Church denies funeral to gay man

[UllysesS.Archer]

This whole funeral for a deceased gay is really a WWJD issue. I am trying to picture Jesus telling his followers that the Temple can not be profaned by the funeral of a man who was gay. In fact, I find it absolutely impossible to imagine him doing that.

But, so be it. I was a Baptist when I was growing up, and the fact that they had no room in the church for a man with dark skin was enough to convince me that organized religion is the pits.

WWJD? Good question, you won't like the answer, but you shall have it.

Luke 9: 59And He said to another, "Follow Me." But he said, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father." 60But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God."…

Let's look at verse 60
NIT translation
But Jesus told him, "Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God."


The first 'dead' that Jesus is referring too is the spiritually dead. Those that are not Christians when they die, they lived an un-Christ-like life, and Jesus would have those that were in that person's life, bury their own, He is done with them. They wanted nothing to do with Jesus, The Father or the Church, while they were alive, now Jesus wants nothing to do with them.

Yep, it's harsh, but that's the truth.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

[MENTION=42404]Vandalshandle[/MENTION] you were 100% right, I re-read the rules, and apologize to everyone for breaking the rules, that is something I try not to do.

 

[Vandalshandle]

This whole funeral for a deceased gay is really a WWJD issue. I am trying to picture Jesus telling his followers that the Temple can not be profaned by the funeral of a man who was gay. In fact, I find it absolutely impossible to imagine him doing that.

But, so be it. I was a Baptist when I was growing up, and the fact that they had no room in the church for a man with dark skin was enough to convince me that organized religion is the pits.

WWJD? Good question, you won't like the answer, but you shall have it.

Luke 9: 59And He said to another, "Follow Me." But he said, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father." 60But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God."…

Let's look at verse 60
NIT translation
But Jesus told him, "Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God."


The first 'dead' that Jesus is referring too is the spiritually dead. Those that are not Christians when they die, they lived an un-Christ-like life, and Jesus would have those that were in that person's life, bury their own, He is done with them. They wanted nothing to do with Jesus, The Father or the Church, while they were alive, now Jesus wants nothing to do with them.

Yep, it's harsh, but that's the truth.

I understand perfectly well that fundamentalists believe that Jesus spoke in code, and that only they can interpret it as to what he really meant. Still, I often wonder just why it was that it was necessary for Jesus to go around in circles, instead of just telling it like it is. After all, almost no one was educated in those days, and we have no reason to believe that even Jesus could read and write. Still, it is comforting to know that there is someone who can tell us what he REALLY meant....

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

This whole funeral for a deceased gay is really a WWJD issue. I am trying to picture Jesus telling his followers that the Temple can not be profaned by the funeral of a man who was gay. In fact, I find it absolutely impossible to imagine him doing that.

But, so be it. I was a Baptist when I was growing up, and the fact that they had no room in the church for a man with dark skin was enough to convince me that organized religion is the pits.

WWJD? Good question, you won't like the answer, but you shall have it.

Luke 9: 59And He said to another, "Follow Me." But he said, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father." 60But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God."…

Let's look at verse 60
NIT translation
But Jesus told him, "Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God."


The first 'dead' that Jesus is referring too is the spiritually dead. Those that are not Christians when they die, they lived an un-Christ-like life, and Jesus would have those that were in that person's life, bury their own, He is done with them. They wanted nothing to do with Jesus, The Father or the Church, while they were alive, now Jesus wants nothing to do with them.

Yep, it's harsh, but that's the truth.

I understand perfectly well that fundamentalists believe that Jesus spoke in code, and that only they can interpret it as to what he really meant. Still, I often wonder just why it was that it was necessary for Jesus to go around in circles, instead of just telling it like it is. After all, almost no one was educated in those days, and we have no reason to believe that even Jesus could read and write. Still, it is comforting to know that there is someone who can tell us what he REALLY meant....

The Bible will reveal everything, if you know how to look, and some of what It says, I wish I had never discovered. It will answer every question, though some questions are best left unasked.

 

[Mertex]

TAMPA, FL (WFLA) - Julie Atwood was standing at her son's casket when the phone rang. The church where her son's funeral was scheduled to be held the next day decided to abruptly cancel the service, after the pastor learned the deceased was gay and his obituary listed a surviving "husband."

Atwood said she was told it would be "blasphemous" to hold the services at the church because her son, Julion Evans, 42, was gay.

He says the obituary named him as "husband," and that their marriage was no secret.

But when the obituary published in the local newspaper, everything changed.

T.W. Jenkins, pastor at New Hope says was not aware of that Evans had a husband or was gay until members of his congregation saw the obit and called to complain. They did not think it was right to have the funeral at their church.

Jenkins said his church preaches against gay marriage.

"Based on our preaching of the scripture, we would have been in error to allow the service in our church," Jenkins said. "I'm not trying to condemn anyone's lifestyle, but at the same time, I am a man of God, and I have to stand up for my principles."

