If you "checked out things" at GOP.gov, Chris...then why is your list copied from a liberal blog site? You didn't check out anything other than go on line looking for left wing talking points as to why Harry Reid is sitting on every bill that comes from the Republican controlled House. The House is trying very hard to get rid of some of the over-regulation that is keeping our economy from growing. Just because a lobbyist is seeking something doesn't mean it's wrong. There was an environmental lobbyist seeking the EPA regulations on green house gasses and bans on drilling before they were passed. There is a lobbyist behind EVERY piece of legislation coming from the Republicans OR the Democrats.
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CBO: Stimulus saved between 5 to 25 million jobs
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
If you "checked out things" at GOP.gov, Chris...then why is your list copied from a liberal blog site? You didn't check out anything other than go on line looking for left wing talking points as to why Harry Reid is sitting on every bill that comes from the Republican controlled House. The House is trying very hard to get rid of some of the over-regulation that is keeping our economy from growing. Just because a lobbyist is seeking something doesn't mean it's wrong. There was an environmental lobbyist seeking the EPA regulations on green house gasses and bans on drilling before they were passed. There is a lobbyist behind EVERY piece of legislation coming from the Republicans OR the Democrats.
Between 5 and 25 million jobs ?
Not exactly a precise number is it?
Certainly some jobs, mostly state workers, teachers and whatnot, were saved.
One would think a more accurate estimate would be possible, though.
It's not a "precise" number, Ed because it's a "bullshit" number. Jobs saved? How do you quantify that?
What's amusing to me is that we're given a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been lost if NO stimulus had taken place and then a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been "saved" and the difference is used to show what a success Obama's stimulus was.
You've got a phantom number on one end of your equation...a phantom number on the other...but we're supposed to believe that the number you get from doing the math with these phantom figures is "real". It's a joke. It's why you're getting spreads of "5 to 25 million".
- Thread starter
- #243
Between 5 and 25 million jobs ?
Not exactly a precise number is it?
Certainly some jobs, mostly state workers, teachers and whatnot, were saved.
One would think a more accurate estimate would be possible, though.
It's not a "precise" number, Ed because it's a "bullshit" number. Jobs saved? How do you quantify that?
What's amusing to me is that we're given a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been lost if NO stimulus had taken place and then a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been "saved" and the difference is used to show what a success Obama's stimulus was.
You've got a phantom number on one end of your equation...a phantom number on the other...but we're supposed to believe that the number you get from doing the math with these phantom figures is "real". It's a joke. It's why you're getting spreads of "5 to 25 million".
Who cares?
It's obvious that the stimulus saved the economy.
That's why the right wing Chamber of Commerce supported it.
I keep hearing about these republican House "jobs" bills that are stuck in the Senate, so I checked them out at GOP.gov. They are as follows:
HR872- reduces EPA regulations on pesticides, fungicides and rodenticides. (lobbyists)
HR910- prohibits EPA regulation of greenhouse gasses. (lobbyists)
HR37- prohibits FCC from implementing net neutrality. (lobbyists)
HR 1230- requires Dept. of Interior to open more oil and gas leases offshore. (lobbyists)
HR1229- directs Dept. of Interior to issue more offshore drilling permits. (lobbyists)
HR1231- reverses President's offshore drilling moratorium. (lobbyists, and already done by President)
HR2021- eliminates EPA delays in Alaskan offshore drilling. (lobbyists)
HR2018- allows states to overrule EPA standards on water pollution. (lobbyists)
HR1315- allows House Financial Council to set aside any federal regulation. (lobbyists)
HR1938- demands immediate approval of Keystone XL pipeline w/o Executive study, (lobbyists)
HR2587- restricts actions of National Labor Board. (lobbyists)
HR 2401- restricts any EPA delays on air, water and waste compliance. (lobbyists)
HR2681- removes 3 EPA standards on concrete manufacturing plant emissions. (lobbyists)
HR2250- removes EPA regulations on mercury and other hazardous pollutants. (lobbyists)
HR2273- removes restrictions on coal ash disposal. (lobbyists)
Job bills? What a joke! The House republicans have blatantly put out the "For Sale" sign, and the lobbyists are boldly buying legislation from these jerks. They could care less about jobs; their reasons for these bills are obvious to all but a few.
