Child Support as political pawn.

[Annie]

JP Cusick Sr « JP Cusick Runs Again

Truly narcissistic and unable to take responsibility. Funny thing though, go to his own site and this liberal is pushing anti-feminism book co-authored by Phyllis Schaffley. LOL!

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Seems to me that we should, as a nation, be ensuring that joint custody of children is the standard, with primary custody only being given to one parent over another in exceptional circumstances. Children need both parents and both parents should be equally financially responsible. Not rocket science. Parents who refuse to support their kids should go to prison. Those with genuine financial problems, such as sudden unemployment or having a substantial cut in pay, should be assisted.

We really need to put the children first.

I agree 100%. I think a child needs a mother and a father figure growing up. Regardless of how the parents feel about each other-most of the time the mother is the best mother figure, and the father the best father figure. Unless one parent is unfit to be a parent (drug addict, child abuser), custody should be equal. One week at one parent's place-the next week at the other's. I think this is a fair deal for the parents AND is more fair, and healthier for the child.

who cares about fair when a kid is involved, and how the hell is bouncing a kid back and forth maniacally *healthier* for the kid? You have an odd idea of healthy.

Oh please, it's not like the child would be going to a totally different home every other week. They'd have 2 homes, the same two homes. How is this NOT healthy? I'd argue a boy being raised primarily by a mother, who's single, and only seeing his father every other weekend would be much worse for his health.

I'm really interested in your argument of how a child living at their other parents house every other week is unhealthy for the child. How is it stressful or hectic for the child?

 

[grunt11b]

that's bogus. i have zero respect for people who don't honor their child support obligations.

There are some kinds of respect which are not worth having.

As like in the Child Support where the custodial gives a kind of respect when they do get paid and yet the custodial gives a very different disrespectful regard when they do not get paid the Child Support loot.

So that kind of "respect" whether given or not is totally dependent on cash money and it has no other value.

What I suggest is a different type which is called "self-respect" which in not dependent on the whims of others and not on the pocketbook of others.

The custodial needs to stop accepting the legally stolen Child Support by every means possible and then reclaim their self respect.

Then I say the separated parents need to resist the Child Support thievery by every reasonable means and then regain their self respect.

It is important to recognize that it is the law which has violated those families, and so stop fighting one parent against the other parent, and stand up against the real enemy which is the intrusive and immoral Child Support law.

The kind of respect which can be bought and sold is a kind which is not worth having.

Dude, even though you're a Democrat, you're my hero right now. But I dont buy that you're the real JP Cusick, I think you're campaigning for him right now though.

 

[grunt11b]

Parents who abdicate their responsibility to pay child support (be they mothers OR fathers) should be charged with child abuse and thrown in jail. They are scum and I have no use for them.

Both parents should be held responsible, not just one "It takes two to tango". I know of one guy who spends over $600 a month, plus he takes what he has extra and does things with his kids, and all he ever has left over is enough money to pay his bills with, while his ex-wife lays around on her lazy ass getting a lazy check and when the child support comes in she goes to the tanning bed or on a shopping spree. The money rarely goes to the kids, hardly ever.
Alot of woman these days use their crotch as an ATM machine, and that is wrong in itself. I feel they should be made to show receipts for what they spend it on, and the amount spent on stuff that is not for the kids should be deducted from the next child support payment.

I agree with you 100% but a progam like that will never happen because it will require more babysitting on behalf of the government to track where these moneys go and what it is spent on.

Not really, they should be mandated to mail the receipts in once a month to the bureau of child support enforcement, and they can determine if the spending is justified or not.

 

[grunt11b]

Jesus H Christ on a Popsicle stick.
"Entitlement program?!"
Cheeeze, dad, you knocked mom up, ran like the wind, and now you don't want to feed me?
I'm SHOCKED.
Appalled, even.

I've never missed a payment, and I get my kids every weekend "Not just the every other weekend like the court order says" I also get them on my vacations in the summer. I'm not the deadbeat, my ex is.
And that guy I was talking about above?...yeah that's me, I didn't want to put it out there like that, but now that you said what you did what the hell.

