Changed my mind on Gary Johnson

[g5000]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

Yet you can't say what they are?

Isn't that informational... thanks for the private thoughts.

open borders and shit. I guess its typical libertarian rhetoric, but that shit was crazy.
"I want to be able to see an American truck going across the border meeting a Mexican truck going across the border at 60MPH and waving at each other" or something like that. Just one example.

Yes, that is typical Libertarian rhetoric.

So, in short, you supported the Libertarian candidate until you found out what Libertarianism is.

 

[NightFox]

Changed my mind on Gary Johnson

Bah, You're just pissed because Gary picked Weld over You.

..... on the bright side, I heard it was a very close decision.

 

[TNHarley]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

Yet you can't say what they are?

Isn't that informational... thanks for the private thoughts.

open borders and shit. I guess its typical libertarian rhetoric, but that shit was crazy.
"I want to be able to see an American truck going across the border meeting a Mexican truck going across the border at 60MPH and waving at each other" or something like that. Just one example.

Yes, that is typical Libertarian rhetoric.

So, in short, you supported the Libertarian candidate until you found out what Libertarianism is.

No. I knew he was nut job level on immigration. With Johnson, he was kind of a "he is the only sane person" kinda thing. When he started saying Trump was racist, I started getting an icky feeling and researched past quotes and such. It was just too much.

 

[g5000]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

Yet you can't say what they are?

Isn't that informational... thanks for the private thoughts.

open borders and shit. I guess its typical libertarian rhetoric, but that shit was crazy.
"I want to be able to see an American truck going across the border meeting a Mexican truck going across the border at 60MPH and waving at each other" or something like that. Just one example.

Yes, that is typical Libertarian rhetoric.

So, in short, you supported the Libertarian candidate until you found out what Libertarianism is.

No. I knew he was nut job level on immigration. With Johnson, he was kind of a "he is the only sane person" kinda thing. When he started saying Trump was racist, I started getting an icky feeling and researched past quotes and such. It was just too much.

And if you searched on Johnson even more, you would find even more icky Libertarian rhetoric.

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is. Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

 

[NightFox]

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is.

Please feel free enlighten the rest of the class regarding the specifics of libertarianism....

 

[g5000]

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is.

Please feel free enlighten the rest of the class regarding the specifics of libertarianism....

I edited my post to add some examples. But here they are again: Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

 

[g5000]

As a long time conservative who was once a political operative, I have rubbed elbows with Libertarians for several decades. I am thoroughly familiar with their belief system.

 

[Crixus]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

I had the same problem in 2008.

 

[TNHarley]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

Yet you can't say what they are?

Isn't that informational... thanks for the private thoughts.

open borders and shit. I guess its typical libertarian rhetoric, but that shit was crazy.
"I want to be able to see an American truck going across the border meeting a Mexican truck going across the border at 60MPH and waving at each other" or something like that. Just one example.

Yes, that is typical Libertarian rhetoric.

So, in short, you supported the Libertarian candidate until you found out what Libertarianism is.

No. I knew he was nut job level on immigration. With Johnson, he was kind of a "he is the only sane person" kinda thing. When he started saying Trump was racist, I started getting an icky feeling and researched past quotes and such. It was just too much.

And if you searched on Johnson even more, you would find even more icky Libertarian rhetoric.

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is. Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

Lol ok

 

[NightFox]

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is.

Please feel free enlighten the rest of the class regarding the specifics of libertarianism....

I edited my post to add some examples. But here they are again: Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

Thanks for at least having the courage to take a stab at it , unfortunately you are way off base since libertarianism is NOT a set of specific public policy prescriptions, it's a school of philosophy based on foundational principles (most notably respect for property rights and the non-aggression principle) that has roots stretching back to classical liberalism (which has it's roots stretching back to the age of enlightenment); which based on the interpretation of individuals can lead to different conclusions on any given question regarding public policy.

Which explains why you have many different sub-schools of libertarianism and why we libertarians argue with each other so often as to how our common principles apply to any given question regarding public policy (or economics, or the size, existence of and role(s) of government, etc..,etc..,).

Gary Johnson's (or even the LP as a whole) views on public policy don't represent the views of all libertarians or even a majority of them.

 

[OldLady]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch. I just cant do it..
Looks like I wont be voting at all.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
You care too much to do nothing. Vote to stop the worst candidate or do a write in. That will also deny your vote to the two you detest, but at least you have spoken.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch.

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And if you searched on Johnson even more, you would find even more icky Libertarian rhetoric.