Removing restrictions on everything from mercury to coal ash streams are NOT "jobs bills", it is outright graft and bribery of the House republicans by the corporate interests.
House "jobs bills" my aunt Martha! | OregonLive.com
So basically the Republican "jobs bills" are all aimed at increasing pollution and allowing financial companies to run amuck (again)...?
Between 5 and 25 million jobs ?
Not exactly a precise number is it?
Certainly some jobs, mostly state workers, teachers and whatnot, were saved.
One would think a more accurate estimate would be possible, though.
It's not a "precise" number, Ed because it's a "bullshit" number. Jobs saved? How do you quantify that?
What's amusing to me is that we're given a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been lost if NO stimulus had taken place and then a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been "saved" and the difference is used to show what a success Obama's stimulus was.
You've got a phantom number on one end of your equation...a phantom number on the other...but we're supposed to believe that the number you get from doing the math with these phantom figures is "real". It's a joke. It's why you're getting spreads of "5 to 25 million".
Yep and how many of these supposedly saved jobs were only "saved" until the stimulus money ran out??
Between 5 and 25 million jobs ?
Not exactly a precise number is it?
Certainly some jobs, mostly state workers, teachers and whatnot, were saved.
One would think a more accurate estimate would be possible, though.
It's not a "precise" number, Ed because it's a "bullshit" number. Jobs saved? How do you quantify that?
What's amusing to me is that we're given a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been lost if NO stimulus had taken place and then a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been "saved" and the difference is used to show what a success Obama's stimulus was.
You've got a phantom number on one end of your equation...a phantom number on the other...but we're supposed to believe that the number you get from doing the math with these phantom figures is "real". It's a joke. It's why you're getting spreads of "5 to 25 million".
Who cares?
It's obvious that the stimulus saved the economy.
That's why the right wing Chamber of Commerce supported it.
If it's "obvious", Chris...then why are you guys using the bullshit numbers in the first place? What's obvious, is that the stimilus spent a trillion dollars we had to borrow and did very little to stimulate the economy. The shovel ready jobs weren't shovel ready at all and once the money ran out for unemployent benefit extensions and funds to keep public sector workers employed this Administration is back looking for MORE stimulus spending because the economy is teetering on the precipice of a double dip recession.
I keep hearing about these republican House "jobs" bills that are stuck in the Senate, so I checked them out at GOP.gov. They are as follows:
HR872- reduces EPA regulations on pesticides, fungicides and rodenticides. (lobbyists)
HR910- prohibits EPA regulation of greenhouse gasses. (lobbyists)
HR37- prohibits FCC from implementing net neutrality. (lobbyists)
HR 1230- requires Dept. of Interior to open more oil and gas leases offshore. (lobbyists)
HR1229- directs Dept. of Interior to issue more offshore drilling permits. (lobbyists)
HR1231- reverses President's offshore drilling moratorium. (lobbyists, and already done by President)
HR2021- eliminates EPA delays in Alaskan offshore drilling. (lobbyists)
HR2018- allows states to overrule EPA standards on water pollution. (lobbyists)
HR1315- allows House Financial Council to set aside any federal regulation. (lobbyists)
HR1938- demands immediate approval of Keystone XL pipeline w/o Executive study, (lobbyists)
HR2587- restricts actions of National Labor Board. (lobbyists)
HR 2401- restricts any EPA delays on air, water and waste compliance. (lobbyists)
HR2681- removes 3 EPA standards on concrete manufacturing plant emissions. (lobbyists)
HR2250- removes EPA regulations on mercury and other hazardous pollutants. (lobbyists)
HR2273- removes restrictions on coal ash disposal. (lobbyists)
Job bills? What a joke! The House republicans have blatantly put out the "For Sale" sign, and the lobbyists are boldly buying legislation from these jerks. They could care less about jobs; their reasons for these bills are obvious to all but a few.
Removing restrictions on everything from mercury to coal ash streams are NOT "jobs bills", it is outright graft and bribery of the House republicans by the corporate interests.
House "jobs bills" my aunt Martha! | OregonLive.com
So basically the Republican "jobs bills" are all aimed at increasing pollution and allowing financial companies to run amuck (again)...?