Church denies funeral to gay man - WRCBtv.com | Chattanooga News, Weather & Sports

I guess since the church preaches against gay marriage, it would seem kind of going against their own rules to hold a funeral or any other kind of function for someone that openly declares themselves gay. Most Christian churches are anti-homosexuality and will probably agree with what this church did.

 

[Mertex]

No REAL Christian would agree to this. The preacher and the church are going against the teachings of Jesus.

I also wonder why any gay Christian would attend fake church like this one.

Too bad there's no such thing as "god" cuz if there was, that slimy preacher is going to hell and wil be rooming with other slime - like gizmo.

That's not necessarily true. As a Christian I want all rights (government) to be afforded everyone regardless of their lifestyle (as long as it isn't criminal)....but churches are not under government rules as to what they accept or don't accept, and if that church preaches against homo-sexuality, it doesn't matter whether someone in the congregation doesn't agree with it, that is what that church represents and it would be hypocrisy if they went against their own rules.

Surely the young man knew the church was anti-homosexuality and why he wanted to be part of it being that he was gay is strange. I personally wouldn't belong to a church, or organization that didn't like me for who I was.

 

[Mertex]

The church has every right to refuse. However, to consider the Baptist Missionary churches that I have known in the south as acting in Christian charity would be error. The officials of the church are not acting as their and my Lord and Savior would wish.

For shame.

You should get to know Jesus better, and make Him your Lord. For obviously, He is not.

From your statement, and others I have seen posted by you, I would assume Lucifer to be your lord, if you actually have one.

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

 

[Politico]

TAMPA, FL (WFLA) - Julie Atwood was standing at her son's casket when the phone rang. The church where her son's funeral was scheduled to be held the next day decided to abruptly cancel the service, after the pastor learned the deceased was gay and his obituary listed a surviving "husband."

Atwood said she was told it would be "blasphemous" to hold the services at the church because her son, Julion Evans, 42, was gay.

He says the obituary named him as "husband," and that their marriage was no secret.

But when the obituary published in the local newspaper, everything changed.

T.W. Jenkins, pastor at New Hope says was not aware of that Evans had a husband or was gay until members of his congregation saw the obit and called to complain. They did not think it was right to have the funeral at their church.

Jenkins said his church preaches against gay marriage.

"Based on our preaching of the scripture, we would have been in error to allow the service in our church," Jenkins said. "I'm not trying to condemn anyone's lifestyle, but at the same time, I am a man of God, and I have to stand up for my principles."

Church denies funeral to gay man - WRCBtv.com | Chattanooga News, Weather & Sports

They should have checked.

That.

 

[ninja007]

This whole funeral for a deceased gay is really a WWJD issue. I am trying to picture Jesus telling his followers that the Temple can not be profaned by the funeral of a man who was gay. In fact, I find it absolutely impossible to imagine him doing that.

But, so be it. I was a Baptist when I was growing up, and the fact that they had no room in the church for a man with dark skin was enough to convince me that organized religion is the pits.

WWJD? Good question, you won't like the answer, but you shall have it.

Luke 9: 59And He said to another, "Follow Me." But he said, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father." 60But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God."…

Let's look at verse 60
NIT translation
But Jesus told him, "Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God."


The first 'dead' that Jesus is referring too is the spiritually dead. Those that are not Christians when they die, they lived an un-Christ-like life, and Jesus would have those that were in that person's life, bury their own, He is done with them. They wanted nothing to do with Jesus, The Father or the Church, while they were alive, now Jesus wants nothing to do with them.

Yep, it's harsh, but that's the truth.

already posted these verses

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The church has every right to refuse. However, to consider the Baptist Missionary churches that I have known in the south as acting in Christian charity would be error. The officials of the church are not acting as their and my Lord and Savior would wish.

For shame.

You should get to know Jesus better, and make Him your Lord. For obviously, He is not.

From your statement, and others I have seen posted by you, I would assume Lucifer to be your lord, if you actually have one.

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

Actually, judging someone who claims to be a Christian is demanded of other Christians.

1 Corinthians 5: …11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES

And Jesus tells us how to judge

John 7:24"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

Now, this gives Christians the right to judge others who call themselves Christian, and it is something that has been abandoned, but Jesus does expect us to keep His Church as pure as possible, and without pretenders, when we find them.

Christians do not have the right to pass judgment on unbelievers, that is reserved for God.

Go back to Jake's past posts, read some of them, you will soon realize, he is in no way a Christian, he is at best an atheist with an agenda, and at worst, a false prophet.

 

[ninja007]

to the OP. Your id says "sunni man". If this sunni is Islam? then your post goes against your religion as you are defending gays.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The church has every right to refuse. However, to consider the Baptist Missionary churches that I have known in the south as acting in Christian charity would be error. The officials of the church are not acting as their and my Lord and Savior would wish.

For shame.

You should get to know Jesus better, and make Him your Lord. For obviously, He is not.

From your statement, and others I have seen posted by you, I would assume Lucifer to be your lord, if you actually have one.

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You should get to know Jesus better, and make Him your Lord. For obviously, He is not.