How is your ex the
"dead beat?"
I've been on 2 sides of this. My daughter's father was the model dad. We never went to court, and he never gave me a dime. He bought her everything. He picked her up every weekend, at first, until the diapers weren't an issue, one night a week, then, once when she was toilet trained, two. He also got to be the source of all good and fun things while I did the mundane shit such as keeping a roof over her head, the heat on, and food on the table.

My son's dad, the late ex husband was WAY more interesting. HE paid, sometimes, picked his son up, sometimes, brought me to court over rights he sporadically exercised, put his son on the phone to "say goodbye to mommy" when he was supposedly running off to Canada with him, a little something the local NOR the state authorities would touch given the domestic nature of the problem.

When I left him, I had the presence of mind to duck the dining room table. Because I ducked, they wouldn't arrest him.

I completely understand why YOU believe the system is screwed. Do you even CARE why I think so too?

Of course I do. But that is where the system is broken, they need to enforce some of these ridiculous laws on the deadbeats, not people like me who do everything that we can to be a bigger part of our childrens lives and pay our child support and much more. I even paid to keep their moms water on this winter for them, and she has remarried to someone who makes more money than I do, and I make very good money, now how is that right? What the hell do they do with their money? But the judge dont wanna hear that now does he? Hell no he doesn't....I'm the asshole who needs to be punished for being a good father by paying even more money every three years in court so she can blow it all on stupid shit.
The hardest thing to be in west virginia is a divorced white male.

 

[grunt11b]

I've never missed a payment, and I get my kids every weekend "Not just the every other weekend like the court order says" I also get them on my vacations in the summer. I'm not the deadbeat, my ex is.
And that guy I was talking about above?...yeah that's me, I didn't want to put it out there like that, but now that you said what you did what the hell.

How is your ex the
"dead beat?"
I've been on 2 sides of this. My daughter's father was the model dad. We never went to court, and he never gave me a dime. He bought her everything. He picked her up every weekend, at first, until the diapers weren't an issue, one night a week, then, once when she was toilet trained, two. He also got to be the source of all good and fun things while I did the mundane shit such as keeping a roof over her head, the heat on, and food on the table.

My son's dad, the late ex husband was WAY more interesting. HE paid, sometimes, picked his son up, sometimes, brought me to court over rights he sporadically exercised, put his son on the phone to "say goodbye to mommy" when he was supposedly running off to Canada with him, a little something the local NOR the state authorities would touch given the domestic nature of the problem.

When I left him, I had the presence of mind to duck the dining room table. Because I ducked, they wouldn't arrest him.

I completely understand why YOU believe the system is screwed. Do you even CARE why I think so too?

I have to ask a question, are we at a point now where men and women are incapitable and cannot live together? our divorce rates are through the roof, it seems the only marriages that work are where one partner is forced to be submissive to the other, like in the Middle East.

Check out number 40.

1963 Communist Goals

The communist goals were entered into the Congressional record by Albert Herlong, Jr. (a Floridian who served in Congress from 1949-69).

1) US acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war

2) US willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war

3) Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the US would be a demonstration of "moral strength"

4) Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5) Extension of long term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites

6) Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination

7) Grant recognition of Red China, and admission of Red China to the UN.

8) Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the UN

9) Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the US has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress

10) Allow all Soviet Satellites individual representation in the UN

11) Promote the UN as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the UN as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo)

12) Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party

13) Do away with loyalty oaths

14) Continue giving Russia access to the US Patent Office

15) Capture one or both of the political parties in the US

16) Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17) Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism, and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in text books.

18) Gain control of all student newspapers

19) Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20) Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21) Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22) Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings", substitute shapeless, awkward, and meaningless forms.

23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art".

24) Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25) Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography, and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26) Present Homosexuality, degeneracy, and promiscuity as "normal, natural, and healthy".

27) Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch"

28) Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state"

29) Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30) Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man".

31) Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture:" Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32) Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33) Eliminate all laws or procedures, which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34) Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35) Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI

36) Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37) Infiltrate and gain control of big business

38) Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.

39) Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40) Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41) Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42) Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political, or social problems.

43) Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44) Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45) Repeal the Connally Reservation so the US can not prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

These bastards have been at it for over 80 years in this country, but dumbasses keep voting them in.

