't you?

.................. what?!

 

[Delia]

The best way to prevent the pregnancy? Education and science.

Or a condom.

Or to have sex inside the confines of your marriage where a pregnancy can be nurtured into productive citizens.

Minimal education. Maybe .1% Science involved.

Really? You believe that only single women get abortions?

 

[deltex1]

As for the hospital's potential liability, we are not given any information as to why this woman died and/or if there was any direct negligence committed by the hospital that led to her death. What I find hilarious though, is the fact that a Catholic Hospital would argue that these two babies that died were not human beings. I would agree with that assessment if the fetuses were in their early stages, but at 28 weeks, both could have survived outside the mother's womb given adequate care. Survivability of babies born at 27 to 28 weeks is over 95% today. I really don't see how any hospital could claim that these fetuses were not viable. Worse yet, is the fact that the court agreed with them.

The lawyers for the hospital said the babies were not babies in accordance with State law.

The hospital did not claim the babies were not viable.





The State Law agreed with them.
Time to change the laws of the state???

FWIW-This is a tiny hospital, basically in the middle of nowhere, who happened to save my child's life.

Ma Belle took the words right out of my uterus...

 

[Sunshine]

Well well well. It seems that a fetus is a person only when the Church wants it to be. When faced with a multi million dollar lawsuit, they change their stance:

A chain of Catholic Hospitals has beaten a malpractice lawsuit by saying that fetuses are not equivalent to human lives.

According to the Colorado Independent, in the death of a 31-year-old woman carrying twin fetuses, Catholic Health Initiatives’ attorneys argued that in cases of wrongful death, the term “person” only applies to individuals born alive, and not to those who die in utero.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/www....by-saying-fetuses-arent-people/#ixzz2J3vVDLyM

So is a fetus a person or not, Catholics?

Only in the case of a 'wrongful death.' Deosn't seem to be anything about abortion in that case.