From your statement, and others I have seen posted by you, I would assume Lucifer to be your lord, if you actually have one.

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

I have to admit that you have a pretty good deal. You are a sinner, but, you have the right to denounce other sinners. Not only that, you are a "saved sinner', who has the right to judge your fellow man, who are, in fact, no different than you, since all men are sinners. Presumably, since I am not "saved" according to your belief's, that makes me an unrepentant sinner, with no redeeming salvation at all, so I can be judged, your god can condemn me, and I will spend eternity in hell, while you will spend eternity in heaven. The whole thing makes me want to send money to Pat Robertson, shout "Halleluiah!", and handle serpents....

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

I have to admit that you have a pretty good deal. You are a sinner, but, you have the right to denounce other sinners. Not only that, you are a "saved sinner', who has the right to judge your fellow man, who are, in fact, no different than you, since all men are sinners. Presumably, since I am not "saved" according to your belief's, that makes me an unrepentant sinner, with no redeeming salvation at all, so I can be judged, your god can condemn me, and I will spend eternity in hell, while you will spend eternity in heaven. The whole thing makes me want to send money to Pat Robertson, shout "Halleluiah!", and handle serpents....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M]Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Bedlam - YouTube[/ame]

I have the right to judge others who lay claim to Christ. I have no right to judge you, Vandal, because you have said you are not a Christian. Only those who claim to be a part of Christ's Church.

 

[ninja007]

Copeland and his friends are known as "word faith" preachers. All they talk about is money and God is your butler- a false doctrine. I was a word faither myself before I became stronger in Christ.

 

[Andylusion]

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

I have to admit that you have a pretty good deal. You are a sinner, but, you have the right to denounce other sinners. Not only that, you are a "saved sinner', who has the right to judge your fellow man, who are, in fact, no different than you, since all men are sinners. Presumably, since I am not "saved" according to your belief's, that makes me an unrepentant sinner, with no redeeming salvation at all, so I can be judged, your god can condemn me, and I will spend eternity in hell, while you will spend eternity in heaven. The whole thing makes me want to send money to Pat Robertson, shout "Halleluiah!", and handle serpents....


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M]Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Bedlam - YouTube[/ame]

I have the right to judge others who lay claim to Christ. I have no right to judge you, Vandal, because you have said you are not a Christian. Only those who claim to be a part of Christ's Church.

Exactly. Good answer.

 

[Andylusion]

Jesus glances over to the robber crucified next to him, "Your sins are forgiven." Then he whispers down to his followers, "Don't bury this guy with me okay?"

I seriously doubt that happened.

You missed the part where he wanted to be forgiven.

Name one person in the Bible that refused to be forgiven, and rejected Jesus, that Jesus said 'your sins are forgiven'?

There was another dude on the other cross, and Jesus didn't say that to him, did he?

Never happened.

If the dude had asked for forgiveness for his sins, if he had repented, and rejected his evil ways, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would FIRST in line with a shovel to help bury the man at his death.

Instead he spent his whole life living in his sin, rejecting the teachings of the Bible, and hid it to his death, and the church only found out because it was in the news paper.

No. Go find someone else to bury him. He lied, and rejected the faith he pretended to believe his whole life, and you want his church to pretend he was wonderful?

That would be like some girl having her husband die, and then find out in the papers that he had been carrying on affairs with other women for the last 40 years. You think that might change the Eulogy and who attends just a tad? Ya... I should say so. You find out your family and marriage was a complete lie... it might cause a few problems at the funeral. Same difference.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The greatest of the heresies of modern day evangelicalism and fundamentalism assume the Bible is literal, only they can interpret it correctly, and Pharisaical build a fence around it. Ulysses, Androw, and JimBowie are heretical Pharisees of our day. God warned about them. They attempt to keep God in a box like a frog.

 

[Andylusion]

The greatest of the heresies of modern day evangelicalism and fundamentalism assume the Bible is literal, only they can interpret it correctly, and Pharisaical build a fence around it. Ulysses, Androw, and JimBowie are heretical Pharisees of our day. God warned about them. They attempt to keep God in a box like a frog.

You don't even see how your argument contradicts itself. That's odd.

Tell me this.... is it possible to have a heresy of a believe system that is not literal?

If you have a belief system that is entirely based on figurative interpretation.... can you even have a heresy?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The greatest of the heresies of modern day evangelicalism and fundamentalism assume the Bible is literal, only they can interpret it correctly, and Pharisaical build a fence around it. Ulysses, Androw, and JimBowie are heretical Pharisees of our day. God warned about them. They attempt to keep God in a box like a frog.

You don't even see how your argument contradicts itself. That's odd.

Tell me this.... is it possible to have a heresy of a believe system that is not literal?

If you have a belief system that is entirely based on figurative interpretation.... can you even have a heresy?

Using your own tools against you is contradictory is an odd statement. Armies use similar tools against one another. I am using your words to show that you preach hate instead of love, and that you serve demonic rather than angelic forces.