The Republican bills are aimed at stopping ill conceived legislation that would have burdened US businesses with regulations that none of their competitors would have faced. In case you hadn't noticed, even Barack Obama had enough sense to rein in the zealots over at the EPA because he knew that letting them go ahead with their proposed new green house gas standards would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs. You make it sound like Republicans want to do away with ALL pollution controls plus all controls on the markets and that is a load of crap.
Listening
Gold Member
- Aug 27, 2011
- 14,989
- 1,650
- 260
good grief. between 5to 25 million..
couldn't they come UP WITH A NUMBER or are we suppose to pick one.
So yeah sure...I believe it, really..
I think it is much closer to the 25 million figure.
The country was headed into a deflationary spiral before the stimulus.
The stimulus saved us from another Great Depression.
You think ????
I don't believe that.
Why not make your case for the 25 milion that shows where the CBO is wrong.
Then we can fire all of them and hire you to do their work.
Listening
Gold Member
- Aug 27, 2011
- 14,989
- 1,650
- 260
Between 5 and 25 million jobs ?
Not exactly a precise number is it?
Certainly some jobs, mostly state workers, teachers and whatnot, were saved.
One would think a more accurate estimate would be possible, though.
It's not a "precise" number, Ed because it's a "bullshit" number. Jobs saved? How do you quantify that?
What's amusing to me is that we're given a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been lost if NO stimulus had taken place and then a made up number of how many jobs were "guesstimated" to have been "saved" and the difference is used to show what a success Obama's stimulus was.
You've got a phantom number on one end of your equation...a phantom number on the other...but we're supposed to believe that the number you get from doing the math with these phantom figures is "real". It's a joke. It's why you're getting spreads of "5 to 25 million".
Who cares?
It's obvious that the stimulus saved the economy.
That's why the right wing Chamber of Commerce supported it.
Nothing is obvious. The stimulus did not save the economy.
I can't see how you can be so beholden to this stupid article of faith.
ShaklesOfBigGov
Restore the Republic
Did your home buyers application include a box to check that said without this credit I wouldn't be buying a home? Or did you just ascribe a motive to all your clients to suit your agenda?
My clients told me.
You would have to be pretty stupid to think that giving people an $8,000 tax incentive would not be pretty motivating.
Out of all those tax incentives you mentioned, how many of them are able to TODAY still meet their mortgages without any financial difficulties? Ever keep track of that estimate? Here is some recent real estate news for you:
"The October foreclosure numbers continue to show strong signs that foreclosure activity is coming out of the rain delay we've been in for the past year as lenders corrected foreclosure paperwork and processing problems," said James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac. "However, recent state court rulings and new state laws keep changing the rules of the foreclosure game on the fly, creating more uncertainty in the housing market and threatening to prolong the road to a robust real estate recovery."
Foreclosure Defaults Are Rising Again - UPI.com
Foreclosure Activity Increases for Third Straight Month
Also take a look at these figures, as they sort of put a big damper on the economic success of the stimulus:
Underemployment Rate: 18.30% for Nov 21 2011
Underemployment Rate is at 18.30%, compared to 18.40% yesterday and 17.60% last year. Jan 20th 2010, one year into Obama's term, the Underemployment rate was at 20%.
http://ycharts.com/indicators/under...t_date_object=2006-08-1&end_month=8&end_day=1
Last edited:
Listening
Gold Member
- Aug 27, 2011
- 14,989
- 1,650
- 260
Did your home buyers application include a box to check that said without this credit I wouldn't be buying a home? Or did you just ascribe a motive to all your clients to suit your agenda?
My clients told me.
You would have to be pretty stupid to think that giving people an $8,000 tax incentive would not be pretty motivating.
Out of all those tax incentives you mentioned, how many of them are able to TODAY still meet their mortgages without any financial difficulties? Ever keep track of that estimate? Here is some recent real estate news for you:
"The October foreclosure numbers continue to show strong signs that foreclosure activity is coming out of the rain delay we've been in for the past year as lenders corrected foreclosure paperwork and processing problems," said James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac. "However, recent state court rulings and new state laws keep changing the rules of the foreclosure game on the fly, creating more uncertainty in the housing market and threatening to prolong the road to a robust real estate recovery."