 

[grunt11b]

My brother was never married to his ex fiance and they had a kid together they had an agreement they both signed but he never had it notarized and she took him to court and he was ordered to pay 236$ a month in child support when he was making minimum wage he fell behind and they suspended his license. They would not allow him to see his daughter they would not set up visitation for him and he could not get help with a lawyer to help him. Its been since December since he saw his daughter who just turned 4 all because his ex is a real bitch and there is no court forced visitation. So yeah you are right OP.

He can still get a lawyer, he will just have to get one on the down low, and when I say down low I mean a public lawyer who represents low income folks. It wont cost him anything to retain one of these lawyers either. Let him know to check in on this and I wish the best of luck to him.

 

[grunt11b]

JP Cusick Sr « JP Cusick Runs Again

Truly narcissistic and unable to take responsibility. Funny thing though, go to his own site and this liberal is pushing anti-feminism book co-authored by Phyllis Schaffley. LOL!

Please tell me you dont really believe that's the real cusick.

 

[JP Cusick]

Really? Seems like most are caused by frivolous spending and cheating and addictions of one sort or another. Of course there are also the abusers, but so much nicer to blame state law.

You are correct that many if not most couples / parents break-up for such reasons but then the State laws jump into their relationship problems and the law turns disputes into legalized stone-brick-walls which violate the human parenting relationships.

It is similar to having children that misbehave - so some times a harsh spanking does work and the child(ren) grow up to follow orders and to do as told.

But a more healthy method instead of force (as in spanking) is that the children can be taught right from wrong where they are not just following orders and just doing as they are told.

When parents break-up then we as a society needs to find ways to help the families to reconcile or at least to stay in contact and not to inflict punishments against parents as if the parents were just misbehaving children which they are not.

The Child Support and Custody laws are the brute-force of laws which physically and factually violate the parents and their families, and it undermines the parenting which takes simple human parenting relationship disputes and turns it into a legalized divorce and destruction of the family.

Parenting including broken parenting needs our help and consideration but not the force of law.

.

 

[JP Cusick]

JP Cusick Sr « JP Cusick Runs Again

Truly narcissistic and unable to take responsibility. Funny thing though, go to his own site and this liberal is pushing anti-feminism book co-authored by Phyllis Schaffley. LOL!

Please tell me you dont really believe that's the real cusick.

The person who made that link about me is just a weird Internet heckler who follows me around online.

It is a modern aspect of our new politics to have Internet hecklers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

hmm

I agree with parts of that. There's no sense in putting an unemployed parent in jail b/c they ran out of money, or, in my case, I was making far less than my highest income level when my wife left. If I didn't pay a lawyer to be there I would have been paying ~80% of my current income in CS.

The only real issue I have is custody. In PA, the father must prove that the mother is physically abusive to have a chance at custody. The only other way is for the mother to be a 3 time loser.

but as far as support goes. If the guy simply refuses to pay, he must be punished for theft, or the family is left hanging.

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

A friend of mine had his job "downsized" and he was not making enough to pay the full support. Since he was not making enough the government made him lose his job. Now he pays nothing.

 

[High_Gravity]

Unfortunately I often run into this same attitude as quoted above - in that you see and know of the injustices and you know parents are getting railroaded and abused by the laws and the Child Support process - but then you put on that nasty last sentence which damns them all.

This is the truest meaning of self-righteousness (and I mean to explain and not to offend) in that you see your self as right and I agree that you are right and thereby righteous in this case, but you do not give the same honest regard to the other parents as you give to your self.

The laws do put unemployed parents in jail for Child Support but the law also puts employed parents into jail who can not afford the c/s demands and then those parents become unemployed.

Most poor people including dead-broke parents do work and do have jobs and the Child Support laws attack the parents and demand ridiculous payments even up to 65% and the unjust laws turn parents into criminals.

I agree with you that the custody laws are horrible too and giving custody to one parent means the law is effectively stealing the child(ren) from one parent and then demanding the c/s cash as ransom money or else they will never see their children again.

What the laws really do is destroy the family unit in some pretense of helping children by attacking their parents.

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

A friend of mine had his job "downsized" and he was not making enough to pay the full support. Since he was not making enough the government made him lose his job. Now he pays nothing.

How did they make him lose his job?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There's a difference between, can't pay and won't pay.

If you can't pay, you do get screwed, by getting turned into a criminal.
If you won't pay, you made yourself a criminal, and a jackass on top of it.

