Christianity Defined

[LOki]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

 

[defcon4]

LOki
Is the God you you are blaspheming and call "your God" is the same as YHVH? (we could list all 72 names but you know what I am talking about)

 

[LOki]

LOki
Is the God you you are blaspheming and call "your God" is the same as YHVH? (we could list all 72 names but you know what I am talking about)

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

But you seem to recognize the bloodthirsty sadist I'm talking about... and it concerns me not one bit whether that bastard's name is YHVH or Steve; He is a criminal against humanity, and I am His sworn enemy.

 

[defcon4]

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

But you seem to recognize the bloodthirsty sadist I'm talking about... and it concerns me not one bit whether that bastard's name is YHVH or Steve; He is a criminal against humanity, and I am His sworn enemy.

Did you hear about the guy who was pissing against the wind? Well, all his piss was blown back on himself. I guess the wind was stronger than the stream of his piss.

 

[Bonzi]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.
Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering? I think we could.
How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

 

[LOki]

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

But you seem to recognize the bloodthirsty sadist I'm talking about... and it concerns me not one bit whether that bastard's name is YHVH or Steve; He is a criminal against humanity, and I am His sworn enemy.

Did you hear about the guy who was pissing against the wind?

No.

Well, all his piss was blown back on himself. I guess the wind was stronger than the stream of his piss.

I guess.

Did you hear about the obsequious thrall? Well, he was always covered in someone else's piss... and he was happy about it. I guess that what it means to be an obsequious thrall.

 

[LOki]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

 

[Bonzi]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.
Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

 

[LOki]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

Following the premise you set. But, if your God is not taken out of the equation, those narcissistic psychopaths are just avoiding sin--sin against the God who created them in His own divine image.

The same God who murders infants over some slight to His divine vanity. Correct?

 

[Bonzi]

Why would you think a god would watch over you but let children in Africa starve to death?

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

Following the premise you set. But, if your God is not taken out of the equation, those narcissistic psychopaths are just avoiding sin--sin against the God who created them in His own divine image.

The same God who murders infants over some slight to His divine vanity. Correct?

God is God and does not have to answer to man.
Does the clay say to the potter "What are you making"? (Isaiah 45:9)
Trust me, those infants are in glory with the Lord.

 

[LOki]

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

Following the premise you set. But, if your God is not taken out of the equation, those narcissistic psychopaths are just avoiding sin--sin against the God who created them in His own divine image.

The same God who murders infants over some slight to His divine vanity. Correct?

God is God and does not have to answer to man.

Nonsense. Tautology followed by non-sequitur. Literally nonsense.

Does the clay say to the potter "What are you making"? (Isaiah 45:9)
Trust me, those infants are in glory with the Lord.

Perverse rationalization for murder.

 

[Bonzi]

Since you think God is so cruel - let's remove him from the equation.

Done.

Do you not think WE (humans) could help the suffering?

Sure.

I think we could.

Then we agree.

How about we all forego our 4-5 bedroom homes, large screen TVs, vacations etc., and instead live minimalistic lives so people around the world won't starve?

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

Following the premise you set. But, if your God is not taken out of the equation, those narcissistic psychopaths are just avoiding sin--sin against the God who created them in His own divine image.

The same God who murders infants over some slight to His divine vanity. Correct?

God is God and does not have to answer to man.

Nonsense. Tautology followed by non-sequitur. Literally nonsense.

Does the clay say to the potter "What are you making"? (Isaiah 45:9)
Trust me, those infants are in glory with the Lord.

Perverse rationalization for murder.

Well like I told DT, I'm not here for debate or to win a case (court of law) - you can list all kinds of reason for fallacious argument etc. but, if you take God out of the equation as a reality or reputable source, and, he's the most important thing in my life, what do we really have to discuss?

 

[LOki]

Done.

Sure.

Then we agree.

Faulty premise. The starvation around the world is not the result of an imbalance in some zero-sum equation--it never has been.

The starvation in the world is caused by narcissistic psychopaths who are sanctimoniously certain that their very own inspired morality provides sufficient authority for them to rule over their fellows. Historically, this authority was derived from their devotion to their sadistic God of human suffering and misery.

These days they're mostly just dicks.

Yet, we could still help.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Also, evil men are the cause of this suffering, by your own words.

Following the premise you set. But, if your God is not taken out of the equation, those narcissistic psychopaths are just avoiding sin--sin against the God who created them in His own divine image.

The same God who murders infants over some slight to His divine vanity. Correct?

God is God and does not have to answer to man.

Nonsense. Tautology followed by non-sequitur. Literally nonsense.

