Cheating on your Lover

[Sherry]

#3 is a very female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.

A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.

We don't disagree, but what do you mean by closure?

I think for men, it is ejaculation. For women, it is how they are handled after reaching climax. Men don't bask in the glow for anywhere near as long.

 

[goldcatt]

Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.

Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?

bump

Asked and answered.

Of course. Hell, I've done it myself. And if I were single, there's sure as hell no shame in it. If I were in a relationship where there was no expectation of fidelity, there's no shame in it. If I were in a committed relationship and went out to just get laid? I don't think I'd be ashamed of wanting sex, but I probably would feel guilty as hell for breaking my word and ashamed of hurting my partner, of course. But to live in guilt and shame forever? Why?

It's situational. But I fail to see how feeling shame forever is necessary. If it's that negative an experience, it's certainly something to learn from. How is perpetual shame constructive?

 

[FLGoldilocks]

Very insightful. Would you mind expanding on the last sentence??

I'd be happy to. Just didn't want to sound like a know it all or anything. lol

Ok, so before I start, my boyfriend, D and I, agreed before we started dating on how we, for our relationship, define cheating: Basically, anything we wouldn't want the other to know about, is cheating. Of course, as you can see by our broad wording, technically, buying shoes at wallyworld or a new computer game and then hiding it could, theoretically, be cheating. So, I guess for us it's better to say that we just have a rule that if we would hide it, it's wrong, and it applies across the board.

But, given that our feelings is "if we wouldn't want the other to know" that leaves it pretty open. It really boils down to intent.

Sex, obviously, is cheating. All the little variations on sex, oral, anal, heavy petting, french kissing, those are all the obvious ones.

But what about a kiss? Just a closed mouth peck on the lips or the cheek? Well, what's the intent? If I'm kissing my kid, my mom or dad, my cousin Joe, clearly my intent is just to greet my family member or express my affection for them, so that's not cheating. But that same kiss, given to, say my friend Steve whom I once dated and had a sexual relationship with, could be cheating. Is my intent behind that kiss just to greet an old friend that I haven't seen in however long? Or is my intent to see if he still has feelings for me? That defines if it's cheating or not.

Or let's say D and I are having problems (for the record, we're fine! This is all hypothetical just to make my point. ), and I start talking to that old friend Steve. If all I'm doing is asking Steve to be a sounding board to let me vent a bit, or to give me a guy's perspective to help me understand better where D is coming from, that's probably cool. But, if I'm telling Steve things that I won't share with D, then that is emotional cheating. I'm sharing things with someone outside my relationship that should be shared with my partner. I'm depriving my partner of something he deserves and needs in our relationship. If I'm talking to Steve in hopes that he'll meet those needs that D isn't, or in hopes that those conversations might turn to more, that's cheating. Those are things I should be expecting from D, and/or telling D that I need.

Basically, I think cheating is really anytime you take something that should be directed to, or a part of your relationship, and put it elsewhere, with another person, that's cheating. I'm not talking about sharing your drag racing hobby with your buddy, or going to book club, but things that most people would define as being "relationship stuff". The emotions, the sexual aspect, the close sharing, the commitment, intimacy, those things directed toward someone other than your partner all constitute cheating.

Oh, let me add...things that start out as "not cheating" can turn into "cheating". For example, let's say that a couple decides they want to have a threesome. If both parties have agreed, and are comfortable with it, that's not cheating. But, if one partner ends up being completely ignored during said threesome, that is cheating. Or if one partner later hooks up with the third person without their partner's knowledge or consent, that's cheating. This is why I think it's good for couples to discuss things like this and determine their position on these types of issues before they get together. D and I agreed from well before we officially began dating that neither of us likes to share, nor do we want to be shared. This eliminates any confusion, doubts, or possibilities of anyone getting hurt later by feeling forced to do something like that when they don't really want to.

 

[LuckyDan]

A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.

We don't disagree, but what do you mean by closure?

I think for men, it is ejaculation. For women, it is how they are handled after reaching climax. Men don't bask in the glow for anywhere near as long.

Ah. Again we agree. Thanks.

 

[Amanda]

TMI about your sex life, Amanda.

No no no....keep going....


Need to borrow my camera?

Actually we have a water proof camera which comes in handy for more reasons than 1 might imagine without thinking about it a bit...

 

[Shadow]

I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.

Why is that? What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?

What would you describe as "any other offense"? Because, not taking care of your family is also a deal breaker for me. So, I'm wondering what you view as a deal breaker..if it's not fidelity?

 

[Amanda]

TMI about your sex life, Amanda.

No no no....keep going....


Need to borrow my camera?

seriously---there is no such thing as TMI as long as it's honest.

I really didn't think it was TMI... I didn't go into any details at all.

 

[Shadow]

1. foreplay
2. fucking
3. snuggling

#3 is a very female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.

A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.

I agree with this. It's the whole story in the romance novel...not just the juicy parts that women respond to.

 

[Ava]

Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?

If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.

And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.

Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.

LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women.

 

[Sherry]

And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.

Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.

LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women.

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

 

[Ava]

Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.

LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women.

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

 

[dilloduck]

[/B]

LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women.

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

You've been lying to me ?

 

[Sherry]

[/B]

LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women.

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

What was his name again??

 

[Ava]

And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.

Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.

SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?

There are many reasons for marriage vows. Tradition, religion, etc., but only one matters to me and that is.....it confirms in my mind that the man who professes his love for me, really means it, otherwise he would not risk taking this legal and binding chance on love and possibly having it ruin him, in one way or another, down the line.

 

[Ava]

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

What was his name again??

Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it? Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!

 

[dilloduck]

Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.

SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?

There are many reasons for marriage vows. Tradition, religion, etc., but only one matters to me and that is.....it confirms in my mind that the man who professes his love for me, really means it, otherwise he would not risk taking this legal and binding chance on love and possibly having it ruin him, in one way or another, down the line.

ie reassurance----legal even

 

[Ava]

Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

You've been lying to me ?

 

[Sherry]

Lol, Sherry, nada! And that crush was not a reality crush, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I do love, like and understand...men. *W00*

What was his name again??

Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it? Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!

Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. Now I have to go masturbate.

 

[dilloduck]

What was his name again??

Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it? Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!

Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. Now I have to go masturbate.

You must resist those evil desires--be strong woman !

 

[Ava]

What was his name again??

Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it? Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!

Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. Now I have to go masturbate.

Always a good thing....