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is. Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

Some of those positions are valid and shared by many people other than just libertarians. Some of those positions are held only be extremists who exist in every political movement.

 

[TNHarley]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch.

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

I don't have a problem with either. I think there is a time and place for both. After all, isn't the goal of protectionism to be able to compete with the free market?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch.

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

I don't have a problem with either. I think there is a time and place for both. After all, isn't the goal of protectionism to be able to compete with the free market?

If you engage in protectionism the market isn't free.

 

[TNHarley]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch.

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

I don't have a problem with either. I think there is a time and place for both. After all, isn't the goal of protectionism to be able to compete with the free market?

If you engage in protectionism the market isn't free.

Obviously. I said "the goal".

 

[g5000]

I thought I could deal with his immigration stances. Then, I read some comments from him from a decade or so ago and I lost touch.

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

I don't have a problem with either. I think there is a time and place for both. After all, isn't the goal of protectionism to be able to compete with the free market?

Protectionism is the antonym of free markets!

The goal of protectionism is to give an unfair advantage, not to compete in a free market.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Was it too much mental strain to elaborate?

My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders.

Q: In California, there was a backlash against illegal immigrants. Voters passed a proposition that would deny them medical & other services.
A: It wouldn't be a problem if they were legal, so the process to make them legal should be easier.
Q: Many Americans fear the flood of immigrants that would follow.
A: They would come over and take jobs that we don't want. They would become taxpayers. They're just pursuing dreams---the same dreams we all have. They work hard. What's wrong with that?
The second one wasn't really crazy, per se. However, the mindset is.

He's exactly right. I don't see the problem.

It sounds to me like what you want is protectionism as opposed to free market capitalism.

I don't have a problem with either. I think there is a time and place for both. After all, isn't the goal of protectionism to be able to compete with the free market?

If you engage in protectionism the market isn't free.

Obviously. I said "the goal".

I know what you said and it logically made no sense.

Based on your comments, it sounds like Trump is your guy.

 

[g5000]

And if you searched on Johnson even more, you would find even more icky Libertarian rhetoric.

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is. Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

Some of those positions are valid and shared by many people other than just libertarians. Some of those positions are held only be extremists who exist in every political movement.

Those are the official Libertarian Party platform.

 

[g5000]

It's pretty plain you didn't know what Libertarianism is.

Please feel free enlighten the rest of the class regarding the specifics of libertarianism....

I edited my post to add some examples. But here they are again: Legalize all drugs, abolish the FDA and the Fed and the FAA and the USDA and every federal agency except the Post Office, repeal all federal environmental and safety regulations, repeal federal laws banning child labor, unlimited immigration, shrink the military down to the size of a cub scout troop, and so forth.

Thanks for at least having the courage to take a stab at it , unfortunately you are way off base

Nope. I am dead-on accurate.

Looks like you don't know what Libertarianism is, either.

Allow me to elucidate:

We support repeal of laws that impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws, so-called "protective" labor legislation for women and children, & governmental restrictions on the establishment of private day-care centers. We deplore government-fostered forced retirement, which robs the elderly of the right to work. We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and "aid to the poor" programs.

Libertarian Party on Jobs

We should replace harmful government agencies like the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) with more agile, free-market alternatives.

Healthcare | Libertarian Party

If the US were to pursue a policy of defending its own borders while avoiding foreign intervention, we could realistically reduce our defense budget to as little as $125 billion over the next five years.

Libertarian Party on Defense




How do you feel about legalizing crack cocaine?

We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Platform | Libertarian Party






Eliminate all federal environmental regulations:

Pollution of other people's property is a violation of individual rights. Strict liability, not arbitrary government standards, should regulate pollution. We demand the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.

Libertarian Party on Environment





They would end all workplace safety regulations:

We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act. This law denies the right to liberty and property to both employer and employee, and it interferes in their private contractual relations.

National Platform of the Libertarian Party




More fun stuff:

We oppose all so-called "consumer protection" legislation which infringes upon voluntary trade, and call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

1972 Libertarian Party Platform - LPedia

We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration, which has jeopardized safety by arrogating to itself a monopoly of safety regulation and enforcement. We call for privatizing the air traffic control system and transferring the FAA's other functions to private agencies.

1992 National Platform of the Libertarian Party - Critiques Of Libertarianism

We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration and particularly its policies of mandating specific nutritional requirements and denying the right of manufacturers to make non-fraudulent claims concerning their products.

1992 National Platform of the Libertarian Party - Critiques Of Libertarianism