Does the clay say to the potter "What are you making"? (Isaiah 45:9)
Trust me, those infants are in glory with the Lord.

Perverse rationalization for murder.

Well like I told DT, I'm not here for debate or to win a case (court of law) - you can list all kinds of reason for fallacious argument etc. but, if you take God out of the equation as a reality or reputable source, and, he's the most important thing in my life, what do we really have to discuss?

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

 

[defcon4]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

God is incorporeal. He is not torturing or murdering anybody.Your fallacy lies within envisioning God as a corporeal being, such as an old man sitting on top of fluffy clouds with long white hair and long white beard wrapped in a bed sheet.

 

[Bonzi]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

I did, but then you put Him back in. Either way....

Like I said, God called for the murder of entire groups of people, and, the infants and children are in heavenly glory with Him. If you believe in God, a God that is perfect, he would never do anything wrong or sinful. I have given explanations in the past about this, and will do so again - although it is a waste of time because in your mind, the killing of anyone you PERCEIVE as innocent is wrong no matter what the explanation is. It's an exercise in futility.

God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives

 

[LOki]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

God is incorporeal. He is not torturing or murdering anybody.Your fallacy lies within envisioning God as a corporeal being, such as an old man sitting on top of fluffy clouds with long white hair and long white beard wrapped in a bed sheet.

Nonsense.

This is the nature of your nonsense:

You are saying that "God is incorporeal"; so much so that it is impossible to claim that He is torturing or murdering anybody.

Which is to say your God cannot have any direct effect what-so-ever upon real entities.

Which you're clearly not going to say. You're not going to admit that your God is primarily powerless in reality.

But doing so is fine by me... since that's just the same as admitting that your dopey God is entirely imaginary.

Which just means that every single killing any human has ever performed at the direction of God, is just murder committed by their own hand and entirely of their own volition.

 

[defcon4]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

God is incorporeal. He is not torturing or murdering anybody.Your fallacy lies within envisioning God as a corporeal being, such as an old man sitting on top of fluffy clouds with long white hair and long white beard wrapped in a bed sheet.

Nonsense.

This is the nature of your nonsense:

You are saying that "God is incorporeal"; so much so that it is impossible to claim that He is torturing or murdering anybody.

Which is to say your God cannot have any direct effect what-so-ever upon real entities.

Which you're clearly not going to say. You're not going to admit that your God is primarily powerless in reality.

But doing so is fine by me... since that's just the same as admitting that your dopey God is entirely imaginary.

Which just means that every single killing any human has ever performed at the direction of God, is just murder committed by their own hand and entirely of their own volition.

Who said I have a God? I have never claimed to have a God. Use some Visine to clear your bloodshot eyes to see what I claimed or did not claim. Uh..man... are you way out there or what?

 

[LOki]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

I did, but then you put Him back in. Either way....

Like I said, God called for the murder of entire groups of people, and, the infants and children are in heavenly glory with Him.

Irrelevant to your God being a murderer.

That His victims "are in heavenly glory with" their murderer in no way changes the crime He committed.

You see, ANY murder can claim that their victims are also in heavenly glory with Him, and no one gets a pass for that.

If you believe in God, a God that is perfect, he would never do anything wrong or sinful.

This is retarded for OBVIOUS reasons.

Entirely meaningless.

I have given explanations in the past about this, and will do so again - although it is a waste of time because in your mind, the killing of anyone you PERCEIVE as innocent is wrong no matter what the explanation is.

You're just making this shit up.

It's an exercise in futility.

Maybe it wouldn't be if you could manage to present a cogent point.

God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children,...

And this makes it OK to murder them? Really?

... the death of these children was actually their salvation.

REALLY?!?!?!

So, you're saying that murdering small children and infants is really just "saving" them?

Sounds to me like a perverse rationalization for cold-blooded murder.

CONGRATULATIONS! You have earned your blood-thirsty psychopath credentials. Turn yourself in IMMEDIATELY for permanent confinement, in the interest of the safety of small children and infants.

Thank you.

We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives

Great. You've just made my case....AGAIN!

I roundly reject your blood-thirsty and sadistic religion of human sacrifice. I am an enemy to your tyrannical "God" of torture and human suffering.

AND I SWEAR, if you offer me salvation through the blood of of the Lord, Jesus Christ(TM), I'll say "NO THANK YOU" to this offer to expunge my "sins" in the blood of an innocent--nor shall I place upon him the burdens of sins he has not committed. In other words, I refuse to make a sacrificial animal of any human being -- including Jesus.

 

[LOki]

You took your God out of the equation, not me. Check above.

I'm all for you doing so...don't get me wrong about that.