A friend of mine had his job "downsized" and he was not making enough to pay the full support. Since he was not making enough the government made him lose his job. Now he pays nothing.

How did they make him lose his job?

They jerked his drivers license and he had no other way to get to work.

 

[High_Gravity]

A friend of mine had his job "downsized" and he was not making enough to pay the full support. Since he was not making enough the government made him lose his job. Now he pays nothing.

How did they make him lose his job?

They jerked his drivers license and he had no other way to get to work.

I know a person that happened to also, they revoked his drivers license because he was behind on support and he ended up losing his job altogether. I don't know how they expect a person to pay child support if they can't drive to work.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How did they make him lose his job?

They jerked his drivers license and he had no other way to get to work.

I know a person that happened to also, they revoked his drivers license because he was behind on support and he ended up losing his job altogether. I don't know how they expect a person to pay child support if they can't drive to work.

"Stupid" is the only logical answer.

 

[High_Gravity]

They jerked his drivers license and he had no other way to get to work.

I know a person that happened to also, they revoked his drivers license because he was behind on support and he ended up losing his job altogether. I don't know how they expect a person to pay child support if they can't drive to work.

"Stupid" is the only logical answer.

That and the people that make these laws can care less about the people in these situations, there is a serious disconnect.

 

[JP Cusick]

How did they make him lose his job?

They jerked his drivers license and he had no other way to get to work.

The laws have many other ways of making a parent to lose their job, as like when the employer gets a Court notice in their mail ordering the employer to garnish the Child Support and the employers then view the worker as being a "deadbeat" even though it is not correct, and the employer is given extra work on their payroll which they do not appreciate.

And another way of making a parent to lose their job is by the law putting the parent into jail on the "work release" program where the parent must go directly to the job and directly home after work which is a difficult strain on everyone involved.

And the law requires parents to go to Court or other ordered arrangements during working hours and the parents have to take off work which strains the job.

They also have the Child support enforcement agents calling up the employers asking questions which the employer does not want to answer and throws huge suspicions or resentments onto the employed parent.

The Child Support is all about taking cash money by force and such force requires a lot of intrusions and controls which violate all involved.

 

[The T]

Child Support as political pawn.

This issue ALSO has a MORAL STIGMA attached to it.

IF you aren't going to be responsible for, or cannot support what comes with having children?

*Don't Have Them* and check your libido at the door.

*That is all...*

 

[JP Cusick]

Child Support as political pawn.

This issue ALSO has a MORAL STIGMA attached to it.

IF you aren't going to be responsible for, or cannot support what comes with having children?

*Don't Have Them* and check your libido at the door.

*That is all...*

The thing about it is that the high moral ground has been set long ago.

As like a really famous big-guy told us all to - "be fruitful and multiply", so now we have people like your self and the interfering laws which say not to have the babies.

So are we morally answerable to you? or to the law? or to our own conscience?

IMO, your claim is immoral and the law is immoral and people need to turn to the highest power for the best advice available, and then view every new baby as a blessing from God.

 

[ogibillm]

Fuck every single one of you assholes on here who think you should get something in return for child support.

You provide child support to contribute to your child's standard of living. You don't get to dictate how it's spent.

why not? as much as some people would like to forget the person sending the check is not some automate machine. he's the father - and if the family were intact he'd have input on how the families funds were spent.

You are obligated to pay it regardless of how badly you fucked up your life, regardless of how shitty a job you have, and regardless of whether or not you get to see your kid. Because whether or not you see your kid, the kid still exists. You might want to write him off because you're mad, and you might not give a shit about him if you can't see him, but that doesn't change anything.

I have not heard of one single deadbeat father ending up in jail. I'd love to see a jail roster that show deadbeat dads who are in jail for failing to pay their child support. The only time that would happen would be in the event of contempt of court, when a judge ORDERS this person to pay, and the person knows he's been ordered to pay, and he has $$ and still won't do it.

And he would deserve to be in jail. He has no problem putting a divet in the cash flow to the kid; likewise, he shouldn't object to having a divet put in his cash flow.

if you owe it and can pay it - it should be done.

however, i do have a bit of a problem with the crippling burden that can be placed on some parents paying child support - and let's face it by default part of child support is parent support too.

there are certainly issues - but by an large i think the system as it is does more good than harm.