Foreclosure Defaults Are Rising Again - UPI.com
Foreclosure Activity Increases for Third Straight Month
Also take a look at these figures, as they sort of put a big damper on the economic success of the stimulus:
Underemployment Rate: 18.30% for Nov 21 2011
Underemployment Rate is at 18.30%, compared to 18.40% yesterday and 17.60% last year. Jan 20th 2010, one year into Obama's term, the Underemployment rate was at 20%.
http://ycharts.com/indicators/under...ar=2011&start_year=2006&end_month=8&end_day=1
That will bring some ink (Chris tends to act like an octopus when he is cornered....only the ink is in the form of those moronic graphs he keeps posting).
8537
VIP Member
man that Obama supposedly SAVED a lot of shit with OTHER PEOPLES MONIES...what a hero that makes him eh?
It does.
When an economy goes into a deflationary spiral, the government HAS to be the demand of last resort.
thats not what Keynes said, he didn't trumpet CONSUMER stimulus....but you knew that right?
.
Oh really? What type of stimulus, exactly, did Keynes "trumpet"?
Liability
Locked Account.
The Obama Stimulus Bills saved over a billion jobs.
And it created another four or five billion jobs.
I'd be happy about that but nobody has any time to do anything other than work anymore.
And it created another four or five billion jobs.
I'd be happy about that but nobody has any time to do anything other than work anymore.
ShaklesOfBigGov
Restore the Republic
"getting out of the way of free enterprise"
The exact thing that fucked us in this world wide economic crash was deregulation.
Just how can people be so very fact adverse?
It's government interference that created this economic disaster. Did we forget about what transpired with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac already?
The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) forces banks to make loans in poor communities, loans that banks may otherwise reject as financially unsound. Under the CRA, banks must convince a set of bureaucracies that they are not engaging in discrimination, a charge that the act encourages any CRA-recognized community group to bring forward. Otherwise, any merger or expansion the banks attempt will likely be denied. But what counts as discrimination?
According to one enforcement agency, "discrimination exists when a lender's underwriting policies contain arbitrary or outdated criteria that effectively disqualify many urban or lower-income minority applicants." Note that these "arbitrary or outdated criteria" include most of the essentials of responsible lending: income level, income verification, credit history and savings history--the very factors lenders are now being criticized for ignoring.
The government has promoted bad loans not just through the stick of the CRA but through the carrot of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which purchase, securitize and guarantee loans made by lenders and whose debt is itself implicitly guaranteed by the federal government.
The Government Did It - Forbes.com
The Trillion-Dollar Bank Shakedown That Bodes Ill for Cities by Howard Husock, City Journal Winter 2000
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
That's a great chart. You can really tell when Obamacare passed.
We'll get decent job growth back after Obamacare is repealed, after Obama is gone.
- Thread starter
- #257
That's a great chart. You can really tell when Obamacare passed.
We'll get decent job growth back after Obamacare is repealed, after Obama is gone.
The Affordable Healthcare Act has nothing to do with job creation.
And we are going to have more job growth now that consumer spending is up.
Nice try at trying to smear healthcare reform.
It's what you are good at.
Wiseacre
Retired USAF Chief
" The Affordable Healthcare Act has nothing to do with job creation. "
Are you sure? Coulda sworn Nancy Pelosi and other dems said it did.
And BTW, I wouldn't count on consumer spending staying up. Hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. Can't see any reason forit.
Are you sure? Coulda sworn Nancy Pelosi and other dems said it did.
And BTW, I wouldn't count on consumer spending staying up. Hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. Can't see any reason forit.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #259
" The Affordable Healthcare Act has nothing to do with job creation. "
Are you sure? Coulda sworn Nancy Pelosi and other dems said it did.
And BTW, I wouldn't count on consumer spending staying up. Hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. Can't see any reason forit.
That is because you don't read enough.
Americans paid off $1 trillion dollars of personal debt this year.
Plenty of pent up demand.
And here it comes....
Wiseacre
Retired USAF Chief
" The Affordable Healthcare Act has nothing to do with job creation. "
Are you sure? Coulda sworn Nancy Pelosi and other dems said it did.
And BTW, I wouldn't count on consumer spending staying up. Hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. Can't see any reason forit.
That is because you don't read enough.
Americans paid off $1 trillion dollars of personal debt this year.
Plenty of pent up demand.
And here it comes....
Hope you're right.
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