I assume you're a devotional of this infant murdering God of human torture and misery, based upon your defense of Him. If I'm wrong allow me to apologize first.

But if I am right in assuming, then I propose to you that if you are not yourself some kind of bloodthirsty sadist, perhaps your devotion to your evil God is misplaced.

And if there is no other God to devote yourself to, then let me suggest that being devoted to anything other than the vanity of some divine tyrant might be something worth exploring--it could likely make you a far better human being.

God is incorporeal. He is not torturing or murdering anybody.Your fallacy lies within envisioning God as a corporeal being, such as an old man sitting on top of fluffy clouds with long white hair and long white beard wrapped in a bed sheet.

Nonsense.

This is the nature of your nonsense:

You are saying that "God is incorporeal"; so much so that it is impossible to claim that He is torturing or murdering anybody.

Which is to say your God cannot have any direct effect what-so-ever upon real entities.

Which you're clearly not going to say. You're not going to admit that your God is primarily powerless in reality.

But doing so is fine by me... since that's just the same as admitting that your dopey God is entirely imaginary.

Which just means that every single killing any human has ever performed at the direction of God, is just murder committed by their own hand and entirely of their own volition.

Who said I have a God? I have never claimed to have a God. Use some Visine to clear your bloodshot eyes to see what I claimed or did not claim. Uh..man... are you way out there or what?

No salient response... just a diversion through pedantry. Bravo. :golfclap:

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the wars, starvation and most of the suffering in this world ISN'T caused by God, it's caused by man having free will and choosing to exercise that free will by taking power, money and sex from others against their will.

It's not God that causes suffering, it's mankind.

In the case of disease and sickness? Many times it is caused by us doing things to ourselves, like smoking, drinking too much, etc., and sickness results from our free will exercise in indulging ourselves.

Does God exist? I like to believe so, because there are many strange things that have happened in my life, and I can't attribute them to anything other than God, and His watching over me, and guiding me through various choices.

One example..........................When I was 16, I got tired of living with the foster family that I'd been placed with, because they were using the checks from the foster program to finance their new house and other things, so I ran away to go talk to my case worker in Helena. After I contacted him, he said that I had to go back to Missoula, or else pay rent to stay at the runaway home.

I didn't have the cash to stay, so I reluctantly agreed to go back (even though I really didn't want to), and, as luck would have it, the bus was running early and I just barely missed it. I called my case worker back and told him I'd missed the bus, and he told me to stay at the station until I could catch the next one to Missoula.

Well............still didn't want to go back, so I asked the ticket agent how much a bus to Chicago would cost (don't know why, just the first place that jumped into my mind), and he said 300.00. Well, I only had about 30 bucks, and I asked when the next bus was leaving and where it was going. He said it was going to Great Falls (where my Grandparents lived), and the cost was 25.00.

I bought a ticket and ended up in Great Falls. Well, my Grandparents were 11 miles outside of there in another town called Vaughn, and so I started walking. About midnight, I came by the truck stop on the edge of town, and since I still had 5 bucks, I stopped in and got something to eat. As I was leaving, I got halfway across the parking lot and a VW beetle pulled up next to me and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoula, but were willing to drop me anywhere along the way. I told them Vaughn was just fine, and got out when we arrived, slept in the schoolyard that night (by this time it was around 1:00 am), and knocked on my Grandparent's door at 7:00 am, and was taken back in, where I spent my Senior year and then joined the Navy.

Now.............I really didn't want to go back to the foster family, but was told that I had to, and it just happened that I showed up at the right time to catch a bus to Great Falls, because they only ran once a day. I also found it interesting that the ONLY people to offer me a ride were people going to Missoula (where my foster family was), and that was kind of like God telling me that I had a choice, and He gave me a couple of places where I could have changed my mind.

That's only one example, there are many others. I believe that when extreme coincidences happen to me, that's God answering my questions, and asking which way I want to go.

Coincidences are how God shows me that He's listening.

According to religions, you are not to use birth control. It is up to God whether or not you have a child. Therefore, God is making these people in Africa have child after child after child, who eventually starve to death, which is a horrible slow and painful death. Do you really think that God would help you catch a ride??? Good grief. This is just one of MANY things that disgust me.

According to WHICH religion? Buddhist? Hindu? Christian? Can you cite verses from the Bible that say that birth control is against God?

No, it's not God who is making those people have child after child, it's the dogma that they are following that says such.

As far as pissing all over my experiences? Go right ahead, if it makes you feel better, but that is just one example of where God (or Higher Power) was watching out for me, there are many others.

Why would God watch over me and not someone else? Dunno.........might wanna try asking Him.